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Old
10-23-2012, 01:33 PM
  #651
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=444735
people here questioning Getzlafs contract
Oh great. People who had no relation to Anaheim, and who didn't know a thing about Getzlaf. Right. Great example.

Edit: For the record, I was talking about Anaheim fans. Fans of other teams, looking strictly at points, can't accurately judge the worth of a player they've never seen.


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10-23-2012, 01:43 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by Finnpin View Post
I'd say stylewise Vatanen is closer to Karlsson than Fowler though you don't see Sami doing some crazy wow magic moves/shots in the offense like Karlsson but still Sami makes smart decisions there + plus the slapper has unbeliavable dynamite in it when you consider the frame Sami has.

Fowler is smoother skater than Sami but if we are just checking pure speed and who is faster... I would put "all in" to Vatanen's side. He is a freaking "Speedy Gonzales". I guess he haven't still showed all his gears in AHL.
He's shown plenty of speed, but we are talking about the NHL here, and Fowler is a truly exceptional skater. He's one of the fastest skaters in the NHL. In fact, he has a faster time than Grabner who won fastest skater. I do think they are very close, and it could even turn out Vatanen has a small step on him, but the difference would be pretty negligible.

In terms of overall skating ability though, it seems clear Fowler is better. The kid could do a literal dance around players on his skates.

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10-23-2012, 02:03 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Oh great. People who had no relation to Anaheim, and who didn't know a thing about Getzlaf. Right. Great example.

Edit: For the record, I was talking about Anaheim fans. Fans of other teams, looking strictly at points, can't accurately judge the worth of a player they've never seen.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=444734

Ducks board thread on extension. More positive reactions there.

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10-24-2012, 01:38 AM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Oh great. People who had no relation to Anaheim, and who didn't know a thing about Getzlaf. Right. Great example.

Edit: For the record, I was talking about Anaheim fans. Fans of other teams, looking strictly at points, can't accurately judge the worth of a player they've never seen.
You said you didn't see one person question it, I provided an example and now you want to move the goalposts, all I said is people were infact questioning the deal at the time and it wasn't just here but elsewhere i didn't say everyone did

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10-24-2012, 01:39 AM
  #655
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Good read.
i forgot how much duck hate existed at that time

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10-24-2012, 01:46 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
You said you didn't see one person question it, I provided an example and now you want to move the goalposts, all I said is people were infact questioning the deal at the time and it wasn't just here but elsewhere i didn't say everyone did
I read the first couple of pages of that linked thread and came out with two conclusions: 1) People liked the deal or 2) People questioned the price of a 2nd contract. Those people who questioned the price of the 2nd contract were then redirected to what Oilers' GM Lowe did the previous year, which Lowe gave a pretty generous 2nd contract to Penner in order to pry him away from the Ducks due to Penner's RFA status and the Ducks' fiscal responsibilities to the organization. Burke was upset when Lowe did that move because the move raised the bar for 2nd contracts. Based upon what Penner accomplished at the time vs what Getzlaf accomplished at the time and Getz' position, Getz' contract would be considered a good, if not great deal.

What agent in their right mind would want to settle for a $3 million/year contract for five years when another player with lesser production is making $5 million/ year. It's easy to bash contracts without context. BTW, here's another example where the NHLPA wins despite telling everyone they bent over backwards and lost everything. Any rookie with decent stats are now getting 3rd or 4th contract prices at their 2nd contracts. Teams want to win and someone, Lowe in this case, pushed the price so high for 2nd contracts that he had no regard to how it would affect the league then and its future. I didn't hear the PA say to Lowe and Penner that they're making too much money. But I'm sure they would be up in arms if Getz and Perry were to earn $2 million less than Penner the following year as it's not their practice. I don't blame the PA because that's their job. It's also the league's job to keep the things within profitable context. When outliers become the norm, then it becomes the league's job to amend that somehow.

Increases price of 2nd contracts compound that with an increasing cap (and floor), things are bound to spiral out of control unless the league can keep up with that. Some teams can, big market teams, and a lot of others can't (lots of small market teams). Based upon what Penner received, GEtzlaf's contract was a steal!

Player ..Year.. .Team. ..Pts.. ..Pts.. .Team. ..Year.. Player
Penner
06/07
Ducks
45
 
82
Ducks
07/08
Getzlaf
Penner       Getzlaf
Penner
07/08
Oilers
47
 
91
Ducks
08/09
Getzlaf
Penner
08/09
Oilers
37
 
69
Ducks
09/10
Getzlaf
Penner
09/10
Oilers
63
 
76
Ducks
10/11
Getzlaf
Penner
10/11
Oilers/Kings
45
 
57
Ducks
11/12
Getzlaf
Penner
11/12
Kings
17
 
na
Ducks
12/13
Getzlaf
Penner       Getzlaf
Penner
07-11
5 year contract
209
 
293
5 year contract*
08-12
Getzlaf

* Getlaf has yet to play out his fifth year of the contract. See NHL Lockout.

Penner's $4.25 mil/year contract was from 07/08 - 11/12. Getzlaf's $5.325/year average contract was from 08/09 - 12/13. I included their previous year's production before the 2nd contract. Just looking at their production the year before, getting Getzlaf to sign a contract at that price looks like a discount for the Ducks. And upon reflection, Getzlaf has score almost 100 points more than Penner with one year left to play on that contract.

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10-24-2012, 06:23 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
You said you didn't see one person question it, I provided an example and now you want to move the goalposts, all I said is people were infact questioning the deal at the time and it wasn't just here but elsewhere i didn't say everyone did
I'm not moving the goal posts, I'm clarifying. I'm not even sure why you brought up Getzlaf and Perry's contracts, since it has nothing to do with Souray's contract. Getzlaf and Perry were two young players coming off of their ELC's. They had their entire future ahead of them. Anaheim fans were thrilled with the signings. As Duckie pointed out, in that thread you brought up, the questions regarding the Getzlaf signing involved the disappearance of the second contract. That was a common complaint at the time, because prior to that a player had a go-between contract. That was a big reach for such a strawman argument. "Hey look, a small minority took issue with the Getzlaf contract, and look how that turned out."

None of this has anything to do with the issues people have with Souray's contract. Souray isn't a young player coming off of an ELC. He's a 36 year old, with a long history of injuries and missed games. Souray's contract is universally seen as a bad contract. Could he prove everyone wrong? Absolutely he could, and no one has said otherwise, but the odds certainly don't favor it. When you sign a player like Souray, factoring in his age and injury history, you want to minimize the risk... and a three year contract is not doing that. This is the type of contract that will be perceived as bad until proven otherwise, not the other way around.

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10-24-2012, 06:36 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
None of this has anything to do with the issues people have with Souray's contract. Souray isn't a young player coming off of an ELC. He's a 36 year old, with a long history of injuries and missed games. Souray's contract is universally seen as a bad contract. Could he prove everyone wrong? Absolutely he could, and no one has said otherwise, but the odds certainly don't favor it. When you sign a player like Souray, factoring in his age and injury history, you want to minimize the risk... and a three year contract is not doing that. This is the type of contract that will be perceived as bad until proven otherwise, not the other way around.
I wish I had your brain.

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10-24-2012, 07:02 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
I'm not moving the goal posts, I'm clarifying. I'm not even sure why you brought up Getzlaf and Perry's contracts, since it has nothing to do with Souray's contract. Getzlaf and Perry were two young players coming off of their ELC's. They had their entire future ahead of them. Anaheim fans were thrilled with the signings. As Duckie pointed out, in that thread you brought up, the questions regarding the Getzlaf signing involved the disappearance of the second contract. That was a common complaint at the time, because prior to that a player had a go-between contract. That was a big reach for such a strawman argument. "Hey look, a small minority took issue with the Getzlaf contract, and look how that turned out."

None of this has anything to do with the issues people have with Souray's contract. Souray isn't a young player coming off of an ELC. He's a 36 year old, with a long history of injuries and missed games. Souray's contract is universally seen as a bad contract. Could he prove everyone wrong? Absolutely he could, and no one has said otherwise, but the odds certainly don't favor it. When you sign a player like Souray, factoring in his age and injury history, you want to minimize the risk... and a three year contract is not doing that. This is the type of contract that will be perceived as bad until proven otherwise, not the other way around.
Excellent post. I completely agree.

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10-24-2012, 07:05 PM
  #660
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Originally Posted by SupermanPahlsson View Post
I wish I had your brain.
I'm trying to take that as a compliment, but that has a total mad scientist vibe to it.

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10-25-2012, 12:27 AM
  #661
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I wish I had your brain.
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I'm trying to take that as a compliment, but that has a total mad scientist vibe to it.

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10-25-2012, 12:52 AM
  #662
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I was headed straight to the web to find this until I scrolled down and found it here.

That is the absolute funniest movie of all time.

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10-25-2012, 01:16 AM
  #663
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
I'm not moving the goal posts, I'm clarifying. I'm not even sure why you brought up Getzlaf and Perry's contracts, since it has nothing to do with Souray's contract. Getzlaf and Perry were two young players coming off of their ELC's. They had their entire future ahead of them. Anaheim fans were thrilled with the signings. As Duckie pointed out, in that thread you brought up, the questions regarding the Getzlaf signing involved the disappearance of the second contract. That was a common complaint at the time, because prior to that a player had a go-between contract. That was a big reach for such a strawman argument. "Hey look, a small minority took issue with the Getzlaf contract, and look how that turned out."

None of this has anything to do with the issues people have with Souray's contract. Souray isn't a young player coming off of an ELC. He's a 36 year old, with a long history of injuries and missed games. Souray's contract is universally seen as a bad contract. Could he prove everyone wrong? Absolutely he could, and no one has said otherwise, but the odds certainly don't favor it. When you sign a player like Souray, factoring in his age and injury history, you want to minimize the risk... and a three year contract is not doing that. This is the type of contract that will be perceived as bad until proven otherwise, not the other way around.
Ok and my point was because Getzlaf gave us one horrible year, does that make the entirity of his contract bad? no it doesn't, if Souray gives us 2 useful seasons then i think most of us would be "ok" with that, no?

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10-25-2012, 02:07 AM
  #664
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Ok and my point was because Getzlaf gave us one horrible year, does that make the entirity of his contract bad? no it doesn't, if Souray gives us 2 useful seasons then i think most of us would be "ok" with that, no?
First off, Ryan Getzlaf's bad season still saw him put up 57 points. Those are still respectable numbers. They aren't Ryan Getzlaf numbers, but at his price tag, we're not exactly talking about horrible value. In this context, a bad season from Souray is not just about his production, but his health.

Secondly, Getzlaf is on a five year contract. One "bad" season is a smaller percentage of his contract than Souray's would be. Basically, we get more from Getzlaf, for a longer period of time, and even his bad season is still respectable. It's just not up to our expectations. Souray's good is not likely to overshadow the bad, the way Getzlaf's does, and his bad could consist of him missing half a season(or more).

And finally, you're still missing the point. There is absolutely no reason to not sign a young Ryan Getzlaf, coming off of his ELC, to a five year contract. That was a good contract. Hell, it was a great one. It's turned out to be a bargain. He's consistently given us over a point per game. The same is not true of a 36 year old, injury prone defenseman who is questionable to even complete an entire season over the course of his three year contract. My issue with this contract, and I believe the issue many others are having with it, is "Why?" Why sign Souray to such a risky contract, when his personal history says that it's unlikely we get our money's worth. Seems pretty wasteful for a budget team.

I welcome Souray to prove me wrong. I hope he does, because otherwise the Ducks are going to pay for it, both on and off the ice. That being said, most people are going to call it a bad contract until he proves otherwise, because that's what it looks like - a bad contract.

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10-25-2012, 02:21 AM
  #665
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And just to be clear, I'm not anti-Souray. He's certainly not my first choice of players to add, but when he's healthy and playing well he's a potent addition to any team's special teams. My problem is with the contract. I just don't get the logic behind signing a 36 year old, which is already the twilight of the average NHL career, who also has a long history of injuries, to a three year contract worth 11 million. Souray's own personal history says we'd be lucky to get two healthy seasons out of him, and that's without factoring in his age, which casts even more doubt on his durability.

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10-25-2012, 07:15 AM
  #666
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And all this is related to Sami Vatanen how exactly?

Good to see Sami racking up points. I wish he could really battle with (and win) J. Schultz in points so the Anaheim fans could finally say "Sch... who?"

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10-25-2012, 08:01 AM
  #667
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And just to be clear, I'm not anti-Souray. He's certainly not my first choice of players to add, but when he's healthy and playing well he's a potent addition to any team's special teams. My problem is with the contract. I just don't get the logic behind signing a 36 year old, which is already the twilight of the average NHL career, who also has a long history of injuries, to a three year contract worth 11 million. Souray's own personal history says we'd be lucky to get two healthy seasons out of him, and that's without factoring in his age, which casts even more doubt on his durability.
I agree. I just believe the value for the contract favors Souray. I'm pretty happy with the thought likely process behind his signing (size, shot, physicality, experience), but given his injury history, his not-too distant extended (albeit cap hit forced) stay in the minors and his less than great numbers last year, it would have been fair to see him net either the salary or the term. The fact that he got both is a bit of a minus and brings a risk. Thankfully none that Souray can't possibly overcome, but definitely big enough that I'm not a fan of the odds.

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10-26-2012, 10:53 AM
  #668
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And all this is related to Sami Vatanen how exactly?
Idk, this is kinda weird to notice that this forum is a bit different than our dear Jatkoaika.com, where both the KGB and Gestapo would be proud of the moderators. On the other hand, who knows who hired them in the first place. It could be, and I'm just suggesting, that when they ran out of work all those germans and russians just came to Finland to run a hockey forum. It's not good business but you get to whip some butts (only virtually though but nobody told them that in the first place).

Be that as it may, I'd love to hear more about how Sami's doing in Norfolk, it seems that he has had a good start for the season.

Are there any streams where you could watch the Norfolk games, or should they be found from different places everytime? First I thought I could've bought the AHL pass but then again, when I noticed from your comments that it might not work that well I thought twice (usually I don't think at all but when it comes to hockey it seems I'm smart son of a b....).


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10-27-2012, 05:24 PM
  #669
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10-27-2012, 06:48 PM
  #670
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Lol, he looks like Andre from The League wearing that.

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11-29-2012, 10:40 AM
  #671
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How has Sami played in Norfolk? An update, I'd appreciate it.

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11-29-2012, 10:56 AM
  #672
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How has Sami played in Norfolk? An update, I'd appreciate it.
Struggled lately, like the rest of the team. Needs to improve physically. He doesn't seem to be exploiting his strengths to full extent, it will take time.

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10-20-2014, 11:09 AM
  #673
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Bump.

This guy is shaping up to be a pure stud.

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10-20-2014, 11:42 AM
  #674
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You should bump Genious: Sami V hype train. Sing along here! -thread instead. Vatanen now keerole.

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10-20-2014, 11:50 AM
  #675
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Not that we've got a huge sample size thus far, but through 6 games Vats is leading the team in blocked shots and has the fewest giveaways among d-men.

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