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Nationwide Arena/CBJ Finances Discussion II

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Old
05-22-2012, 08:04 PM
  #376
CBJBrassard16
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
For the long term security of the team in Columbus? Nothing, assuming Jr. decides he wants to keep financing this dog and pony show.

What it means is basically that Priest and three of his friends tried to push through a proposal that would give the four men private control of 250 million thats earmarked for a public facility.
Wow. Well I guess the only positive is that the Jackets are still safe?

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05-22-2012, 08:30 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
The added value is that, if I so choose, I can inform myself. No, does me little good since I can't vote in Franklin County/Columbus, but to those who both pay taxes and vote, they can vote accordingly. The marketplace of ideas, as any other marketplace, only works when you have something approaching perfect information. The less information, the less close you are to a model of perfect information.

It is this lazy attitude that throws our hands up in the air and says "well, they're going to do whatever they want" that leads to statism and destroys democracy. At some point it is incumbent on citizens to both inform themselves and voice their objections. Otherwise, we are all complicit in the evil deeds done by "the politicians" and their bedfellows.
Well stated, thank you.

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05-22-2012, 08:31 PM
  #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
So, um... what does this all mean?
People who hate it have something new to complain about.

People who love it have something new to defend.

This really isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

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05-23-2012, 01:04 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
People who hate it have something new to complain about.

People who love it have something new to defend.

This really isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
I agree.

I wonder if this thread shouldn't be closed, The deal is signed, the whole point of the thread was to discuss the impending deal and the implications were for the Jackets. Seems like that there is nothing more to discuss in that everything has now come to a conclusion.

But.... I am no mod, I didn't stay at the Holiday Inn last night, so this is just a suggestion.

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05-23-2012, 01:23 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Wow, if that's the best you got, there's no point in discussing...well, pretty much anything.



Umm, no. Which is exactly why I said at the outset I wasn't a fan of the "public plan".
Capn being Capn. Nothing to add, because if you were surprised this occurred you must jump at shadows frequently. Your modification of my post was pretty damn lame.

Dumb topic and silly to get all worked up about the article.

I'm done. Enjoy your teenage angst.

Frankly I don't care what plan would have worked for you. I've learned over the years that little works for you.

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05-23-2012, 05:35 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Nothing to add, because if you were surprised this occurred you must jump at shadows frequently.
Who said anything about being surprised? From day 1 the City and County were in this to hand a bunch of money to Nationwide to sustain their business. Standard operating procedure for the local government. Meanwhile, Nationwide's doing exactly as expected--getting as much as it can get from the transaction. So, no, I'm not shocked in the least that they also figured they might as well have total control as if the Arena never changed hands in the first place.

That said, since the general attitude is "they can do whatever they want", guess what? They'll continue to do this sort of thing, getting more and more brazen every time. Maybe we can just hand our taxes directly to Nationwide in the future and save the expense of the City and County bureaucracy.

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10-24-2012, 08:45 PM
  #382
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Arena lease agreement repeal

Just read on Dark Blue Jacket that a group is presenting a petition to Columbus City Council to repeal the city's lease agreement on Nationwide -or- put the question to a public vote. Anybody have any info on this?

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10-24-2012, 08:57 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by CBJfan4evr View Post
Just read on Dark Blue Jacket that a group is presenting a petition to Columbus City Council to repeal the city's lease agreement on Nationwide -or- put the question to a public vote. Anybody have any info on this?
http://columbuscoalition.info/?page_id=13

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10-24-2012, 09:10 PM
  #384
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Thanks for the info. Looks like they've got about 5% of the petitions they need to get this on the ballot. Wonder how long they have to gather petitions? This info really caught me off guard.

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10-25-2012, 02:39 AM
  #385
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"DARE 2B FAIR"

Can't say I'll take this initiative too seriously

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10-25-2012, 07:37 AM
  #386
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I'm not sure what this could possibly accomplish. The sale is a done deal. Both the CBJ and Nationwide are private companies. With the deal being done, I don't see how the city could force them to take the arena back if this went through. That could get pretty ugly and damage a lot of relationships, especially between Nationwide and the city.

The only other option the city would have would be to sell the arena to another 3rd party. That would certainly lead to a greater loss for the city since they would ultimately sell the arena for pennies because the people "forced" them to get rid of the arena.

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10-25-2012, 08:03 AM
  #387
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Of course there is.

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10-25-2012, 09:33 AM
  #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjoshjosh View Post
"DARE 2B FAIR"

Can't say I'll take this initiative too seriously
Guess "Taxpayers for Nationwide Arena" was taken.

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10-25-2012, 09:42 AM
  #389
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this is why we can't have nice things...

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10-25-2012, 11:16 AM
  #390
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The small minded will never be happy with this deal, or that it was done without a 'vote'

Never mind the facts, never mind the details, they'll just use buzzwords like bailout and 'taxpayer dollars' to fuel their agenda.

It kind of surprises me that DBJ would do a post like this, essentially 'retweeting' what another media type mentioned. This other media type has never been particularly shy about his tepid feelings about the arena deal. IMO, the only reason he mentioned it at all is because he believes in it. Not sure why DBJ would assist. Honestly, the effort doesn't deserve the time of day, IMO.

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10-25-2012, 11:25 AM
  #391
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Originally Posted by SuperGenius View Post
Honestly, the effort doesn't deserve the time of day, IMO.
This.

The movement is trying to paint the scenario as a bailout of Nationwide Insurance which is a multibillion dollar company.

Really what it was was the city taking control of a valuable civic asset in the Arena. Nationwide Arena is less a business venture and more a community asset for entertainment and exposure. Is it a business venture? Sure but its primary purpose is a civic center.

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10-25-2012, 11:42 AM
  #392
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It's an asset that drives business ...
...that impacts local revenue ...
...which generates taxes ...
...which eases the burden on the local tax payer ...
...while allowing the city to maintain services.


Real tough concept to comprehend.

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10-25-2012, 11:55 AM
  #393
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I'm no legal expert, but a quick google search says you can't get referendums for

1. Laws providing for tax levies
2. Appropriations for current expenses
3. Emergency laws.

Source

I'd imagine this falls under option #2.

So basically, I wouldn't lose any sleep over a few extremists being ********.

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10-25-2012, 12:10 PM
  #394
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Whenever I hear folks say "we deserve a vote on ALL the things", I think of California.

Do your due diligence when hiring people electing leaders. Don't micromanage. I'm not sure why these are so impossible.

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10-25-2012, 01:32 PM
  #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperGenius View Post
The small minded will never be happy with this deal, or that it was done without a 'vote'

Never mind the facts, never mind the details, they'll just use buzzwords like bailout and 'taxpayer dollars' to fuel their agenda.

It kind of surprises me that DBJ would do a post like this, essentially 'retweeting' what another media type mentioned. This other media type has never been particularly shy about his tepid feelings about the arena deal. IMO, the only reason he mentioned it at all is because he believes in it. Not sure why DBJ would assist. Honestly, the effort doesn't deserve the time of day, IMO.
It's funny to think that this is the worst thing imaginable, when:

1) The state of Ohio floated $15 million to Ohio State for "architectural surveys/studies" for Value City Arena, but rejected $1 million for feasibility studies to see if a non-campus arena would be doable.

2) Huntington Park was unilaterally decided on behind closed doors, without a public referendum, with no apparent backlash. And it was put right next to an arena and district that the city/county never really wanted in the first place.

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10-25-2012, 03:06 PM
  #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
I'm no legal expert, but a quick google search says you can't get referendums for

1. Laws providing for tax levies
2. Appropriations for current expenses
3. Emergency laws.

Source

I'd imagine this falls under option #2.

So basically, I wouldn't lose any sleep over a few extremists being ********.
Nice analysis. Well said. Thanks

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Old
10-25-2012, 05:48 PM
  #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
It's funny to think that this is the worst thing imaginable, when:

1) The state of Ohio floated $15 million to Ohio State for "architectural surveys/studies" for Value City Arena, but rejected $1 million for feasibility studies to see if a non-campus arena would be doable.

2) Huntington Park was unilaterally decided on behind closed doors, without a public referendum, with no apparent backlash. And it was put right next to an arena and district that the city/county never really wanted in the first place.
Honestly, I think the only reason we notice any sort of "backlash" against the Nat is because we're paying attention. I've seen folks complain about Huntington Park repeatedly - especially the contractor bidding. But they're kind of on the fringe.

Then again, I also like to think of it this way:
* Public funding for an arena has been rejected repeatedly by Franklin County voters.
* A casino in the area has ALSO been rejected repeatedly by Franklin County voters.
* There is now a casino here, and we have been unable to stop it coming here - the rest of the state generously outvoted us. Nonetheless, it provides additional funds.
* Those additional funds are being spent on the arena.

So why kvetch specifically about the arena, to the exclusion of all else?

I know, I know, I'm asking extremists to make sense... silly viqsi...

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01-10-2013, 04:46 PM
  #398
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Please. Carolina's afterglow lasted for about two weeks before people started clamoring for them to be seized and shipped off somewhere else.
Can't say that I've heard a lot about moving Carolina lately, Columbus and Phoenix seem to be on everyone's list as the two teams that should head for Canada. Never mind the fact that despite finishing dead last, we averaged over 14500 last year, a figure that the Islanders haven't seen in 10 years. The Isles have been at the bottom in the league for a decade yet they are never mentioned as being a franchise that should be moved.

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01-10-2013, 05:56 PM
  #399
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Can't say that I've heard a lot about moving Carolina lately, Columbus and Phoenix seem to be on everyone's list as the two teams that should head for Canada. Never mind the fact that despite finishing dead last, we averaged over 14500 last year, a figure that the Islanders haven't seen in 10 years. The Isles have been at the bottom in the league for a decade yet they are never mentioned as being a franchise that should be moved.
I see Florida and Phoenix most of all. Carolina comes up from the morons who think hockey requires Arctic temperature to survive in a market, but those people should never be taken seriously.

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01-10-2013, 06:35 PM
  #400
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Can't say that I've heard a lot about moving Carolina lately, Columbus and Phoenix seem to be on everyone's list as the two teams that should head for Canada. Never mind the fact that despite finishing dead last, we averaged over 14500 last year, a figure that the Islanders haven't seen in 10 years. The Isles have been at the bottom in the league for a decade yet they are never mentioned as being a franchise that should be moved.
The teams that move aren't the teams that do the worst. They're the teams that are for sale. Now, often the teams that lose the most money and are for sale ARE the worst teams. But that doesn't mean all bad teams are for sale or that all bad teams are to be moved.

Bottom line is whether or not McConnell wants to sell. If anyone has heard him change his mind about owning the team, let them speak up.

Numerous teams are for sale or are looking for a new owner in the NHL. Hilariously and most frustratingly for those who wear maple leaf underwear, Columbus isn't one of them.

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