HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid - News on Daniel Alfredsson's Motivation

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-25-2012, 12:32 PM
  #26
saskriders
ColinGreening's#1fan
 
saskriders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Calgary/Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,790
vCash: 500
Alfie saved the team by taking pay cuts.

Also, the whole cup argument is ridiculous. To me it seems just like something that fans of spoiled teams would say, where they have gotten to the point where they can't appreciate other accomplishments.

And to think our cup run sucked is a joke. That whole playoffs the first game we lost by more than one goal. Imagine if we had just one or two more bounces go our way in the other games we lost in the finals. Not to mention Anaheim was a great team that year.

saskriders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 12:43 PM
  #27
CanadianHockey
Smith - Alfie
 
CanadianHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,742
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by saskriders View Post
Alfie saved the team by taking pay cuts.

Also, the whole cup argument is ridiculous. To me it seems just like something that fans of spoiled teams would say, where they have gotten to the point where they can't appreciate other accomplishments.

And to think our cup run sucked is a joke. That whole playoffs the first game we lost by more than one goal. Imagine if we had just one or two more bounces go our way in the other games we lost in the finals. Not to mention Anaheim was a great team that year.
Alfie was only a very small part of it.

Bettman and Melnyk are bigger reasons why this team is still in Ottawa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Those things are nice, but they have no substance. Saying he is has displayed more heart that any Senator ever...well that's arguable at best, and really, that kind of reminds me of the joke about winning a gold medal at the special olympics.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that Ottawa is a team with a relatively short history, and the fans are wishing someone into hero status.

I would never question Alfredsson's heart, desire to win, or skill, but I just don't think he's a great leader, and he's certainly not one of the best right winger's to play in his era.

He's never led us to a championship. He never had the impact on the team that guys like Joe Nieuwendyk, Gary Roberts or Doug Gilmour had on the Leafs or Devils. He's not Marc Messier.

I really think that he was miscast as Captain way back when. The team took the C from Yashin as punishment, and gave it to Alfredsson pretty much by default. He was never a leader then. What he was, was "not Yashin"

I think the best captain we ever had was Randy Cunneyworth.

Anyway I know that I won't change any minds here. But surely I am not the only one that sees it this way.
I sort of agree with you, in that if I were to try and rank Alfie among other players, he isn't one of the all-time greatest players in NHL history. He's a borderline Hall of Famer, to be honest. However, I disagree with your opinion that we are unfairly elevating him. Every young franchise has done this with their early players. It's a necessary part of building traditions.

Just look at Edmonton's retired players:
3 Al Hamilton, D, 1972–80, number retired in 1980 (jersey ceremony held April 4, 2001)
7 Paul Coffey, D, 1980–87, number retired October 18, 2005
9 Glenn Anderson, RW, 1980–91, 1995–96, number retired January 18, 2009
11 Mark Messier, LW, 1979–91, number retired February 27, 2007
17 Jari Kurri, RW, 1980–90, number retired October 6, 2001
31 Grant Fuhr, G, 1981–91, number retired October 9, 2003
99 Wayne Gretzky, C, 1978–88, number retired October 1, 1999

One of these names is not like the others - Al Hamilton. Why's he there? Quite obviously because he DID have a major impact on a young franchise. It's the same with Alfie. Sure, in 50 years he might be the worst of our retired numbers, but he was still one of the best Senators of his era and helped elevate the club from an expansion team to an established one.

__________________
CanadianHockey________ __ __________Sens, Oilers, and Team Canada

Last edited by CanadianHockey: 10-25-2012 at 12:49 PM.
CanadianHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 12:50 PM
  #28
masterandy
Registered User
 
masterandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,019
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
I just don't get where all these accolades come from, because it's certainly not from achieving anything "uncanny and beyond inspirational".
Alfredsson is "beyond inspirational". For a team that had many stars come and go, and players that have held out for better contracts..Alfredsson has done more than his fair share to be inspirational to his teamates, fans, family, and organization.

Pretty much sums up the previous poster. I guess it's all stats for you.

masterandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 12:50 PM
  #29
John Holmes*
Spuds MacLean™
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,211
vCash: 500
All those guys have cups, and played significant roles in winning them. Niuewendyk, Roberts and Gilmour all won in Calgary, Niewy again in Dallas and even though he was injured in the NJD cup run in 2003, he was still a part of the team and was huge in getting them there. Hardly "complimentary".

Messier has 6.

Alfie is not Pavel Bure, Alex Mogilny, Brett Hull, Teemu Selanne, do I really need to continue? I can.

I know it takes a good team, and particularly good goaltending to go anywhere in the playoffs. I'm not the one pumping Alfie up into god status here.

I'm just saying he was not and is not that guy. I expected nothing less than all the ******** I've seen so far.

John Holmes* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 12:52 PM
  #30
NyQuil
Setec Astronomy
 
NyQuil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NyLand
Country: Canada
Posts: 43,552
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
All those guys have cups, and played significant roles in winning them.
Ok, so then why did you say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes
He never had the impact on the team that guys like Joe Nieuwendyk, Gary Roberts or Doug Gilmour had on the Leafs or Devils.
There was no need for it and it doesn't even make sense. Alfie's team made it further than both of the Leafs and he was the leading scorer of that team. Nieuwendyk with the Devils was a non-factor in the most important series of them all.

If you want to say, Alfredsson is a player who never won a Cup, then fine.

Point made.

Your bizarre affectation for the Leafs "playoff success" is out of sync with your apparent dedication to objectivity.

This is a team that has never played 4 rounds of playoff hockey. I think we can find better role models.

NyQuil is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 12:52 PM
  #31
masterandy
Registered User
 
masterandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,019
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
All those guys have cups, and played significant roles in winning them. Niuewendyk, Roberts and Gilmour all won in Calgary, Niewy again in Dallas and even though he was injured in the NJD cup run in 2003, he was still a part of the team and was huge in getting them there. Hardly "complimentary".

Messier has 6.

Alfie is not Pavel Bure, Alex Mogilny, Brett Hull, Teemu Selanne, do I really need to continue? I can.

I know it takes a good team, and particularly good goaltending to go anywhere in the playoffs. I'm not the one pumping Alfie up into god status here.

I'm just saying he was not and is not that guy. I expected nothing less than all the ******** I've seen so far.
Then you are just trolling.

masterandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 01:16 PM
  #32
John Holmes*
Spuds MacLean™
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,211
vCash: 500
Just having an opinion isn't trolling. I didn't start a thread that says Alfredsson sucks, I just commented on a statement that was bordering on...well let's just say if I continue that sentence, I'll get myself in trouble.

John Holmes* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 01:23 PM
  #33
Tuna99
Registered User
 
Tuna99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,292
vCash: 500
I was never a fan of Bettman really, but now I fruggin' hate him for making Alfie second guess anything and lose his motivation to the team because the business side of it has taken things over.

Alfie has been through a bankruptcy were he didn't get paid and didn't say a bad word about his old owner, years of ownership turmoil in Ottawa, a full season lockout and all he's given back to the game is everything he could possibly give.

Guys like Alfie build the NHL to $3.3 billion industry - no fan on this site or in the entire NHL universe gives a **** who the commisionaire is - if Bettman got fired notbody would bat an eye, if Alfie retired because of this lockout fans in Ottawa would be heartbroken and it would make us hate the NHL and Bettman for a while - it would be like the pissed-off-ness of Winnipeg losing the Jets but maybe not as severe

Tuna99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 01:27 PM
  #34
NyQuil
Setec Astronomy
 
NyQuil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NyLand
Country: Canada
Posts: 43,552
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Just having an opinion isn't trolling. I didn't start a thread that says Alfredsson sucks, I just commented on a statement that was bordering on...well let's just say if I continue that sentence, I'll get myself in trouble.
He's the best player this franchise has ever had in terms of his overall contribution to the team.

Obviously there is no bar before he came along, unless it's Yashin or Daigle, and that's not really a bar at all.

Heatley and Chara weren't really here long enough. Spezza still has to make his name.

Now that he's set it, we'll see if someone else out there can exceed it, through personal accomplishments or team accomplishments or both.

You may like Cunneyworth as a Captain, but he had even less success than Alfredsson, and was a worse player.

He's not one of the titans of NHL history, we're all in agreement there.

No need to feel so oppressed.

NyQuil is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 01:59 PM
  #35
Icelevel
little bit better
 
Icelevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,409
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Just having an opinion isn't trolling. I didn't start a thread that says Alfredsson sucks, I just commented on a statement that was bordering on...well let's just say if I continue that sentence, I'll get myself in trouble.
are you a young kid? have you been a fan for a long time? do you watch a lot of the games?

just curious. (not trying to start anything)

Icelevel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 02:40 PM
  #36
NyQuil
Setec Astronomy
 
NyQuil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NyLand
Country: Canada
Posts: 43,552
vCash: 500
Depending on the point he's trying to make, J. Holmes is all over the map.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes
I would never question Alfredsson's heart, desire to win, or skill, but I just don't think he's a great leader
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes
Guys like Alfie and Phillips would NEVER pull that with fans. Real leaders.
Ok?

NyQuil is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 02:45 PM
  #37
CanadianHockey
Smith - Alfie
 
CanadianHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,742
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
Depending on the point he's trying to make, J. Holmes is all over the map.





Ok?
Oh, snap!

CanadianHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 02:52 PM
  #38
John Holmes*
Spuds MacLean™
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,211
vCash: 500


Sure, he is the team leader. He's just not a god among mortals like many of you like to portray him.

Let's look at a similar guy. Trevor Linden in Vancouver. He was that team for a lot of years. He probably did more community work than Alfredsson. He has a charitable foundation. He gave everything he had to that team and city. People love him there.

You don't hear Van Fan bleating on about how Trevor Linden was god, etc.

Anyway as I said, I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. To quote the great Dandyman, "you're allowed to be wrong".

Oh yeah I forgot.

Fan and community interactions < Accomplishments on the ice.

John Holmes* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 02:55 PM
  #39
NyQuil
Setec Astronomy
 
NyQuil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NyLand
Country: Canada
Posts: 43,552
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post


Sure, he is the team leader. He's just not a god among mortals like many of you like to portray him.

Let's look at a similar guy. Trevor Linden in Vancouver. He was that team for a lot of years. He probably did more community work than Alfredsson. He has a charitable foundation. He gave everything he had to that team and city. People love him there.

You don't hear Van Fan bleating on about how Trevor Linden was god, etc.

Anyway as I said, I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. To quote the great Dandyman, "you're allowed to be wrong".
I think he's closer to Trevor Linden than he is to Mark Messier, but he's still better than Trevor Linden.

I think Jarome Iginla is a good comparable. Finals appearance, no Cups, a few good seasons, consistent production, face of the franchise for a good period of time.

NyQuil is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 02:58 PM
  #40
John Holmes*
Spuds MacLean™
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,211
vCash: 500
Iginla is better.

John Holmes* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 02:59 PM
  #41
MAK19
FreeWierciochBanAndy
 
MAK19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Madrid
Posts: 13,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Iginla is better.
nope

MAK19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 03:12 PM
  #42
DaveMatthew
Registered User
 
DaveMatthew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 6,648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Iginla is better.
How so?

You criticize Alfredsson for never having lead Ottawa to a cup (like Gary Roberts and Doug Gilmour apparently did with the Leafs…), but Jarome Iginla has only been out of the first round once in his entire career. Yes he had a great run to the finals, but so did Alfredsson. Hell, Alfredsson had the same amount of points in 6 less games in his run.

Iginla’s been in the league 15 years and has seen the playoffs 4 times. Alfredsson’s been in the league 16 years and has seen the playoffs 13 times.

Who exactly isn’t leading their team anywhere?

Alfredsson even has more career points than Iginla in less career games.

So how’s Iginla better? Is it because, for whatever reason, there’s some myth out there that he’s this bad ass power forward because he’s gotten in a couple of fights?

Well I hate to break it to you, if you watch the Flames, Iginla has games where he floats more than Dany Heatley.

Your argument, quite honestly, has no logic.

DaveMatthew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 03:21 PM
  #43
Kellogs
G'night Sweet Prince
 
Kellogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,129
vCash: 500
It could be argued that Iginla had a better peak, and a lot of the negatives in his corner (ie. playoff appearances) are very team dependent. Iginla won an Art Ross, 2x Rocket Richard, and Pearson trophies, along with being a three time first team all-star, and a second team all-star. Alfie only has a single second all-star team nomination and a calder to his credit. Iginla's hardware is significantly more impressive than Alfredsson's, and many times in head to head competition was considered the better right winger by hockey journalists.

Kellogs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 03:27 PM
  #44
MAK19
FreeWierciochBanAndy
 
MAK19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Madrid
Posts: 13,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellogs View Post
It could be argued that Iginla had a better peak, and a lot of the negatives in his corner (ie. playoff appearances) are very team dependent. Iginla won an Art Ross, 2x Rocket Richard, and Pearson trophies, along with being a three time first team all-star, and a second team all-star. Alfie only has a single second all-star team nomination and a calder to his credit. Iginla's hardware is significantly more impressive than Alfredsson's, and many times in head to head competition was considered the better right winger by hockey journalists.
Newsflash, it's not just about offense, and Alfie has been more consistent in that regard anyway.

MAK19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 03:33 PM
  #45
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 23,466
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Iginla is better.
Negligible if any.

Bring it to a poll and the fact he's Canadian biases the results massively.

Minister of Offence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 03:35 PM
  #46
NyQuil
Setec Astronomy
 
NyQuil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NyLand
Country: Canada
Posts: 43,552
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellogs View Post
It could be argued that Iginla had a better peak, and a lot of the negatives in his corner (ie. playoff appearances) are very team dependent. Iginla won an Art Ross, 2x Rocket Richard, and Pearson trophies, along with being a three time first team all-star, and a second team all-star. Alfie only has a single second all-star team nomination and a calder to his credit. Iginla's hardware is significantly more impressive than Alfredsson's, and many times in head to head competition was considered the better right winger by hockey journalists.
Sure, but he's a better comparable than Trevor Linden.

Alfie has more points in his career, he's been more consistent offensively throughout his career.

I don't care if people say Iginla is better, but not by a great degree IMO.

NyQuil is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 03:39 PM
  #47
Germz
4th liners ftw
 
Germz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,885
vCash: 500
Alfredsson is leagues better and more significant than Linden was.

Linden had his offensive peak in a higher scoring era and still only topped out at 80 points despite rarely missing games with injury. Despite playing all those years in a high scoring era, Linden retired without even sniffing 900 points in 1382 games; Alfredsson has over 200 more points in 200 fewer games. Linden was captain of the Canucks for 7 years, which is the second-longest in franchise history (Stan Smyl). Alfredsson has been captain of the Senators for 13 years out of the franchise's 20-year existence.

Alfredsson once finished top-5 in league scoring; Linden never came remotely close. Alfredsson has been to 6 all-star games to Linden's 2. Alfredsson made it onto the second all-star team into 2006, judged 2nd-best at his position; I guarantee you that Linden was never even in consideration, even at his best.

Linden had a brilliant playoff in 1994 but he didn't lead his team in playoff scoring; Pavel Bure did. Alfredsson by contrast, led the whole league in playoff goals in 2007, DOUBLING the total of his next closest teammate (Spezza and Heatley tie).

Alfredsson had a better career, better peak, and a more significant place in his franchise's history than Linden did. It's no comparison.

Holmie, I understand that you are annoyed by our fans tendency to deify Alfredsson. But that's no reason to undercut the man's accomplishments. He has had one of the finest overall careers of any forward of his generation, and he gave a consistent public face to an expansion team that was struggling to build a brand around a series of early first-round picks who just weren't cut out for the franchise player role.

Iginla is a different story. He's a clear-cut HHOFer while a guy like Alfie is borderline and Linden is a non-starter. The hardware alone seals the deal. His consistency has been lacking at times, but his accomplishments are undeniable. In the low-scoring 2004 season he won the Richard Trophy. True he only had 41 goals, but his next closest teammate was Shean freakin Donovan with 18.

Germz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 03:46 PM
  #48
Germz
4th liners ftw
 
Germz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,885
vCash: 500
The only time that I ever doubted Alfredsson as captain was during the last lockout. That 2004 playoff loss was so crushing, it left such a bitter taste in the mouth. But he has more than redeemed himself for that. He has learned on the job and that has made us love him even more.

Germz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 03:51 PM
  #49
saskriders
ColinGreening's#1fan
 
saskriders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Calgary/Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post


Sure, he is the team leader. He's just not a god among mortals like many of you like to portray him.

Let's look at a similar guy. Trevor Linden in Vancouver. He was that team for a lot of years. He probably did more community work than Alfredsson. He has a charitable foundation. He gave everything he had to that team and city. People love him there.

You don't hear Van Fan bleating on about how Trevor Linden was god, etc.

Anyway as I said, I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. To quote the great Dandyman, "you're allowed to be wrong".

Oh yeah I forgot.

Fan and community interactions < Accomplishments on the ice.
The difference is Vancouver has had the Sedins, Naslund, and Bertuzzi to name a few.

All our best players before Alfie played before most if not all of our parents were born.

Before Alfie all we had was a greedy *******, the biggest bust of all time, and a bunch of fourth liners

saskriders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2012, 05:05 PM
  #50
Legend Killer
Registered User
 
Legend Killer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,494
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
says the guy who worships Foligno even more for no apparent reason



He's a career Sen, the all time leader in games played and the longest serving captain in the league, by far. How many years has he been the captain now? He's shown tremendous commitment to the city and team.

That alone, even if he was an average or bad player, would make him special. Add that he's a great player, one of the very best at his positions pretty every season of his career, that he leads the team all time in points and that he has displayed more heart and desire to win than any other Senator ever, that's why he is worshiped.
What does me being a Foligno fan have to do with being able to offer an opinion on Alfredsson??

What is wrong with calling him a great player, franchise leader in every statistical category, and a great citizen?

I dont get the God like worship either... but thats just me... if you want to start an Alfie chant after he clears the puck on a PK... go for it

Legend Killer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:18 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.