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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part V: The "Back to square one" Edition

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Old
10-25-2012, 11:49 AM
  #651
HatTrick Swayze
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This is looking a lot bleaker than I expected it to at this point.

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10-25-2012, 11:53 AM
  #652
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Every time Bettman opens his mouth, regardless of the position of the NHL and whether I agree with them or not, I just want to punch him and have the work stoppage last forever because **** that guy
My sentiments exactly. At this point I'd rather miss two seasons if it means he's gone.

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10-25-2012, 12:08 PM
  #653
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Honestly, to get rid of Bettman and set the CBA right longer term, if it takes a full year to do, so be it.

**** Bettman.

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10-25-2012, 12:13 PM
  #654
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He better step down after this is all over, especially if its another canceled season.

He should honestly consider fearing for his safety attending any further NHL games.

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10-25-2012, 12:13 PM
  #655
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aha guys bettman isn't going anywhere until he wants to leave. lets just get that straight.

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10-25-2012, 12:13 PM
  #656
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It's all talk and posturing. Bettman did the same thing back in September when he said the 49 down to 47 deal would be "off the table" if it wasn't accepted by the 15th. A month later the NHL comes back with a better offer.
Yeah pretty much, but also a reason why this is so frustrating.

Look, even if you're on the owners side, you should be frustrated with the way they've been bargaining. In fact, they really haven't been bargaining, they've been giving out ultimatums that their deals must be signed pretty much as is and if the NHLPA doesn't do that then bad things will happen. Maybe you could consider that "good strategy" but IMO it's a big reason why we're at where we're at. Both sides aren't engaging on the issues, they're just flinging proposals and shooting them down and then acting huffy that their "brilliant and fair proposal wasn't accept as is"

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10-25-2012, 12:34 PM
  #657
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It's all talk and posturing. Bettman did the same thing back in September when he said the 49 down to 47 deal would be "off the table" if it wasn't accepted by the 15th. A month later the NHL comes back with a better offer.

Except this time there's revenue loss. And there's NO WAY it gets better than 50/50 for the players. NO WAY.

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10-25-2012, 12:48 PM
  #658
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Except this time there's revenue loss. And there's NO WAY it gets better than 50/50 for the players. NO WAY.
Players don't want better than 50/50. They want the cap phased. Lower escrow.

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10-25-2012, 01:11 PM
  #659
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Yeah pretty much, but also a reason why this is so frustrating.

Look, even if you're on the owners side, you should be frustrated with the way they've been bargaining. In fact, they really haven't been bargaining, they've been giving out ultimatums that their deals must be signed pretty much as is and if the NHLPA doesn't do that then bad things will happen. Maybe you could consider that "good strategy" but IMO it's a big reason why we're at where we're at. Both sides aren't engaging on the issues, they're just flinging proposals and shooting them down and then acting huffy that their "brilliant and fair proposal wasn't accept as is"
Both sides have been ridiculous. The NHL's to blame for the ultimatums, walking out after 10 mins of meetings, their initial proposal etc and the NHLPA is to blame for refusing to negotiate before the summer, taking a month to respond to the NHL's initial proposal, and basically making the same variation of their summer proposal over and over. The NHL and the PA are both to blame but the way a deal gets done is off some variation of the NHL's proposal, not the PA's. I think they could work out a way where they phase the split down to 50/50 so all the contracts are honored or they work on the make whole so that a good portion of it comes out of the owners side. These negotiations won't go anywhere based on the NHLPA's proposals because they're based on the PA getting a guaranteed amount while assuming growth for the NHL which isn't plausible IMO.

It's all frustrating because this can easily be avoided but everybody saw this coming with Fehr and Bettman leading the charge. I always said a deal would get done in December and still hold to that. I truly think both sides know they can't afford to lose the season. Still though, doesn't make it less frustrating.

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Except this time there's revenue loss. And there's NO WAY it gets better than 50/50 for the players. NO WAY.
They could do phasing in like I said above but in the end it'll come out to some sort of 50/50.

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10-25-2012, 01:18 PM
  #660
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Players don't want better than 50/50. They want the cap phased. Lower escrow.
I get it. I'm just not convinced that them holding out will result in a better deal. I'm no negotiator, but it seems that when money is lost both sides will dig in further. Owners will be spiteful and will give less and less.

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10-25-2012, 01:23 PM
  #661
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If the season is cancelled the players will lose the most lucrative year (collectively) of the contracts they want guaranteed.

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10-25-2012, 01:24 PM
  #662
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Canceling the WC game that is planned for 1/1/13?

Goodbye season.

I don't even care anymore. **** this league and Bettman. I don't want some garbage 30 game schedule or so. Just cancel it all so I don't have to keep checking twitter every minute for good news. Seriously the most pathetic run business in the history of business. Can't even figure something out and compromise. Rather lose on millions just to save a few million. Only pathetic league to have 2 lockout in under a decade.

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10-25-2012, 01:43 PM
  #663
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Potentially the only league in history to have two canceled seasons, not even in 10 years, but ****ing 7 years. 7 mother****ing years.

Unbelievably appalling.

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10-25-2012, 01:51 PM
  #664
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David Stern announced he is retiring in February of 2014....if only it were Gary Bettman instead. I don't think I've hated anyone more in my life.

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10-25-2012, 01:52 PM
  #665
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David Stern announced he is retiring in February of 2014....if only it were Gary Bettman instead. I don't think I've hated anyone more in my life.
February of 2014? Shouldn't he wait until the season is over?

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10-25-2012, 01:53 PM
  #666
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February of 2014? Shouldn't he wait until the season is over?
Yeah I don't know why he chose then. There might be an explanation for it, I just didn't bother reading into it much.

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10-25-2012, 01:58 PM
  #667
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First of all it will never be more than one season and 99.9% of us will be right back in our seat whenever they drop the puck.
It will never be more than one season? Not all that long ago, it was there will NEVER be a full season that is canceled.

I believe that 99.99% of the fans will not come back this time around. You are entitled to your opinion. And if there is no two seasons, the NHL is as good as dead.

Think of it. Fehr will be in no hurry to start the next season, once this one is canceled. However, the owners will be. Why? Because unlike this year, they will not have sold a single ticket. Right now, they are feeling the pinch of concessions and the anciliaries. Wait until they feel the ticket sales as well.

Fehr was in no hurry to start the baseball season, after the World Series was canceled. And please do not tell me that the players will force him. he is doign what they want. They hired him for this. They do not want to get bent over again.

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10-25-2012, 02:02 PM
  #668
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Yeah I don't know why he chose then. There might be an explanation for it, I just didn't bother reading into it much.
It's his 30th anniversary with the NBA apparently.

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10-25-2012, 02:05 PM
  #669
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Doom and Gloom. It's still October and there's talk of cancelled games next season. This season is still very alive.

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10-25-2012, 02:08 PM
  #670
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It will never be more than one season? Not all that long ago, it was there will NEVER be a full season that is canceled.

I believe that 99.99% of the fans will not come back this time around. You are entitled to your opinion. And if there is no two seasons, the NHL is as good as dead.

Think of it. Fehr will be in no hurry to start the next season, once this one is canceled. However, the owners will be. Why? Because unlike this year, they will not have sold a single ticket. Right now, they are feeling the pinch of concessions and the anciliaries. Wait until they feel the ticket sales as well.

Fehr was in no hurry to start the baseball season, after the World Series was canceled. And please do not tell me that the players will force him. he is doign what they want. They hired him for this. They do not want to get bent over again.
I understand why Fehr wouldn't be. But the players he represents?

Cash melts away fast when you're used to a certain standard of living. More to the point, careers melt away fast when they average, what, 5 years for the rank and file NHL player? That's two lost years of earnings and two lost years of playing time. I went into the lockout at 27 in the prime of my career and now I'm 29 and viewed as only having a couple of good years left?

An owner's career on the other hand can go on for decades (just look at Dolan!) and, when it's over, the club is sold for a big cash price or left to his heirs to continue the process.

I'm not minimizing the cost to the owners, but I see a two year lockout as crippling to the players.

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10-25-2012, 02:09 PM
  #671
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I have to say, if there's anything about this situation that doesn't suck, its that the Rangers players aren't saying stupid stuff like some others. I haven't heard anything from Hank, Callahan, Staal, or anyone else that makes me shake my head like some these Biznasty and Hamhuis statements.

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10-25-2012, 02:11 PM
  #672
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I have to say, if there's anything about this situation that doesn't suck, its that the Rangers players aren't saying stupid stuff like some others. I haven't heard anything from Hank, Callahan, Staal, or anyone else that makes me shake my head like some these Biznasty and Hamhuis statements.
Lundqvist made a comment that made me wonder...

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10-25-2012, 02:15 PM
  #673
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Lundqvist made a comment that made me wonder...
If you're refering to the tweet, I heard that wasn't his real account

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10-25-2012, 02:16 PM
  #674
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I have to say, if there's anything about this situation that doesn't suck, its that the Rangers players aren't saying stupid stuff like some others. I haven't heard anything from Hank, Callahan, Staal, or anyone else that makes me shake my head like some these Biznasty and Hamhuis statements.
Lundqvist's tweet was one of the stupid things I've ever read. Then Richards agreed with him.

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10-25-2012, 02:16 PM
  #675
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If you're refering to the tweet, I heard that wasn't his real account
It was his real account.

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