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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part V: The "Back to square one" Edition

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10-25-2012, 02:25 PM
  #676
Riche16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
It was his real account.
That's.

Not good.

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10-25-2012, 02:27 PM
  #677
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Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN
Asked someone of prominence who's been active in staging several Winter Classics about the % of Michigan WC happening. "ZERO" he said.

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10-25-2012, 02:30 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN
Asked someone of prominence who's been active in staging several Winter Classics about the % of Michigan WC happening. "ZERO" he said.
That would really be a back-breaker for the season.

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10-25-2012, 02:38 PM
  #679
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If the WC goes, the season is toast IMO. Preserving that is the only real leverage the players have at this point. If that goes the owners will have nothing else left to lose and will proceed to grind the PA out. And I anticipate that taking a while because for their part the PA have shown that that the ego war is more important than their own financial well being.

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10-25-2012, 02:40 PM
  #680
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Where are you guys reading that the WC is going to be cancelled?

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10-25-2012, 02:41 PM
  #681
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The NHL can't afford to lose another season. The NHLPA can't afford to lose another season. Its October 25. Cancelled games can be rescheduled. They can play a 70 plus game season starting in mid to late November.

Quote:
The NHL will withdraw its latest proposal to the NHLPA once today's deadline comes and goes. Story to be posted shortly.
https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...52330133086208

NBA did the same thing. Its a script.

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10-25-2012, 02:42 PM
  #682
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The NHL will withdraw its latest proposal to the NHL Players' Association once Thursday's deadline to have a new deal in place comes and goes.

There were no talks held again Thursday and none have been held since last week's NHL proposal and counter-proposals from the NHLPA.

"When we delivered the proposal last Tuesday, we told them it would be on the table through today," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told ESPN.com Thursday afternoon. "Having not reached agreement through today, I expect that we'll formally notify the union Friday that the proposal is no longer on the table. We're going to take it back internally and figure out where we go from here."
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/85...eadline-passes

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10-25-2012, 02:43 PM
  #683
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LeBrun provided the link

Quote:
"When we delivered the proposal last Tuesday, we told them it would be on the table through today," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told ESPN.com Thursday afternoon. "Having not reached agreement through today, I expect that we'll formally notify the union Friday that the proposal is no longer on the table. We're going to take it back internally and figure out where we go from here."
Quote:
"This is a standard approach, I think it was done in the NBA in the same way," Fehr told ESPN.com Thursday. "Review the history here: they make a proposal, it's essentially a take it or leave it, we respond on the core economics, they take 10 minutes and say no. They tell all the players if we're agreeable to everything except the Make Whole (provision), including all the stuff that's in there, I can give Gary a telephone call. And then we have made several efforts, including yesterday, to say we're prepared to sit down and negotiate with no pre-conditions. They essentially said 'No.'
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/85...eadline-passes

Same law firm represents the NBA and NHL. Same playbook.

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10-25-2012, 02:56 PM
  #684
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"It takes two to negotiate. They seem to be really good at imposing deadlines and issuing ultimatums and having lockouts. It seems to be something they're well-practiced at."
The only thing Fehr has said that's accurate in a while now.

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10-25-2012, 03:00 PM
  #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
A few hints about that NHL exec. He works on the business side. That's make it hard to figure out the identity.

He is from the north. Defenseman in college. 1 year in the minors. He wasn't in his position in the last lockout. Doesn't work for a Canadian team. Not BOS,COL and NYI. His owner thinks the NHL will play this season.
He says that you need european scouts, hence he doesn't work for Carolina!

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10-25-2012, 03:02 PM
  #686
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Lundqvist's tweet was one of the stupid things I've ever read. Then Richards agreed with him.
Was it a while ago? Or is it one of the ones in a foreign language? I don't see anything that jumps out at my as particularly stupid, but that doesn't mean its not there - I just can't find it. Can I get a link or a copy and paste or something?

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10-25-2012, 03:10 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by RL605 View Post
Canceling the WC game that is planned for 1/1/13?

Goodbye season.

I don't even care anymore. **** this league and Bettman. I don't want some garbage 30 game schedule or so. Just cancel it all so I don't have to keep checking twitter every minute for good news. Seriously the most pathetic run business in the history of business. Can't even figure something out and compromise. Rather lose on millions just to save a few million. Only pathetic league to have 2 lockout in under a decade.
I agree with this post 100% because I am just as frustrated as you are. It seems at this point there won't be any season, so just pulling the plug completely would make this whole thing so much easier on all of us. I am pulling the hair out of my head trying to understand why they say "If the offer isn't accepted by the 25th its off the table", yet they refuse to have any kind of negotiations on the days leading up to it or on the said "deadline date"

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10-25-2012, 03:15 PM
  #688
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I agree with this post 100% because I am just as frustrated as you are. It seems at this point there won't be any season, so just pulling the plug completely would make this whole thing so much easier on all of us. I am pulling the hair out of my head trying to understand why they say "If the offer isn't accepted by the 25th its off the table", yet they refuse to have any kind of negotiations on the days leading up to it or on the said "deadline date"
The owners wanted the PA to "negotiate" off of the most recent owners offer. Instead, the PA brought to the "negotiation" table three offers of the PAs first offer. That's why Bettman "stormed out" after 10 minutes. That's why the NHL is refusing to meet the Union.

http://twitter.com/KKurzCSN/statuses/261560763876007937

(Dan Boyle)

Quote:
Boyle: “It’s supposed to be a negotiation, and I think right now both sides think it’s their way of the highway." Yes, he said BOTH sides.

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10-25-2012, 03:20 PM
  #689
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Gary Bettman is very frustrated. You can tell by looking at him yesterday during the Islanders press conference.

Dan Boyle was ripping the NHL a few weeks ago

Today he went after both sides

Quote:
Boyle: “It’s supposed to be a negotiation, and I think right now both sides think it’s their way of the highway." Yes, he said BOTH sides.
Quote:
Typo in last tweet…obviously meant "OR the highway."
https://twitter.com/KKurzCSN/status/261561284070350849

Boyle was around for the last lockout.

There are many owners which want to play. They can't make public statements.


Last edited by RangerBoy: 10-25-2012 at 03:25 PM.
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Old
10-25-2012, 03:24 PM
  #690
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Dan Boyle from a few weeks ago

Quote:
“I don’t think they’re serious about doing anything until we start missing some checks,” Boyle repeated, after skating at Sharks Ice on Thursday morning.
Quote:
“They say it’s our turn, or whatever, but they don’t want to negotiate until we start missing some checks,” he said.

“I don’t see anything happening for the next couple months. I know that’s very pessimistic of me, and I really hope I’m wrong. But the eight guys…what if there’s 22 teams out there that want to play right now? How do eight teams control their fate? That bothers me the most.”
http://www.csnbayarea.com/hockey-san...3&feedID=10290

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10-25-2012, 03:37 PM
  #691
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I understand why Fehr wouldn't be. But the players he represents?
Because the players hired him so that they do not get bent over. And they will follow him.
Quote:
That's two lost years of earnings and two lost years of playing time.
I do not disagree But I beleive that they will follow Fehr.
Quote:
An owner's career on the other hand can go on for decades (just look at Dolan!) and, when it's over, the club is sold for a big cash price or left to his heirs to continue the process.

I'm not minimizing the cost to the owners, but I see a two year lockout as crippling to the players.
yes, but when the club has not brought in ANY income, value goes down Rangers are worth what? I do not recall, but lets' say between $400-500. Maybe more. If this season is canceled, the sole revenue that they bring in is from the season tickets being sold. The anciliary revenue is gone. But not teh anciliary fixed expenses. Now go to next year. Now there is not one penny from ticket sales either. Now you have an albatross of an investment and the fixed expenses that go with it, and NOTHING else. Not only that, but with two canceled seasons, the NHL will now play the last two years of the television contract completely for free.

IMO, THAT is what Fehr believes will eventually break the owners.

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10-25-2012, 03:47 PM
  #692
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Originally Posted by NYRangers88 View Post
Where are you guys reading that the WC is going to be cancelled?
The handwriting is on the wall that if negotiations don,t start soon they will have to cancel the Winter Classic. I would guess the NHL would need an agreement by December 1st at the latest and labor negotiations usually take about 2 weeks if it isn,t rushed so I would say in order to save the WC the NHL and the NHLPA would have to sit down in the next 2-3 weeks.which is not that must time. Ideally both sides would sit down and hammer out a deal.

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10-25-2012, 03:48 PM
  #693
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
It was his real account.

Please post?

Because his real twitter is HLundqvist30.

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10-25-2012, 03:51 PM
  #694
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Because the players hired him so that they do not get bent over. And they will follow him.

I do not disagree But I beleive that they will follow Fehr.

yes, but when the club has not brought in ANY income, value goes down Rangers are worth what? I do not recall, but lets' say between $400-500. Maybe more. If this season is canceled, the sole revenue that they bring in is from the season tickets being sold. The anciliary revenue is gone. But not teh anciliary fixed expenses. Now go to next year. Now there is not one penny from ticket sales either. Now you have an albatross of an investment and the fixed expenses that go with it, and NOTHING else. Not only that, but with two canceled seasons, the NHL will now play the last two years of the television contract completely for free.

IMO, THAT is what Fehr believes will eventually break the owners.
I would be absolutely shocked to see this extend over two years in order to bridge the gap that exists between the two sides now. Doing so would absolutely destroy the league for both sides. Even if the players got more than what they're asking for now, they'd lose big time by coming back to a league that is a shell of it's former self. Casual fans would be gone and I'd bet that most hardcore fans would have found other ways to watch hockey by then.

Also, I don't believe for one second that the PA is prepared to not get paid for two years. They would and will split long before then.

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10-25-2012, 03:53 PM
  #695
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It's disappointing for the owners that truly want to play hockey. They have little say because of the "8-man" negotiating group, which is in reality a 4-man group.

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10-25-2012, 03:54 PM
  #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
yes, but when the club has not brought in ANY income, value goes down Rangers are worth what? I do not recall, but lets' say between $400-500. Maybe more. If this season is canceled, the sole revenue that they bring in is from the season tickets being sold. The anciliary revenue is gone. But not teh anciliary fixed expenses. Now go to next year. Now there is not one penny from ticket sales either. Now you have an albatross of an investment and the fixed expenses that go with it, and NOTHING else. Not only that, but with two canceled seasons, the NHL will now play the last two years of the television contract completely for free.

IMO, THAT is what Fehr believes will eventually break the owners.
Well if Fehr believes that I've got a bridge to sell him. The history of just about every single sports labor strife paints a pretty clear picture of where the leverage lies. Players do not win sports labor negotiations unless it is unintentional (see 2005 NHL CBA).

Sure, NHL owners have some fixed costs. But a lot of these costs (arena leases being the big one) can be minimized through other ways (booking more concerts/events for example). Also, as painful as it may be, the owners collectively will not be directly personally impacted to the same degree players are. A lost year of earnings for the superstar players is bad enough. But for the 50%+ of the PA that are 3rd/4th liners, enforcers, 35+ veterans, etc. a lost year of earnings is potentially disastrous.

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10-25-2012, 03:56 PM
  #697
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
Lundqvist's tweet was one of the stupid things I've ever read. Then Richards agreed with him.
What tweet?

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10-25-2012, 03:58 PM
  #698
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Michael McCann ‏@McCannSportsLaw

Games lost: Goodell: 6 yrs on job, 0 games; Bettman: 19 yrs, 1,698 games & counting; Selig: 20 yrs, 948 games; and Stern: 28 yrs, 704 games.

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10-25-2012, 03:58 PM
  #699
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Well if Fehr believes that I've got a bridge to sell him. The history of just about every single sports labor strife paints a pretty clear picture of where the leverage lies. Players do not win sports labor negotiations unless it is unintentional (see 2005 NHL CBA).

Sure, NHL owners have some fixed costs. But a lot of these costs (arena leases being the big one) can be minimized through other ways (booking more concerts/events for example). Also, as painful as it may be, the owners collectively will not be directly personally impacted to the same degree players are. A lost year of earnings for the superstar players is bad enough. But for the 50%+ of the PA that are 3rd/4th liners, enforcers, 35+ veterans, etc. a lost year of earnings is potentially disastrous.

Maybe he knows that and is just trying to get the best possible deal for the NHLPA, who continually gets no respect. At least the other PAs get something in return respect wise. Especially the MLB.

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10-25-2012, 03:59 PM
  #700
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It sucks that a few big market teams are digging in their heals solely for the reason of getting a discount on contracts. Boston has no logical reason to lockout, they turn a profit. Money grab is a blanket term and not necessarily fair for some small teams. It 100% applies to hawk #1 Jacobs.

-edit-


Last edited by DutchShamrock: 10-25-2012 at 08:03 PM.
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