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Old
10-24-2012, 11:20 PM
  #851
charliolemieux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Are you really trying to say that Joe Thornton wasn't in his prime when he got 101 points in his 6th season?
Wow

Iginla wasn't in his prime when he got his career high in goals in his 6th season?
Wow

Daniel Sedin got 36 goals in his 6th season. He's only surpassed that ONE other time.
And he wasn't even in his prime?
Wow

Henrik Sedin got 81 points in his 6th season. He's surpassed it TWICE.
And he wasn't even in his prime yet.
Fascinating.

Hossa got 82 points in his 6th season. He's only surpassed that number TWICE.
And he wasn't even in his prime.
Shocking.

Joe Thornton got 101 points in his 6th nhl season.
Has only passed it ONCE.
And he wasn't even in his prime.
Unheard of.

It seems that every player you just referenced started their prime by AT LEAST their 6th nhl season.
And those are the players FAMOUS for being late bloomers. AND THEY STILL PROVE MY POINT. HAHAHA
PRIME is not all about POINTS.

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Old
10-24-2012, 11:22 PM
  #852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Are you really trying to say that Joe Thornton wasn't in his prime when he got 101 points in his 6th season?
Wow

Iginla wasn't in his prime when he got his career high in goals in his 6th season?
Wow

Daniel Sedin got 36 goals in his 6th season. He's only surpassed that ONE other time.
And he wasn't even in his prime?
Wow

Henrik Sedin got 81 points in his 6th season. He's surpassed it TWICE.
And he wasn't even in his prime yet.
Fascinating.

Hossa got 82 points in his 6th season. He's only surpassed that number TWICE.
And he wasn't even in his prime.
Shocking.

Joe Thornton got 101 points in his 6th nhl season.
Has only passed it ONCE.
And he wasn't even in his prime.
Unheard of.

It seems that every player you just referenced started their prime by AT LEAST their 6th nhl season.
And those are the players FAMOUS for being late bloomers. AND THEY STILL PROVE MY POINT. HAHAHA
Prime, because you don't seem to know the definition, is "the most flourishing stage or state."

If they surpass a number from prior to their 7th season, the number previous is CLEARLY not their prime.

Thanks for proving my points.

With that, I am done.

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Old
10-24-2012, 11:25 PM
  #853
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Prime: Most productive years.


Last edited by achtungbaby: 10-24-2012 at 11:28 PM. Reason: i hate this new phone
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Old
10-24-2012, 11:26 PM
  #854
charliolemieux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anderson3133 View Post
Just to illustrate my point with point totals:

Joe Thornton Best 3 Seasons Prior To 7th Season: 101, 73, 71
Joe Thornton Best 3 Seasons Post 7th Season: 114, 96, 92

Daniel Sedin Best 3 Seasons Prior To 7th Season: 84, 74, 71
Daniel Sedin Best 3 Seasons Post 7th Season: 104, 85, 82

Henrik Sedin Best 3 Seasons Prior To 7th Season: 81, 76, 75
Henrik Sedin Best 3 Seasons Post 7th Season: 112, 94, 82

Marian Hossa Best 3 Seasons Prior To 7th Season: 82, 80, 75
Marian Hossa Best 3 Seasons Post 7th Season: 100, 92, 87

Jarome Iginla Best 3 Seasons Prior To 7th Season: 96, 71, 63
Jarome Iginla Best 3 Seasons Post 7th Season: 98, 94, 89

I'm not doing the rest because anyone with basic knowledge will get where this is going.
What can I say.

Never mind that it is during this time they are getting voted the best player in the world at something.

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Old
10-24-2012, 11:27 PM
  #855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
Is it wins? What are prime years in your line of thought??
I posted it. look back a few pages.

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Old
10-24-2012, 11:36 PM
  #856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
Prime: Most productive years.
Ah but are you more productive if you score 155 and prevent 15 against the 3rd line...

OR IF you score 90 and prevent 75 againt the 1st line?

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Old
10-24-2012, 11:53 PM
  #857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anderson3133 View Post
Prime, because you don't seem to know the definition, is "the most flourishing stage or state."

If they surpass a number from prior to their 7th season, the number previous is CLEARLY not their prime.

Thanks for proving my points.

With that, I am done.
So a players prime is only the year of his career high.

A "prime" is one year long?
Do the years after a players career high count as their prime? Because, according to your definition "the most flourishing stage", if they get LESS than their most flourishing stage, they are not in their prime.

So Iginla getting the most goals of his career in his 6th nhl season is not "in his prime" because he scored more "points" later in his career.

Fascinating.

Joe Thornton's 100 point season didn't even happen in his prime.
Interesting.

Hossa got 82 points in his 6th season. He only passed that number TWICE. I guess those 2 years are his prime. Not his 3rd best season.
Clearly not his prime.
It's all so interesting...


It's funny, because these players are EXCEPTIONS rather than RULES as players that were late bloomers.

And they were STILL all in their primes by their 7th nhl season.
You've been proven wrong, so I suspect spin as your response.

Ha.
This is fun.

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Old
10-24-2012, 11:59 PM
  #858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Ah but are you more productive if you score 155 and prevent 15 against the 3rd line...

OR IF you score 90 and prevent 75 againt the 1st line?
ahhahaahahhahahahha

So because I proved by using production statistics that the vast majority of players have started their prime years by at least their 7th nhl season...
you've now done the good ol' goalpost shift and say "yeah... well... uh... actually it's impossible to use stats to prove prime years. Because older players are better defensively".

Wow.

It was a whole new low before... but this is even lower.

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Old
10-25-2012, 12:02 AM
  #859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
So a players prime is only the year of his career high.

A "prime" is one year long?
Do the years after a players career high count as their prime? Because, according to your definition "the most flourishing stage", if they get LESS than their most flourishing stage, they are not in their prime.

So Iginla getting the most goals of his career in his 6th nhl season is not "in his prime" because he scored more "points" later in his career.

Fascinating.

Joe Thornton's 100 point season didn't even happen in his prime.
Interesting.

Hossa got 82 points in his 6th season. He only passed that number TWICE. I guess those 2 years are his prime. Not his 3rd best season.
Clearly not his prime.
It's all so interesting...


It's funny, because these players are EXCEPTIONS rather than RULES as players that were late bloomers.

And they were STILL all in their primes by their 7th nhl season.
You've been proven wrong, so I suspect spin as your response.

Ha.
This is fun.
Ya, umm, you've lost.

You can't spin you're way out of this one.

Enough already.

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Old
10-25-2012, 12:05 AM
  #860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
ahhahaahahhahahahha

So because I proved by using production statistics that the vast majority of players have started their prime years by at least their 7th nhl season...
you've now done the good ol' goalpost shift and say "yeah... well... uh... actually it's impossible to use stats to prove prime years. Because older players are better defensively".

Wow.

It was a whole new low before... but this is even lower.
Dear lord. YOu just don't get it.

What you are talking about is not PRIME.

You are talking about their top offensive production years not their PRIME years.

Go look at Scott Stevens.

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10-25-2012, 12:06 AM
  #861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Ya, umm, you've lost.

You can't spin you're way out of this one.

Enough already.
You're right.

Iginila's career high goal year was not in his prime.
You're correct. Good point.

Thornton's 101 point year wasn't even in his prime.
It's just so interesting.

Hossa's 3rd best season wasn't his prime.
His prime only lasted 2 seasons. Not 3 though. His 3rd best season is DEFINITELY not his prime.
You have a very well thought out opinion. Good for you.
Now I know that players career years in goals aren't even their "prime". Afterall, they may have played defense a little better later...


ha

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Old
10-25-2012, 12:07 AM
  #862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
So a players prime is only the year of his career high.

A "prime" is one year long?
Do the years after a players career high count as their prime? Because, according to your definition "the most flourishing stage", if they get LESS than their most flourishing stage, they are not in their prime.

So Iginla getting the most goals of his career in his 6th nhl season is not "in his prime" because he scored more "points" later in his career.

Fascinating.

Joe Thornton's 100 point season didn't even happen in his prime.
Interesting.

Hossa got 82 points in his 6th season. He only passed that number TWICE. I guess those 2 years are his prime. Not his 3rd best season.
Clearly not his prime.
It's all so interesting...


It's funny, because these players are EXCEPTIONS rather than RULES as players that were late bloomers.

And they were STILL all in their primes by their 7th nhl season.
You've been proven wrong, so I suspect spin as your response.

Ha.
This is fun.
It's during. I don't know how you don't get such a very simple concept. Not to mention, you keep changing the criteria in each analysis.

Do you look at the data I presented earlier and go "hmm, I would much rather the pre 7th season stats to those of the post 7th season stats"?

Do you sit here and say "yeah, I would much rather Thornton's 101 point season, 73 point season, and 71 point season to his 114 point season, 96 point season, and his 92 point season"?

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Old
10-25-2012, 12:10 AM
  #863
charliolemieux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
You're right.

Iginila's career high goal year was not in his prime.
You're correct. Good point.

Thornton's 101 point year wasn't even in his prime.
It's just so interesting.

Hossa's 3rd best season wasn't his prime.
His prime only lasted 2 seasons. Not 3 though. His 3rd best season is DEFINITELY not his prime.
You have a very well thought out opinion. Good for you.
Now I know that players career years in goals aren't even their "prime". Afterall, they may have played defense a little better later...


ha
Sorry man but Prime is PRime.

You're definition is not the generally accepted version of PRime.

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Old
10-25-2012, 12:18 AM
  #864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anderson3133 View Post
It's during. I don't know how you don't get such a very simple concept. Not to mention, you keep changing the criteria in each analysis.

Do you look at the data I presented earlier and go "hmm, I would much rather the pre 7th season stats to those of the post 7th season stats"?

Do you sit here and say "yeah, I would much rather Thornton's 101 point season, 73 point season, and 71 point season to his 114 point season, 96 point season, and his 92 point season"?
I would make the VERY simple argument that Thornton started his prime with his breakout season, and then fluctuated.
To say that he had 6 years experience, and had 101 points and WASN'T IN HIS PRIME is an asinine argument.

I would say that Iginla WAS in his prime when he scored his career high.
To say less would be stat mining and an intellectually dishonest argument.

These players had primes that lasted a lot longer than most players. But their primes still started well before their 7th season.

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Old
10-25-2012, 12:23 AM
  #865
anderson3133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
I would make the VERY simple argument that Thornton started his prime with his breakout season, and then fluctuated.
To say that he had 6 years experience, and had 101 points and WASN'T IN HIS PRIME is an asinine argument.

I would say that Iginla WAS in his prime when he scored his career high.
To say less would be stat mining and an intellectually dishonest argument.

These players had primes that lasted a lot longer than most players. But their primes still started well before their 7th season.
So that's a different point altogether. When people say "he will hit his prime at 27" it is common to believe that his statistically best season will occur during that age.

Of course durations change on a player-to-player basis and it would be equally as asinine to evaluate primes in different manners (re: goals vs. points).

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10-25-2012, 12:23 AM
  #866
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Who the hell cares when the prime is. It is a proven fact, but if Disgruntled Observer wants to twist things and make stuff up, then let him. He obviously doesn't understand these simple concepts.

The point of all of this was that our players still have room to improve, whether or not they are in their prime, and that has been proven true.

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Old
10-25-2012, 12:28 AM
  #867
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A voice of reason.

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Old
10-25-2012, 01:00 AM
  #868
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And on that note...

Closed.

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