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Luongo Thread - Waiting on the World to Change (Mod Warning in OP)

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Old
10-24-2012, 07:05 PM
  #1
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Luongo Thread - Waiting on the World to Change (Mod Warning in OP)

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If you're going to come here and tell Canuck fans what Luongo is worth and that they're wrong, word of advice; Don't.

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Old
10-24-2012, 07:10 PM
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I think more of the talk should be about the name of this thread then Luongo.

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10-24-2012, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
I think more of the talk should be about the name of this thread then Luongo.
My favourite name thus far...

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10-24-2012, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by capemjs View Post
I don't see how comments like help this discussion at all.
What discussion is that? Luongo's worth to Toronto? What Vancouver will get from Toronto? Some sort of fan-determined middle-ground fantasy trade?

This entire discussion doesn't really need to be furthered, IMHO, other than if some find it interesting and entertaining... More likely than anything, Toronto is being strung along (more perceived demand, the better) - where Toronto likely hasn't (and probably never will, IMO) be formally presented to Luongo as a viable alternative... Burke needs to be willing to pay, a lot, to force himself into the Gillis and Tallon conversation... Same with Chicago... Same with Edmonton... Same with any other team that likes the idea of having Luongo play on their team... Luongo's preference to staying in Vancouver is Florida... There are other teams interested in Luongo, and Luongo has expressed at least some interest in considering what opportunities are presented before him... That's about what is known... Burke is going to have to have a private conversation with Luongo, and explain to him why his good friend Allaire is full of ****, and Toronto would be a fantastic place for Luongo to play out his career... Burke is going to need to have a good discussion with Luongo about how both could see a marriage going forward... Tallon has, apparently, already been afforded such a conversation... Burke? Nope... That would have been leaked as a major Toronto media story, IMO... Luongo's agent says that he's never been mentioned about Toronto, let alone a deal being seriously considered, or completed... Burke needs to work harder and convince Gillis that he and Toronto deserves such an equal conversation as Tallon received...

Am I helping your discussion, your agenda? Probably not... But this is a Luongo thread, on the Canucks board... where things regarding Luongo (other than involving what he can return from the Leafs) are discussed... This isn't a Luongo to Toronto thread... If it was, I agree that his comment (and mine) don't help your discussion or agenda at all... But, since it's not, his post (and mine), are Luongo-focused, and this is a Luongo thread, on the Canucks board... It helps discussion just fine... Burke is going to have to work to get Luongo, more than Tallon would have to work... Luongo already wants to go to Florida... Florida and Luongo have already talked... Luongo seems loose, and in great spirits! Gillis doesn't seem rushed, or worried... All seems good, with what the tide has brought in, so far...

Just because Toronto has the biggest need for Luongo, that doesn't mean that Burke will pay the highest or nicest price (this is Burke)... It doesn't mean that Toronto is a real attractive destination for Luongo himself... Everybody can see that Toronto would be a good fit, on paper... But, in reality, I don't think so... Burke isn't going to pay the price to convince Gillis to seriously join Toronto into the discussion... Luongo isn't going to see Toronto as a top preference place to play (above Florida)... If Luongo's alleged meeting with Tallon went well, Luongo perhaps is willing to do what he says he is, and stay with Vancouver until Florida is ready...

This is a type of discussion (or post) you will find here on the Canuck board... It might not help your discussion or agenda... but it is Luongo discussion...

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10-24-2012, 07:22 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I in the Eye View Post
What discussion is that? Luongo's worth to Toronto? What Vancouver will get from Toronto? Some sort of fan-determined middle-ground fantasy trade?....
It infers things about a general fan base. It has nothing to do with the individuals
within any forum of discussion going on here - no matter how you legitimize it, from
any angle - and for the most part it is speculative and insulting.

I'm just here to talk with respect to one another regardless of their allegiances, mono e mono.
I hope that clarifies my point for you.

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Old
10-24-2012, 07:29 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by capemjs View Post
It infers things about a general fan base. It has nothing to do with the individuals
within any forum of discussion going on here - no matter how you legitimize it, from
any angle - and for the most part it is speculative and insulting.

I'm just here to talk with respect to one another regardless of their allegiances, mono e mono.
I hope that clarifies my point for you.
It is the Canucks board... You will need a thick skin if being here (if you're a Leaf fan), and let things slide... much like I would, if I was on the Toronto board Luongo thread (if there is one, which I assume there is)... You are very welcome here (as far as I'm concerned)... But you are going to hear things that you won't like about Toronto, the Leafs, Burke, Kadri, etc... Things that are speculative and insulting... Things that would be trolling, if posted elsewhere...

If you are looking for Canuck fan perspective, you will come across some who don't want Luongo on Toronto for emotional reasons... Some who don't see Luongo on Toronto for reasonable reasons... and some who don't see or want Luongo on Toronto for a bit (or a lot) of both... You will also come across those who are more willing to discuss a fantasy trade, and see a trade make sense... Just filter out the noise to you, internally and mentally, IMHO...


Last edited by I in the Eye: 10-24-2012 at 07:34 PM.
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Old
10-24-2012, 07:36 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I in the Eye View Post
It is the Canucks board... You will need a thick skin if being here (if you're a Leaf fan), and let things slide... much like I would, if I was on the Toronto board Luongo thread (if there is one, which I assume there is)... You are very welcome here (as far as I'm concerned)... But you are going to hear things that you won't like about Toronto, the Leafs, Burke, Kadri, etc... Things that are speculative and insulting... Things that would be trolling, if posted elsewhere...

If you are looking for Canuck fan perspective, you will come across some who don't want Luongo on Toronto for emotional reasons... Some who don't see Luongo on Toronto for reasonable reasons... and some who don't see or want Luongo on Toronto for a bit (or a lot) of both...
I don't speak for the board, it's moderators or any other Leaf fans but if that's really
the case - I'm new on the forum - I won't be around long. I don't consider
it enjoyable nor productive to have to exist in such an environment and I've left
other forums because of it.

In fact, I'll bow out not and I won't come back. Thanks to those who did chew the
fat on Luongo and I've learned something here because of that. All the best.

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Old
10-24-2012, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capemjs View Post
I don't speak for the board, it's moderators or any other Leaf fans but if that's really
the case - I'm new on the forum - I won't be around long.
I don't consider
it enjoyable nor productive to have to exist in such an environment and I've left
other forums because of it.

In fact, I'll bow out not and I won't come back. Thanks to those who did chew the
fat on Luongo and I've learned something here because of that. All the best.
It is the case & you are apart of a fan base (like us) who get those kind of comments ALL the time. Its not fun but it is some how the way of HF. I suggest going into Toronto's forum & thread about Luongo to see what they say & imagine being a Canucks fan.

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Old
10-24-2012, 07:39 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capemjs View Post
I don't speak for the board, it's moderators or any other Leaf fans but if that's really
the case - I'm new on the forum - I won't be around long. I don't consider
it enjoyable nor productive to have to exist in such an environment and I've left
other forums because of it.

In fact, I'll bow out not and I won't come back. Thanks to those who did chew the
fat on Luongo and I've learned something here because of that. All the best.
As a general rule of thumb, team boards are given more slack in terms of what can be said... i.e. I wouldn't be able to say on Toronto's board about Toronto, that I could here (and visa versa)...

As I say, you are very welcome to post... But, if you don't want to, that's fine too...

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10-24-2012, 07:52 PM
  #10
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Well. That was fast.

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Old
10-24-2012, 07:59 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by ddawg1950 View Post
Well. That was fast.
Thanks... Honing my skills here, but my goal is to eventually get main board Luongo threads closed within seconds of opening...

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10-24-2012, 08:04 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I in the Eye View Post
Thanks... Honing my skills here, but my goal is to eventually get main board Luongo threads closed within seconds of opening...
hone your craft... and fast!

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Old
10-24-2012, 08:13 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
hone your craft... and fast!
This thread is slandering to Luongo (or Burke, Kadri, Schenn, Komaserek) and HF is contributing to it by allowing this activity to continue)... I am taking a snapshot of this thread and forwarding it to the appropriate parties so that they can pursue it with HF however way they see best... What do the sponsors and advertisers think? There is a fine line between heated discussion and cyber-bullying... and HF (through it's moderators) clearly doesn't see the difference... Disgraceful.

*copy, paste*

Edit:


Last edited by I in the Eye: 10-24-2012 at 09:32 PM.
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10-24-2012, 08:18 PM
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I in the Eye took care of business.

And they can look no further than how they covet Phaneuf, who is an average dman.

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10-24-2012, 08:32 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
I in the Eye took care of business.

And they can look no further than how they covet Phaneuf, who is an average dman.
Whenever I hear Phanuef's name I can't help but think of this:


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Old
10-24-2012, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I in the Eye View Post
What discussion is that? Luongo's worth to Toronto? What Vancouver will get from Toronto? Some sort of fan-determined middle-ground fantasy trade?

This entire discussion doesn't really need to be furthered, IMHO, other than if some find it interesting and entertaining... More likely than anything, Toronto is being strung along (more perceived demand, the better) - where Toronto likely hasn't (and probably never will, IMO) be formally presented to Luongo as a viable alternative... Burke needs to be willing to pay, a lot, to force himself into the Gillis and Tallon conversation... Same with Chicago... Same with Edmonton... Same with any other team that likes the idea of having Luongo play on their team... Luongo's preference to staying in Vancouver is Florida... There are other teams interested in Luongo, and Luongo has expressed at least some interest in considering what opportunities are presented before him... That's about what is known... Burke is going to have to have a private conversation with Luongo, and explain to him why his good friend Allaire is full of ****, and Toronto would be a fantastic place for Luongo to play out his career... Burke is going to need to have a good discussion with Luongo about how both could see a marriage going forward... Tallon has, apparently, already been afforded such a conversation... Burke? Nope... That would have been leaked as a major Toronto media story, IMO... Luongo's agent says that he's never been mentioned about Toronto, let alone a deal being seriously considered, or completed... Burke needs to work harder and convince Gillis that he and Toronto deserves such an equal conversation as Tallon received...

Am I helping your discussion, your agenda? Probably not... But this is a Luongo thread, on the Canucks board... where things regarding Luongo (other than involving what he can return from the Leafs) are discussed... This isn't a Luongo to Toronto thread... If it was, I agree that his comment (and mine) don't help your discussion or agenda at all... But, since it's not, his post (and mine), are Luongo-focused, and this is a Luongo thread, on the Canucks board... It helps discussion just fine... Burke is going to have to work to get Luongo, more than Tallon would have to work... Luongo already wants to go to Florida... Florida and Luongo have already talked... Luongo seems loose, and in great spirits! Gillis doesn't seem rushed, or worried... All seems good, with what the tide has brought in, so far...

Just because Toronto has the biggest need for Luongo, that doesn't mean that Burke will pay the highest or nicest price (this is Burke)... It doesn't mean that Toronto is a real attractive destination for Luongo himself... Everybody can see that Toronto would be a good fit, on paper... But, in reality, I don't think so... Burke isn't going to pay the price to convince Gillis to seriously join Toronto into the discussion... Luongo isn't going to see Toronto as a top preference place to play (above Florida)... If Luongo's alleged meeting with Tallon went well, Luongo perhaps is willing to do what he says he is, and stay with Vancouver until Florida is ready...

This is a type of discussion (or post) you will find here on the Canuck board... It might not help your discussion or agenda... but it is Luongo discussion...

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Old
10-24-2012, 09:30 PM
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That guy didn't seem SO bad. He was at least willing to engage in some reasonable Luongo discussion for a bit.

But as Imagine mentioned, go over to the Leafs board Luongo thread, and look at the general degradation of the Canucks fanbase as a whole, let alone Luongo, his talent, his history, his stats, and all other things Canucks related. Then come back here and try to complain about our discussion regarding Luongo. Not quite in the same hemisphere.

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10-24-2012, 10:41 PM
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SOB who picked John Mayer? That's it. I'm out.

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10-25-2012, 01:05 AM
  #19
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When Garrison signed w/ Van, Tallon said something like "we couldn't afford to match that deal. We just don't have those type of resources"
Garrison was a top 2 d-man on their team, if they can't afford to pay him $27.7M over 6 yrs, they def can't afford Lu's remaining $47M over 10 yrs.

Botch 'believes' Florida is out. Dreger said the opposite, and the hold up is Van unwilling to take $$ in return. Of course Van doesn't want to take $$, it means reduced cap space for an ineffective player. But if the new salary transfer rule is approved, I can see Gillis paying say $1.5M per yr for duration of Lu's contract. Suddenly, a $47M contract is $32M. The difference is really paying Upshalls contract - without actually taking the plug.

Van's one of the wealthiest NHL teams, they spend more $$ on off ice programs than any other NHL team. They have the largest amateur scouting staff in the NHL. They've shown willingness to spend to be competitive. If Fla offers up a good package, I could see something like this happening. It's Lu's 1st choice, and you can bet it's Gillis 1st choice to send him to a quiet market like Fla.

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10-25-2012, 01:11 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maccas View Post
Whenever I hear Phanuef's name I can't help but think of this:

Not even close...



Quote:
Originally Posted by capemjs View Post
I don't speak for the board, it's moderators or any other Leaf fans but if that's really
the case - I'm new on the forum - I won't be around long. I don't consider
it enjoyable nor productive to have to exist in such an environment and I've left
other forums because of it.

In fact, I'll bow out not and I won't come back. Thanks to those who did chew the
fat on Luongo and I've learned something here because of that. All the best.
I'll take your word that you haven't lurked around here long because you'd understand the need for the "rules" outlined for this particular thread. It was as bad as the time of the "Bertuzzi incident"....


Last edited by Barney Gumble: 10-25-2012 at 01:19 AM.
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10-25-2012, 01:18 AM
  #21
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Ruutu ftw

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10-25-2012, 06:36 AM
  #22
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Ohh I miss Ruutu

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10-25-2012, 09:47 AM
  #23
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Wow, I in the Eye, masterful. I don't disagree with you, FLA still seems like a long-term possibility. Basically, my stance on this is that if the deal is done quick, it's because Burke has woken up, otherwise, FLA and VAN will work out something as the season moves along. Just IMO.


Also, capemjs, don't take it personally. This is how HF operates. You'll get used to it. It would be a shame to lose your input since TO is still in the mix.







Now then, on the TO front, we have the following PassittoBulis article: http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2012/10...ted-in-public/


Harrison Mooney brings up some good speculation within. Got me thinking... We all know that Gillis tracks advanced stats. MAG and Booth seem to be his latest forays based on these underlying numbers. So that said, it puts the spotlight on Bozak and his suspect underlying numbers. HM surmises that the TO angle is to give up Bozak, but the VAN angle is to get Colborne (A guy with an 11 game NHL track record...) So does Gillis go against type to target Bozak, or take a flyer one someone that might be better than Andrew Ebbett? [Reference in Article] [/quote]


So in doing some rumour algebra, and working off Gardiner-plus-plus-plus, we replace Bozak with Colborne. This nets: Gardiner + 1st + Frattin + Colborne. Now, the obvious point of contention is still Gardiner. If Finn takes his place, does this still work? Note: This assumes Colborne takes over the 3C spot in the NHL immediately.


Lastly, HM speculates that Burke will "crack" first here given a shortened season. His reasoning is sound. During a shortened season, the margin for error is razor thin, and any negative fluctuations could cost you dearly. Apply this to the leafs goaltending, and you have a real reason why time is not on Burke's side here. Gillis sitting on Lu for 20 games does not work for TO. Note: The only thing that will change this is the CBA forcing a cap alteration to 60m for _this_year_ (as in, no 70m transition year).


Last edited by Bleach Clean: 10-25-2012 at 09:53 AM.
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10-25-2012, 10:44 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Lastly, HM speculates that Burke will "crack" first here given a shortened season. His reasoning is sound. During a shortened season, the margin for error is razor thin, and any negative fluctuations could cost you dearly.
Disagre with his reasoning here. The longer the season, the bigger the advantage good goaltending gets you. Over a smaller sample size, the gap narrows. Throw in the fact Luongo often gets off to a slow start and the gap between Luongo and an average goaltender narrows even further.

Gardiner +++ just isn't grounded in reality IMO. Assuming the pluses aren't Lombardi, Komisarek and Connolly.

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10-25-2012, 10:47 AM
  #25
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The price for Luongo needs to START at Gardiner, Lupul, Reilly, or JVR. Anything else and it's likely we're just getting table scraps or a slew of crap like Calgary got for Phaneuf.

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