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Around the NHL (Part XXXIX): (1/9: Leafs fire Brian Burke as GM; Dave Nonis steps in)

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Old
10-24-2012, 08:48 PM
  #451
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Originally Posted by Kreiders Underwear View Post
You do realize that I said, from a business standpoint, correct? Where am I talking about Bettman or the $3.3 billion NHL? I'm talking about the front office of the Islanders. They now have 14,500 seats and will charge more for them for a team that is below average. That's not a way to make money.

As a huge hockey fan, I definitely don't care about what's good for hockey. Yup, you hit it on the head! Jesus...

And to the bolded, those are all based on "ifs". First off, the Isles will never be marketed like the Nets. If you'll remember, this is the United States of Basketball, Football, and Baseball. Secondly, what makes you think a free agent would want to come to the Islanders just because they're in Brooklyn? Who gives a **** that they're in Brooklyn if they aren't a good team? Parise didn't just go home to Minnesota, he joined a team full of great players and brought Suter with him. And when it comes to money and ownership, the Islanders can't compete with the likes of the Rangers, Bruins, Penguins, etc... So I'm sorry, but that's a big "if", a big "if" that you don't base a huge change of scenery off of.

I'm assuming by your username, that you are an Islander fan. I'm sorry that I offended you with my honest thought about how going to Brooklyn to an arena that seats 14,500 people is a bad idea. But maybe, just maybe, you ignored the 2nd part of my post.
I'm an Islander fan, and I was slightly offended. Which, obviously, you wouldn't care about (I wouldn't either lol) but not at the comment itself. I'm more offended by the (un)willingness to see the growth and potential of the deal and business. The Islanders are likely going to reinvent themselves as the years pass.

I, not for a minute, think something like the Barclays Center, with Ratner and Jay-Z, would associate themselves with a tragic mess. I have to believe that Wang is committed to making this a potential home run. That means investing in the team immediatly for long term payoff.

No matter how you slice it, the Islanders just scored a deal to play in a state of the art arena and the one thing they desperately need is the help of players not drafted through the system. This allows them to readily explore those options.

You root for a home run franchise and a lot of our troubles wouldn't fit in a 1,000 page novel. Hopefully, one day, the Islanders can relate to the Rangers' fans in the way they appreciate the comfort of watching a game in such a wonderful environment. We deserve that at least. In this day and age, it is a travesty not to be able to commit such money into a sports team and not watch them in a spectacular environment.

Long Island, and Nassau County specifically, are moving completely and utterly backwards. I mean look at the Coliseum for christs sake. The Islanders never chose to be stuck in this lease and have to play out their days in such a decrepit mess. Where is the accountability by politicians to invest tax payers money wisely? Instead, they spun it in a negative light, and now they are out 20 million dollars in revenue a year and small businesses around the Coliseum suffer. You know, small business, like so many politicians say they are for.

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10-24-2012, 08:48 PM
  #452
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10-24-2012, 08:49 PM
  #453
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Average price of almost 50? That's ********. I could get seats in the second row for under 100$ against the Rangers.
Start high. Basic rules of marketing.

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10-24-2012, 08:50 PM
  #454
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I'm an Islander fan, and I was slightly offended. Which, obviously, you wouldn't care about (I wouldn't either lol) but not at the comment itself. I'm more offended by the (un)willingness to see the growth and potential of the deal and business. The Islanders are likely going to reinvent themselves as the years pass.

I, not for a minute, think something like the Barclays Center, with Ratner and Jay-Z, would associate themselves with a tragic mess. I have to believe that Wang is committed to making this a potential home run. That means investing in the team immediatly for long term payoff.

No matter how you slice it, the Islanders just scored a deal to play in a state of the art arena and the one thing they desperately need is the help of players not drafted through the system. This allows them to readily explore those options.

You root for a home run franchise and a lot of our troubles wouldn't fit in a 1,000 page novel. Hopefully, one day, the Islanders can relate to the Rangers' fans in the way they appreciate the comfort of watching a game in such a wonderful environment. We deserve that at least.
I understand everything you are saying, and I (somehow) sympathize with you. But I'm just giving my honest opinion. It's a stupid move from a business standpoint because of the arena, not because of the location. 14,500 seats and inflated ticket prices for a sub-par hockey team (least popular sport in the country besides soccer) is not a plan for success, IMO.

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10-24-2012, 08:52 PM
  #455
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Capacity isn't a problem right now, short term it's a fantastic move for isles. But I agree that 25 years is short sighted. You'd hope with their young talent and increased revenue that they will get better and fan base will grow over the years

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10-24-2012, 09:05 PM
  #456
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I think I'm the first to bring this up, if someone did before and I overlooked it, no insult intended...

Do the Rangers have the right to demand compensation from the Isles for entering their territory? And if so, what could that be?
The Islanders were already in the Rangers territory.

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10-24-2012, 09:09 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Kreiders Underwear View Post
I understand everything you are saying, and I (somehow) sympathize with you. But I'm just giving my honest opinion. It's a stupid move from a business standpoint because of the arena, not because of the location. 14,500 seats and inflated ticket prices for a sub-par hockey team (least popular sport in the country besides soccer) is not a plan for success, IMO.
You don't think players would want to sign with a team that just got a brand-new arena? You don't think that free agents refused to sign with the Islanders because of their terribly old arena, and uncertainty if the team will move or not?

Now that they got a new arena, and locked into a great city for the next 25 years, free agents will come.

Players want to feel comfortable, and that's incredibly hard in a ****** arena.

And to the poster who asked before, the Islanders don't have to give the Rangers anything for the move. Their original agreement, allowing them to play on LI, said that they can move anywhere on Long Island, including Brooklyn and Queens.

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10-24-2012, 09:35 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by IslesBeBack View Post
Long Island, and Nassau County specifically, are moving completely and utterly backwards. I mean look at the Coliseum for christs sake. The Islanders never chose to be stuck in this lease and have to play out their days in such a decrepit mess. Where is the accountability by politicians to invest tax payers money wisely? Instead, they spun it in a negative light, and now they are out 20 million dollars in revenue a year and small businesses around the Coliseum suffer. You know, small business, like so many politicians say they are for.
Where is the law that says cash poor governments have to build multimillion dollar toys for billionaire sports team owners? Wang has plenty of money. He could've built the Islanders a new building any time he wanted if he hadn't tried to bundle into that massive lighthouse project. Now he's going into a building he doesn't own so he won't get any money from concessions (and obviously not parking since it doesn't have a lot). Plus, he's taking the team way out of the reach of the fanbase in Suffolk County. Coming to Brooklyn short term made sense. Coming for 25 years doesn't.


Last edited by Zil: 10-25-2012 at 03:26 AM.
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Old
10-24-2012, 10:06 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by Kreiders Underwear View Post
I understand everything you are saying, and I (somehow) sympathize with you. But I'm just giving my honest opinion. It's a stupid move from a business standpoint because of the arena, not because of the location. 14,500 seats and inflated ticket prices for a sub-par hockey team (least popular sport in the country besides soccer) is not a plan for success, IMO.
You've made it abundantly clear you're attempting to look at this from strictly a business standpoint. You've also made it abundantly clear that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

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10-24-2012, 10:20 PM
  #460
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Haven't been around for a while but had to check in after hearing this news. Didn't either Bettman or Wang realize that the "horseshoe" arena configuration doomed the Coyotes at America West and has made several other NBA arenas (i.e. Seattle) impossible for hockey. At best 12,000 unobstructed view seats. Not only will you lose one end of the arena but parts of the upper deck will be obstructed view. Colossal mistake.

Would have made a ton of sense if arena was configured properly for hockey.

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10-24-2012, 10:56 PM
  #461
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Brooklyn and Queens were founded and incorporated before Long Island was. Just because BK and Queens are physically on an island, it doesn't mean they're part of Long Island.
You're correct. Actually, way back in the day (talking before the Revolution), Brooklyn was the political capital of Long Island and all official business was conducted there.

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10-24-2012, 11:02 PM
  #462
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You're right about that, but I really don't expect too many Brooklyn Rangers fans such as myself to switch allegiance, since I feel hockey fans in general are more a die-hard collective since it's a niche sport.

You're probably right about the tickets, though. Sadly.
The thing is there are potentially a lot of hockey fans who immigrated to NYC (and settled in Brooklyn) who don't have deep Ranger roots. They're Ranger fans by default and might very well end up rooting for the team closest to (their new) home. Renaming the team the Coney Islanders (as someone suggested) would play really, really well.

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10-24-2012, 11:11 PM
  #463
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Where was this (genuinely curious). I've never seen a hamburger with anything except beef in it...

On topic (yet still Australian focused) I always find it interesting that there is so much concern over how much support teams in NYC can get when two of them are close to each other. The city and surrounds are freaking huge, how hard can it be to find 15000 people to attend an event.

While I know ticket costs are (vastly) different, my home town with a metro population of approx 3.3m has 2 x soccer teams 2 x rugby teams (different codes) and 10 x aussie footy teams (more than half the national league). All of them play in the top league in the country and they all manage to co-exist rather peacefully. Surely 3 hockey teams in the NYC area isn't a massive issue?
In India McDonalds only sells burgers made of lamb (since cows are sacred).

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Old
10-24-2012, 11:15 PM
  #464
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In India McDonalds only sells burgers made of lamb (since cows are sacred).
They are ****ing delicious, too.

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10-24-2012, 11:37 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by IslesBeBack View Post
I'm an Islander fan, and I was slightly offended. Which, obviously, you wouldn't care about (I wouldn't either lol) but not at the comment itself. I'm more offended by the (un)willingness to see the growth and potential of the deal and business. The Islanders are likely going to reinvent themselves as the years pass.

I, not for a minute, think something like the Barclays Center, with Ratner and Jay-Z, would associate themselves with a tragic mess. I have to believe that Wang is committed to making this a potential home run. That means investing in the team immediatly for long term payoff.

No matter how you slice it, the Islanders just scored a deal to play in a state of the art arena and the one thing they desperately need is the help of players not drafted through the system. This allows them to readily explore those options.

You root for a home run franchise and a lot of our troubles wouldn't fit in a 1,000 page novel. Hopefully, one day, the Islanders can relate to the Rangers' fans in the way they appreciate the comfort of watching a game in such a wonderful environment. We deserve that at least. In this day and age, it is a travesty not to be able to commit such money into a sports team and not watch them in a spectacular environment.

Long Island, and Nassau County specifically, are moving completely and utterly backwards. I mean look at the Coliseum for christs sake. The Islanders never chose to be stuck in this lease and have to play out their days in such a decrepit mess. Where is the accountability by politicians to invest tax payers money wisely? Instead, they spun it in a negative light, and now they are out 20 million dollars in revenue a year and small businesses around the Coliseum suffer. You know, small business, like so many politicians say they are for.
What's really interesting is that back when there were three major league baseball teams, while Brooklyn (according to my father who grew up a die-hard Dodger fan) was mostly Dodger territory, Giant fans were tolerated (even though they were in the National League too) while Yankee fans were forced to convert (or at least stop wearing anything related to the Yankees) if they moved into Brooklyn.

I don't know how many current fans will give up rooting for the Isles if and when they move into Brooklyn. But I do know there is plenty of room for more than just Rangers fans in a City that has close to 2.5 million people. They may not come from families who are die-hard Ranger fans but they are die-hard Brooklynites. I probably will never be able to switch (my Ranger roots go back to my grandfather who attended his first Ranger game back in 1926), but there are plenty more who don't have those kind of roots. The only real question in my mind is whether the arena can ever be set up to accommodate hockey properly.

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10-25-2012, 12:16 AM
  #466
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What's really interesting is that back when there were three major league baseball teams, while Brooklyn (according to my father who grew up a die-hard Dodger fan) was mostly Dodger territory, Giant fans were tolerated (even though they were in the National League too) while Yankee fans were forced to convert (or at least stop wearing anything related to the Yankees) if they moved into Brooklyn.

I don't know how many current fans will give up rooting for the Isles if and when they move into Brooklyn. But I do know there is plenty of room for more than just Rangers fans in a City that has close to 2.5 million people. They may not come from families who are die-hard Ranger fans but they are die-hard Brooklynites. I probably will never be able to switch (my Ranger roots go back to my grandfather who attended his first Ranger game back in 1926), but there are plenty more who don't have those kind of roots. The only real question in my mind is whether the arena can ever be set up to accommodate hockey properly.
I agree with this totally.

With all the hipsters continuing to pour into Brooklyn, they will likely help make up whatever slack the die-hard Brooklynites don't as long as the promotion blitz leading up to the move is good.

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10-25-2012, 12:28 AM
  #467
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I agree with this totally.

With all the hipsters continuing to pour into Brooklyn, they will likely help make up whatever slack the die-hard Brooklynites don't as long as the promotion blitz leading up to the move is good.
Honestly, I'm not thinking about the hipsters flooding Brooklyn, I'm thinking about all the people who have moved to Brooklyn over the last 30+ years from the (now former) Soviet Union.

Someone else came up with the name, but the Coney Islanders makes real sense. You keep the Islander and add something everyone associates with Brooklyn. Best of both worlds.

And here's a (tongue in cheek) survey of possible names for the team:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/25/sp...sing.html?_r=0

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10-25-2012, 07:50 AM
  #468
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I love the hipster jokes, but there are a ton of teams that could be said for with the hipsters. The makeup of hipsters in Brooklyn is probably no different than the makeup most other places.

Difference is, Wburg is ground zero, but places like Wicker Park in Chicago and Northern Liberties in Philly are strong contenders too. Vancouver, Montreal, Boston, Minnesota, the list goes on

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10-25-2012, 08:02 AM
  #469
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Forgive my ignorance on this, but what the heck is a "Hipster"?

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10-25-2012, 08:09 AM
  #470
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Forgive my ignorance on this, but what the heck is a "Hipster"?

Where you livin? if you dont mind. Id probably be able to tell you where you can find some.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...JoPU0gHyiYHYDg

Always enjoyed Cracked's take. Its spot on.

http://www.cracked.com/funny-4573-hipster/

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10-25-2012, 08:18 AM
  #471
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There was once a hockey team that was toiling in the area, that felt if they attempted to appeal to the borough of Brooklyn that it would help grow a new fan base. It too, was a last ditch effort.

That team was the New York Americans.

And while the circumstances are different, I believe the intent is the same and the outcome has a high probability of being the same.

What ended up happening was; they soon found out that hockey fans in Brooklyn were already Rangers fans. And they were still selling a mediocre product.

The Amerks were still playing in Madison Square Garden, and the Islanders legitimately will be playing in Brooklyn. However the same problem remains. No Rangers fan is going to convert to an Islanders fan. Chances are those Rangers fans's children will be raised as Rangers fans. They are hoping there will be fresh fans to manifest. Problem is how many people are there eager to become hockey fans in Brooklyn? In inner cities?

Low capacity arena, high ticket prices. Commute for east-islanders will be more difficult. The team is now what, 5 miles, if that, from MSG, the heart of Rangers territory.

I don't see this lasting the 25 years they hope it will.

You can't compare a niche sport like hockey to baseball and the Giants, Dodgers, Yankees.

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10-25-2012, 08:21 AM
  #472
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Originally Posted by AceintheSpace View Post
Where you livin? if you dont mind. Id probably be able to tell you where you can find some.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...JoPU0gHyiYHYDg

Always enjoyed Cracked's take. Its spot on.

http://www.cracked.com/funny-4573-hipster/
Ohhh LOL. Yea I've seen these folks. Just go to a mall they're there.

People really think these types are interested in sports, much less hockey? They're more into music. I don't see these folk turning into Islanders fans... but that's just me.

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10-25-2012, 08:25 AM
  #473
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Ohhh LOL. Yea I've seen these folks. Just go to a mall they're there.

People really think these types are interested in sports, much less hockey? They're more into music. I don't see these folk turning into Islanders fans... but that's just me.
They'll be Islanders fans as long as the Islanders suck. When the Islanders become respectable once again and regular folks start coming to the games, the hipsters will deem it uncool and stop supporting the team.

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10-25-2012, 08:55 AM
  #474
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Ah the Barclays Center. Catch a whiff. Not a surprise. That Pacific Street subway station which is now named after the arena has a heavy police presence for a reason.

Quote:
The borough’s newest treasure might have 456 toilets, but apparently that’s not enough for some pee-brained patrons.

Residents who tend to the Brooklyn Bears Community Garden across the street from Barclays Center say patrons of the newly-opened arena are using their green oasis, and the blocks surrounding it, as a public urinal.

“The stench that was left behind was extremely overwhelming,” said Michelle, a dedicated member of the Brooklyn Bears Community Garden on Pacific St., who asked her last name be withheld.

On the arena’s opening night, Michelle says she and other concerned Brooklyn Bears members watched as concertgoers relieved themselves along a stretch of the garden and in doorways behind a nearby Modell’s sporting goods store.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...#ixzz2AJno4FD0

Quote:
Go, Team Yellow!

It hasn't been three weeks since the Barclays Center opened and Park Slopers have already found something to complain about: Sports fans who wizz willy-nilly all over the stadium area. Hold on – was that edgy rust architecture not intentional?

Residents say that stadiumgoers are turning the Slope into a "cesspool" by peeing on sidewalks and a community garden, according to this heavily investigated story from DNAinfo. (Who knew so many people were afraid to go on the record about public urination?) The urine trouble was hotly discussed during a quality-of-life meeting this week between neighbors and Barclays reps, and two city councilmembers say their offices are swamped with complaints. Come on, people, what is wrong with bathrooms inside the stadium? (Oh, right.)
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/nei...rinebowl/3636/

The hipsters are the trendy arty types who live in areas which were persona non grata for white people not that long ago. They don't like hockey or sports. They like to paint. They like to read the NY Times from cover to cover on a Sunday drinking their stupid yuppy coffee.

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10-25-2012, 09:43 AM
  #475
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They move there for street cred.

Have no interest in sports.

Theyd rather cross their legs and drink coffee talking about what wall to hang their paintings on or their Beach House vinyls.


They also like to shave half of their heads..

Quote:
While most well adjusted members of society view music as an enjoyable addendum to life, perhaps a distraction or even a hobby, hipsters know that music is serious business. Having been picked on since a very young age by those who found their talents lay in athletics, they decided the ideal place to exercise influence was in the fields of listening to stuff and putting on clothes.

Read more: Hipster | Cracked.com http://www.cracked.com/funny-4573-hi...#ixzz2AK2hAY5C

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