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Old
10-25-2012, 08:43 AM
  #851
NHLFutureGuy3
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I've decided I'm taking a 'wake me up when it's over' approach to this lockout. I will not be looking at lockout threads or looking for updates on Sportcenter. I'm just sticking with NBA until it's all over.

Bye for now everyone!

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Old
10-25-2012, 09:46 AM
  #852
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**** 'em all!!

**** all the greedy/spoiled NHL players.
**** all the greedy/spoiled owners.
**** the NHLPA.
**** Bettman.

**** 'em all.

I hope there is a lockout next season as well...this way the players may get a small feeling of what many fans are going through.
Many fans have real jobs and have to do it 9 to 5 (Mon to Fri) and for a measly $20 000 to $50 000/year (on average). Meanwhile...these ****ing millionaires play hockey 8 months per year and get millions. **** 'em all.

The only reason the owners and players are millionaires is because of...fans.

Yet, every 5-6 seasons they continue ****ing fans up the ***.


The players know they'll get their money next season, but I hope they don't (lockout 2013-2014 as well, what the ****)...I hope they have to go to Europe next season for their millions.
If the fans making 20-50k a year were as good at what they do as NHL players then maybe people would play a small fortune to come watch them play and they'd make a lot more. Comparing an NHL player to a mall security guard is beyond moronic.

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10-25-2012, 12:56 PM
  #853
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I don't blame players for wanting to stay home. Why move to a foreign land if the benefits aren't there?

As for the lockout, I haven't been following. It's assumed there's gonna be no season, right?

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Old
10-25-2012, 01:14 PM
  #854
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Well personally if someone offered me the chance to get paid to live in some of the nicest parts of Europe (...or Russia), while at the same time staying in game shape and possibly even improving my game while learning to adapt to a different style of hockey, I wouldn't have to even think about it.

But I also don't have a family to worry about, and since this is hypothetical since I suck at hockey I'm not worried about hypothetical injuries.

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10-25-2012, 01:23 PM
  #855
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Another slow and painful day in hockey world. It's when there's a lockout you realize how much time you spent on hockey. Dat there student free time, I just do not know what to do I might just take a nap. Oh and **** the players.

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Old
10-25-2012, 02:18 PM
  #856
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I'm as frustrated with the incompetence of the NHL and the PA to reach an agreement since:
a) They have good and capable negotiators who can smartly craft a deal beneficial to both parties
b) This has become a stalemate, which is immature and insulting to fans (they say they care about fans, but they'd rather act like children for something that can be easily resolved)
c) Too much pride and rancour involved and not enough harmony. I generally respect hockey players as the having the most loyal and humble personalities compared to other sports. Not anymore.

That said, I won't deny that when it's back I'll be full force re-addicted to the Habs. Our allegiance will soon spring up after the first game where we dissect every play that happened and I don't believe for a second that when we play the leafs or bruins, us Habs fans will not be watching an very engaged. It's the nature of fandom. I also feel like I don't care right now, but when they come back (whenever that is), I'll be sporting the bleu-blanc-rouge. I do know others will be able to resist, but I'm just that much of a sucker, which makes me hate the players/owners that much more for taking advantage of me.

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Old
10-25-2012, 02:21 PM
  #857
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
I'm as frustrated with the incompetence of the NHL and the PA to reach an agreement since:
a) They have good and capable negotiators who can smartly craft a deal beneficial to both parties
b) This has become a stalemate, which is immature and insulting to fans (they say they care about fans, but they'd rather act like children for something that can be easily resolved)
c) Too much pride and rancour involved and not enough harmony. I generally respect hockey players as the having the most loyal and humble personalities compared to other sports. Not anymore.

That said, I won't deny that when it's back I'll be full force re-addicted to the Habs. Our allegiance will soon spring up after the first game where we dissect every play that happened and I don't believe for a second that when we play the leafs or bruins, us Habs fans will not be watching an very engaged. It's the nature of fandom. I also feel like I don't care right now, but when they come back (whenever that is), I'll be sporting the bleu-blanc-rouge. I do know others will be able to resist, but I'm just that much of a sucker, which makes me hate the players/owners that much more for taking advantage of me.


I'm just glad our Habs have more or less stayed out of the media when it comes to commenting on the lockout. If any of the Habs had gone off like Krys Barch, I'd be so disappointed.

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Old
10-25-2012, 04:24 PM
  #858
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People who blame the players for taking other players jobs in other leagues should realize that we're talking of about 100 players here, while the NHL owners are doing far worse with the possibility of having to lay off employes and all the connected businesses in cities with NHL teams, it's affecting over 10000 people... but hey bias is what it is...

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10-25-2012, 04:46 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
People who blame the players for taking other players jobs in other leagues should realize that we're talking of about 100 players here, while the NHL owners are doing far worse with the possibility of having to lay off employes and all the connected businesses in cities with NHL teams, it's affecting over 10000 people... but hey bias is what it is...
Yes, bias is what it is and yours is showing. The players want more money than the guys who pay the bills, they want 57% of all HRR BUT they also are not willing to include THEIR HRR in the entire pie. Why would any owner of a business put his money into a business where the people he hires can take the amount they want and don't even have to include the extra income they make due to the business they are a part of? People who blame the wners for wanting a fair and even share of the HRR, of their HRR, are definitely showing their bias...

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Old
10-25-2012, 04:51 PM
  #860
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
People who blame the players for taking other players jobs in other leagues should realize that we're talking of about 100 players here, while the NHL owners are doing far worse with the possibility of having to lay off employes and all the connected businesses in cities with NHL teams, it's affecting over 10000 people... but hey bias is what it is...
It'd be wrong for the players to take jobs if they were on strike, but they're not.

It is the owners who decided to proceed with a lockout in spite of both sides making spectacular income with 7% annual growth.

Effectively, the players were fired. Every single one of us would look for other work if we were locked out.

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Old
10-25-2012, 04:53 PM
  #861
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If the fans making 20-50k a year were as good at what they do as NHL players then maybe people would play a small fortune to come watch them play and they'd make a lot more. Comparing an NHL player to a mall security guard is beyond moronic.
Wow, hero worship on this site is insane. The Mall Security Guard actually helps people during the course of his job. Hockey players get paid to play a game that millions of people play for free throughout their lives. The best Security Guard isn't ever going to be someone people will pay to watch, but that does not mean he/she is not as good at what he/she does as any NHL player is. The difference is that one job is a form of entertainment while the other isn't. Thinking a mall cop who makes 20-50K a year is not as good at his job as an NHL player is at his is also moronic. The best mall cop in the world will never be entertaining or get the kind of money a hockey player does...even if that player is the worst in the NHL because they are totally different jobs, not because the player is the best at his and the mall cop isn't.

Wow, hockey fans who support the players love insulting regular people and seem to have their lips permanently grafted to the hind quarters of their little game heroes.

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Old
10-25-2012, 05:00 PM
  #862
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It'd be wrong for the players to take jobs if they were on strike, but they're not.

It is the owners who decided to proceed with a lockout in spite of both sides making spectacular income with 7% annual growth. Yes, because if that growth stops or starts to decrease they also start to lose money. There is no guarantee that the NHL will continue to grow at unprecedented levels.

Effectively, the players were fired. Every single one of us would look for other work if we were locked out. Every single one of us would HAVE to because we aren't millionaires.
If the players getting jobs were not the Ovechkin's and Kovalchuk's, I could understand it a bit more. When you have Ovechkin, a multi-millionaire, taking over 5 million away from a team in Russia and taking a spot away from a player who is not close to making that kind of money, it is a little hard to argue that he is doing what you or I would need to do. If the Darche's of the NHL were out there getting jobs to help pay the bills I would be far more sympathetic. However, I keep seeing the Nash, Ovechkin, Pacioretty, etc...types going out and getting paid with the lesser lights not being wanted in other leagues. So, the rich get to take jobs and money away from others who are not rich, and their lesser brethren get to sit at home and lose money they will need for their livelihood. Nice brotherhood there, players. Meh.

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Old
10-25-2012, 05:57 PM
  #863
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
If the players getting jobs were not the Ovechkin's and Kovalchuk's, I could understand it a bit more. When you have Ovechkin, a multi-millionaire, taking over 5 million away from a team in Russia and taking a spot away from a player who is not close to making that kind of money, it is a little hard to argue that he is doing what you or I would need to do. If the Darche's of the NHL were out there getting jobs to help pay the bills I would be far more sympathetic. However, I keep seeing the Nash, Ovechkin, Pacioretty, etc...types going out and getting paid with the lesser lights not being wanted in other leagues. So, the rich get to take jobs and money away from others who are not rich, and their lesser brethren get to sit at home and lose money they will need for their livelihood. Nice brotherhood there, players. Meh.
I don't make 5 million, but I'm not as good as Ovechkin. Either way, if I were locked out I would definitely go take another job if I could. Similarly if the Quebec government layed off all schoolteachers you would either find another career or you would live elsewhere where they appreciate teachers more. If you were to replace a "lesser light" of a teacher elsewhere, I would not hold it against you, and neither would the parents of that institution.

You also have a different view of how the entertainment business works. Alexander Ovechkin is not just taking a Russian job, he is creating Russian jobs. He is a superstar, and his play in the KHL can only be beneficial for the league's visibility, popularity and thus income. All the concession workers in that arena are probably getting more secure hours, for example. The owner of that team is no doubt making more money from increased ticket sales. I am sure the team he is on is happy to have him.

Quote:
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Yes, because if that growth stops or starts to decrease they also start to lose money. There is no guarantee that the NHL will continue to grow at unprecedented levels.
If the growth goes negative the salary cap can go back down to 39 million.

Quote:
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The difference is that one job is a form of entertainment while the other isn't.
Most entertainers make very little money.

You have to be in a field where tens of millions of people are paying hundreds of dollars a year and investing hundreds to thousands of hours to follow you and your actions. At that point you're doing a tremendous favour to the system, and are thus producing significant value.


Last edited by DAChampion: 10-25-2012 at 06:14 PM.
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Old
10-25-2012, 06:28 PM
  #864
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Wow, hero worship on this site is insane.
I agree. Anyone that says that Charles Wang deserves to make a profit is deluded.

Quote:
Wow, hockey fans who support the players love insulting regular people and seem to have their lips permanently grafted to the hind quarters of their little game heroes.
Pot calling the kettle black, there.

And you're still have trouble with the apples and oranges comparison.

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Old
10-25-2012, 07:07 PM
  #865
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This whole thing just strikes me as a game of chicken gone bad...and it's disgusting.

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Old
10-25-2012, 07:51 PM
  #866
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People I talk to daily are really losing hope... the damage could be severe to the league.


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Old
10-25-2012, 08:34 PM
  #867
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
If the players getting jobs were not the Ovechkin's and Kovalchuk's, I could understand it a bit more. When you have Ovechkin, a multi-millionaire, taking over 5 million away from a team in Russia and taking a spot away from a player who is not close to making that kind of money, it is a little hard to argue that he is doing what you or I would need to do. If the Darche's of the NHL were out there getting jobs to help pay the bills I would be far more sympathetic. However, I keep seeing the Nash, Ovechkin, Pacioretty, etc...types going out and getting paid with the lesser lights not being wanted in other leagues. So, the rich get to take jobs and money away from others who are not rich, and their lesser brethren get to sit at home and lose money they will need for their livelihood. Nice brotherhood there, players. Meh.
No, has nothing to do with being rich. It is the better players getting contracts. Not to mention that it was settled ages ago that almost all european teams had already signed their players before the NHL players came over so you are just making up **** to continue your little tirade against the players.

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10-25-2012, 09:51 PM
  #868
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Yes, bias is what it is and yours is showing. The players want more money than the guys who pay the bills, they want 57% of all HRR BUT they also are not willing to include THEIR HRR in the entire pie. Why would any owner of a business put his money into a business where the people he hires can take the amount they want and don't even have to include the extra income they make due to the business they are a part of? People who blame the wners for wanting a fair and even share of the HRR, of their HRR, are definitely showing their bias...
So, which one of the 3 options presented by the union involved the players receiving 57% of HRR? And which one did not have a 50/50 split as the ultimate target?

I'm bored of the owners vs players debate. But it's hard to watch people get called greedy and unreasonable through the use of... let's just call them un-facts.

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Old
10-26-2012, 12:54 AM
  #869
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While we go through hockey withdrawal...enjoy an Andrei Kostitsyn hit starting around 0:30


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10-26-2012, 01:34 AM
  #870
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Yes, bias is what it is and yours is showing. The players want more money than the guys who pay the bills, they want 57% of all HRR BUT they also are not willing to include THEIR HRR in the entire pie. Why would any owner of a business put his money into a business where the people he hires can take the amount they want and don't even have to include the extra income they make due to the business they are a part of? People who blame the wners for wanting a fair and even share of the HRR, of their HRR, are definitely showing their bias...
This form of social entitlement who has driven EU's economy to the ground is clearly gaining traction here in NA. "Businesses have the moral obligations to guarantee my contract in its entirety even though it's struggling to stay afloat (half of the league). I hate Trump but I'd repeat his one liner "you are fired"!

Why won't the government pass some law prohibiting the layoffs next? The next thing you know the unemployment will hit 20% because of business' fear of getting stuck with bad employees forever! See Spain!

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10-26-2012, 01:50 AM
  #871
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This form of social entitlement who has driven EU's economy to the ground is clearly gaining traction here in NA. "Businesses have the moral obligations to guarantee my contract in its entirety even though it's struggling to stay afloat (half of the league). I hate Trump but I'd repeat his one liner "you are fired"!

Why won't the government pass some law prohibiting the layoffs next? The next thing you know the unemployment will hit 20% because of business' fear of getting stuck with bad employees forever! See Spain!
Yeah, NHL players are going to turn us into Greece.

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Old
10-26-2012, 02:21 AM
  #872
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This form of social entitlement who has driven EU's economy to the ground is clearly gaining traction here in NA. "Businesses have the moral obligations to guarantee my contract in its entirety even though it's struggling to stay afloat (half of the league). I hate Trump but I'd repeat his one liner "you are fired"!

Why won't the government pass some law prohibiting the layoffs next? The next thing you know the unemployment will hit 20% because of business' fear of getting stuck with bad employees forever! See Spain!
Which is why Germany, with broadly similar social policies, is an economic behemoth right now and the UK with fairly liberal employment policies has been one of the hardest hit. Meanwhile fire-at-will US recovery has been weak.

The Euro crisis is only tangentially related at best to what you are talking about.

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10-26-2012, 03:02 AM
  #873
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Which is why Germany, with broadly similar social policies, is an economic behemoth right now and the UK with fairly liberal employment policies has been one of the hardest hit. Meanwhile fire-at-will US recovery has been weak.

The Euro crisis is only tangentially related at best to what you are talking about.
Not to mention Ireland, the poster child for European liberalization and limited social spending was one of the countries that started the chain reaction. And while Greece, Spain and Italy all have bloated bureaucracies and strong unions, Germany and Sweden have even stronger labour rights.

Actually the only comparison between the European financial situation and the NHL right now is that mismanagement is mismanagement.

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10-26-2012, 03:30 AM
  #874
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
If the players getting jobs were not the Ovechkin's and Kovalchuk's, I could understand it a bit more. When you have Ovechkin, a multi-millionaire, taking over 5 million away from a team in Russia and taking a spot away from a player who is not close to making that kind of money, it is a little hard to argue that he is doing what you or I would need to do. If the Darche's of the NHL were out there getting jobs to help pay the bills I would be far more sympathetic. However, I keep seeing the Nash, Ovechkin, Pacioretty, etc...types going out and getting paid with the lesser lights not being wanted in other leagues. So, the rich get to take jobs and money away from others who are not rich, and their lesser brethren get to sit at home and lose money they will need for their livelihood. Nice brotherhood there, players. Meh.

Not in the KHL.

Per KHL rules, lock-out signings cannot affect existing contracts.
Ovechkin is taking someone's spot in the line-up, he isn't taking that player's job, or money away.

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10-26-2012, 07:33 AM
  #875
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Wow, hero worship on this site is insane. The Mall Security Guard actually helps people during the course of his job. Hockey players get paid to play a game that millions of people play for free throughout their lives. The best Security Guard isn't ever going to be someone people will pay to watch, but that does not mean he/she is not as good at what he/she does as any NHL player is. The difference is that one job is a form of entertainment while the other isn't. Thinking a mall cop who makes 20-50K a year is not as good at his job as an NHL player is at his is also moronic. The best mall cop in the world will never be entertaining or get the kind of money a hockey player does...even if that player is the worst in the NHL because they are totally different jobs, not because the player is the best at his and the mall cop isn't.

Wow, hockey fans who support the players love insulting regular people and seem to have their lips permanently grafted to the hind quarters of their little game heroes.
...because nobody will pay $200 a night to watch that mall cop do his job. Simple supply and demand economics.

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