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Ovi can't even light up the KHL, can we finally admit that he's past his prime?

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Old
10-24-2012, 05:08 PM
  #101
Thesensation19
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Idk if we have seen the last of him and his past greatness.

He has def become more defensively reliable in the full game.

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10-24-2012, 05:30 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by spot View Post
Linus Omark has played 15games in the swiss league and has scored 22pts!!!!
/thread
Obviously, Edmonton gave up on him too early...

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10-24-2012, 06:17 PM
  #103
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I wouldn't write anyone off as "post-prime" at the age of 27. The KHL is completely different and the Capitals were down in scoring across the board. I don't know if Ovechkin can re-capture his explosiveness that he once possessed, but there is still a lot of hockey in him and we've seen players dip and re-emerge before.
I don't know, the following thread makes a pretty case. Perhaps, Ovi's decline is simply faster.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1238041

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Old
10-24-2012, 06:25 PM
  #104
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IMO, he isnt the greatest passer, he gets tunnel vision and teams have keyed in on him.

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10-24-2012, 06:35 PM
  #105
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Ovechkin's gonna start roaring back!

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10-24-2012, 06:43 PM
  #106
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Ovechkin scores 38 goals last year and he's washed up. Get real.

The NHL is a copycat league. A few teams had success playing grind em out defensive styles, and the Capitals ran into one of those teams (and one of the best goaltending performances in a long time) in 2010 and lost. So they did the copycat thing and completely scrapped their play style, deciding to play a grinder oriented two way game so that...Backstrom, Semin, Green, and Ovechkin could be two way guys. Jaroslav Halak doesn't get hot that year and we're probably not having this conversation. I just think it's a bit early to call a guy who's scored more than 30 goals every season in his career, and only scored less than 40 twice over the hill. No, he won't score 65 goals again, but it's ridiculous to call him past his prime.

Inb4 "scorers peak at 24" statistical analysis - See "no he won't score 65 goals again".

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Old
10-24-2012, 06:45 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UCantHandleMyRiddum View Post
Ovechkin: 13GP 6G 8A 14PTS (On 1 of the best teams in the league)
Malkin: 13GP 5G 12A 17PTS (On a bubble Team)
Kovy: 11GP 7G 13A 20PTS +12
Radulov: 19Gp 8G 16A 24PTS

I'm not saying that Ovi sucks, I'm just saying that he's clearly a shadow of his former self. Prime Ovi would have about 11 goals right now.
Ovi has lots of money, and no motivation...loads of talent, but seemingly lazy these days...

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Old
10-24-2012, 06:47 PM
  #108
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I'll put it this way. I am disappointed by Ovechkin. He is not the same.

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Old
10-24-2012, 07:55 PM
  #109
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I'll admit to being harsh on Ovi in the past, but he's hardly struggling over there. He's a two point game away from being in the top 10 PPG players in the league, and leads his team in scoring despite not having played as many games (to the best of my quick eliteprospects sleuthing ability). Team seems to be doing just fine (and are defending champs), but we'll see what kind of level he personally brings if/when he comes back to the NHL.

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10-24-2012, 08:01 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
Ovechkin scores 38 goals last year and he's washed up. Get real.

The NHL is a copycat league. A few teams had success playing grind em out defensive styles, and the Capitals ran into one of those teams (and one of the best goaltending performances in a long time) in 2010 and lost. So they did the copycat thing and completely scrapped their play style, deciding to play a grinder oriented two way game so that...Backstrom, Semin, Green, and Ovechkin could be two way guys. Jaroslav Halak doesn't get hot that year and we're probably not having this conversation. I just think it's a bit early to call a guy who's scored more than 30 goals every season in his career, and only scored less than 40 twice over the hill. No, he won't score 65 goals again, but it's ridiculous to call him past his prime.

Inb4 "scorers peak at 24" statistical analysis - See "no he won't score 65 goals again".
Absolutely ****ing yeah. You ran into an anomaly in that Halak performance, personally I want the offensive free going juggernaut capitals back, just more fun to watch. Defence doesn't always win championships, Pens won without that good D.

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Old
10-24-2012, 08:32 PM
  #111
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Prime usually goes to late 20s/early 30s so its a stretch.

Id say hes got two more years left in his prime.

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Old
10-24-2012, 09:38 PM
  #112
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It will be hard for Ovi to get back to scoring 65 goals and he may never reach that point again because Ovi's early career was historically good. That said saying he is out of his prime is ridiculous especially based off KHL stats. I could still see Ovi score 50 goals again and i honestly hope Ovi proves me wrong and maybe score 60+ again if he adapts his game for his declining explosiveness.

Honest question to the OP, have you've seen any Dynamo Moscow games this year? I have seen most of their games and if you see the style of Dynamo Moscow plays you will see why it is one of the factors of Ovi's lower scoring output. I hope some of our Russian posters will chime in as well!

That being said Ovi has been playing really physical in the KHL and his back checking is actually showing improvement. The effort is there but just watch the way Dynamo plays...

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Old
10-24-2012, 09:49 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UCantHandleMyRiddum View Post
Ovechkin: 13GP 6G 8A 14PTS (On 1 of the best teams in the league)
Malkin: 13GP 5G 12A 17PTS (On a bubble Team)
Kovy: 11GP 7G 13A 20PTS +12
Radulov: 19Gp 8G 16A 24PTS

I'm not saying that Ovi sucks, I'm just saying that he's clearly a shadow of his former self. Prime Ovi would have about 11 goals right now.
Prime is 27-32 so Ovie isn't past his prime.

Somethign sure is wrong with him though. Must have hurt himself cashing those huge paychecks.

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Old
10-24-2012, 10:07 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Prime is 27-32 so Ovie isn't past his prime.

Somethign sure is wrong with him though. Must have hurt himself cashing those huge paychecks.
Goal scoring prime is historically lower than 27

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Old
10-24-2012, 10:19 PM
  #115
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Guys, guys, guys... the reason Ovechkin isn't doing so well anymore is because he switched from CCM to Bauer! Can't you see??

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Old
10-24-2012, 10:26 PM
  #116
Mr Kanadensisk
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Goal scoring prime is historically lower than 27
I think it is more like 25.

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10-24-2012, 11:17 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by robdicks View Post
past his prime? haha what? I dislike Ovechkin as much as the next guy but he just turned 27.

He seems to have lost a passion for the game that he once had, but a 40 game stretch will change opinions around here

Actually it seems most players these days peak earlier. I think Ovy's best days ARE behind him. Not to say he wont still be very good but his 55+ goal days are gone IMO.
Vincent L is another example of a great player that faded to good pretty early. I think the guys that have great talent start earler and maybe lose a little of their drive earlier.

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10-24-2012, 11:35 PM
  #118
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Look at a guy like Brett Hull, for instance. He was never a great all-around player (a pure goalscorer) but managed to put up massive numbers, scoring at a 70-90 goal pace when he was 24-27. Soon after that, his peak faded away and he put up around 30-40 goals for the rest of his career. Many goalscorers string together a few career seasons and fail to reach the promise they showed in earlier years.

Combine that with the fact that Ovechkin isn't exactly a "smart" player. He got by on his high-end skill and "bull in a china shop"-style. As the game changes and players adapt to his style, he's failed to adapt his game.

And, on top of all that, I think he's lost the spark he had when he broke into the league.

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10-25-2012, 10:37 AM
  #119
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It has nothing to do with prime ovie or old ovie. Ovie is still young. It has to do with Mature Ovie vs Irresponsible Ovie. Ive heard stories about the guy Im not aloud to post here.

Thats half his battle IMO, the other half lies in his predictability. After a while goalies are going to catch on. Ovechkin took advantage of a move/shot nobody used for a long time, a season or 2 of it everyone caught on now hes back to being an above average player. Anyone who watched the games knew Ovechkin was not in Crosbys realm or even the realm his numbers made it look like he was in.

It comes down to - He was good at catching goalies off gaurd. Now, he has the reputation as the guy who catches goalies off gaurd, so they dont get caught off gaurd by him because they know his game. Simple.

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10-25-2012, 11:31 AM
  #120
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Thats half his battle IMO, the other half lies in his predictability. After a while goalies are going to catch on. Ovechkin took advantage of a move/shot nobody used for a long time, a season or 2 of it everyone caught on now hes back to being an above average player. Anyone who watched the games knew Ovechkin was not in Crosbys realm or even the realm his numbers made it look like he was in.
I've been arguing this with OV fans since he came into the league but was passed-off as a homer Penguins fan (even though I'm a Canucks fan). Ovechkin has always been one of my favourite players but I felt like you could clearly see his short-comings. He just wasn't on Crosby's level and his flash-and-dash was a bit deceptive.

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10-25-2012, 11:31 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Crabovski View Post
It has nothing to do with prime ovie or old ovie. Ovie is still young. It has to do with Mature Ovie vs Irresponsible Ovie. Ive heard stories about the guy Im not aloud to post here.

Thats half his battle IMO, the other half lies in his predictability. After a while goalies are going to catch on. Ovechkin took advantage of a move/shot nobody used for a long time, a season or 2 of it everyone caught on now hes back to being an above average player. Anyone who watched the games knew Ovechkin was not in Crosbys realm or even the realm his numbers made it look like he was in.

It comes down to - He was good at catching goalies off gaurd. Now, he has the reputation as the guy who catches goalies off gaurd, so they dont get caught off gaurd by him because they know his game. Simple.
If this means what i think it does i don't buy it. Ov was clear cut best or top-3 player for a stretch of 5 years not for 1 or 2. You don't do that by taking advantage of one trick. You honestly think that Ovechkin magically exploited some weird shooting trick for half decade and suddenly people just realized and got on to him? Sounds made up.

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Old
10-25-2012, 12:35 PM
  #122
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key thing about this post is that he's played 13 games. he only has a point per game average?!?!? how terrible is that?

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Old
10-25-2012, 12:40 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
I think it is more like 25.
Yes, that is correct, historically most (goalscorers) have their best statistical season at age 25 and then trend downwards. There are exceptions of course.

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10-25-2012, 12:51 PM
  #124
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is this a joke?

please tell me this is a joke.
I think it's slightly misinformed. There are data out there that indicate that a goalscorer's peak tends (note: tends) to be around 24 on average, but that doesn't indicate the end of their prime, just generally their highest scoring season. Most forwards don't fall out of their "prime" until after 29-30. There are also exceptions (e.g. Iginla, Hull, etc.) who could be argued to have peaked in their late 20s as opposed to mid 20s.

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Old
10-25-2012, 02:02 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
If this means what i think it does i don't buy it. Ov was clear cut best or top-3 player for a stretch of 5 years not for 1 or 2. You don't do that by taking advantage of one trick. You honestly think that Ovechkin magically exploited some weird shooting trick for half decade and suddenly people just realized and got on to him? Sounds made up.
Your exaggerating my claim but you do get my point. Ovechkin had those 3 years where he had the NHL by the balls. He came into the NHL and played his game for 2 years, learned the game at this level, than played it even moreso to his strengths. His first 2 years his avgs were just below 50goals and just below 100pts. Reasonable for a Rookie superstar.

The next 3 years, domination no doubt, but look at the flow of his goal scoring totals. 65 - Kills the league. 56- Where he should be at a regular basis, still trying his pony move and its still working for him, the next season he gets 50, still good but he quickly trended down from 65 to 50. Thats a big margin.

The following year he cant even get 40 but its clear hes still an elite hockey player, the assists were still coming and he was still great, just not his goal scoring totals. I attest that to for those 3 yrs, he was a 'one dimensional goal scorer' - it demeans his game Ill admit, but that low laser was something nobody really ever tries, and it was working like crazy for him, how could he not fall in love with it. And than you have last year. I think that was a product of lost confidence.

Statistically I see Ovechkin being that guy he was in his first 2 years when he get it together. A guy like Stamkos however, thats someone I think were going to see hit 60 goals quite a few times. Ovechkin will be a step above Kovalchuk but under Stamkos, when this lockout ends.


Trust my crystal ball


Last edited by Crabovski*: 10-25-2012 at 02:08 PM.
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