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Old
10-22-2012, 12:53 AM
  #151
Edge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarneyRoss View Post
disgusting
My problem with that opinion is that it assumes certain elements as fact, which are not.

Messier did not run a list of guys out of town to get his "buddies" on the team. Neil Smith didn't know when to quit.

Even if we played Devil's advocate and assumed it was true, I hardly think Samuelsson, Robitaille and Nedved count as his "buddies." In fact, Nedved often gets used in other Messier theory about running guys out of town which stands in direct contradiction to this one.

Contrary to popular belief, Messier did indeed play a reduced role in his second stint. Unfortunately, the teams that were supposed to be lead up the middle with Lindros and Nedved never developed.

And finally, when using Theo Fleury as a source, you have to take a lot of it with a grain of salt. That's all I'm going to say about that one.

Was Messier perfect? Hardly. Like every star player, he had his share of pros and cons. But the stories that a small minority of fans try to pin on him alternate between hysterical and flat out ludacris.

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Old
10-22-2012, 01:39 AM
  #152
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My unpopular opinions--

Dubinsky is and always has been a better player than Callahan. Last season was the only season that Cally out-produced Dubi. Plus, I think Callahan has benefitted on and off the ice from having Dubinsky around. Cally plays his game when Dubi is on his line--when he's on the ice with someone else, he plays a very different game with far more coasting and attempts at fancy nonsense (see: his penchant for no-look passes to nowhere last season).

If Tortorella had been able to swallow an ounce of his pride and make peace with Avery, the Rangers would have been playing in the SC finals last year (Avery's nonsense parade AFTER being sent down the second time was disgusting--I'm referring to Torts sending him down to begin with).

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Old
10-22-2012, 08:03 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
If Tortorella had been able to swallow an ounce of his pride and make peace with Avery, the Rangers would have been playing in the SC finals last year (Avery's nonsense parade AFTER being sent down the second time was disgusting--I'm referring to Torts sending him down to begin with).
Sean Avery was going to solve the team's goal scoring woes?

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Old
10-22-2012, 08:18 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Sean Avery was going to solve the team's goal scoring woes?
Sure, why not??

I mean, yea, he had 6 goals in his final 90 NHL games, but everyone knows thats because he was misused.

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Old
10-22-2012, 08:24 AM
  #155
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People just can't come to terms with the fact that Avery was no longer effective in his second stint here. He had a target put on his back by the league and he couldn't keep himself out of the box.

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10-22-2012, 05:10 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
My unpopular opinions--

Dubinsky is and always has been a better player than Callahan. Last season was the only season that Cally out-produced Dubi. Plus, I think Callahan has benefitted on and off the ice from having Dubinsky around. Cally plays his game when Dubi is on his line--when he's on the ice with someone else, he plays a very different game with far more coasting and attempts at fancy nonsense (see: his penchant for no-look passes to nowhere last season).

If Tortorella had been able to swallow an ounce of his pride and make peace with Avery, the Rangers would have been playing in the SC finals last year (Avery's nonsense parade AFTER being sent down the second time was disgusting--I'm referring to Torts sending him down to begin with).
This is really the only part I agree with, but you're right. The two of them went power forward bash brothers every now and then, and it was great to watch.

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Old
10-22-2012, 05:21 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
People just can't come to terms with the fact that Avery was no longer effective in his second stint here. He had a target put on his back by the league and he couldn't keep himself out of the box.
Partially correct. Sean Avery was an absolute stud in the preseason last year, it was ridiculous that Torts still sent him down over Christensen. You have blinders on if you don't think Avery was one of the teams best forwards in preseason. When he came up to play full-time yes, he was less than effective... But I don't think he deserved to be banished. And of course, he could have taken that second waiving more professionally.

Also, he only took 1 minor penalty that put the Rangers shorthanded in his 15 games last year.

I'm done beating the dead horse that is the Avery argument around here

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Old
10-22-2012, 06:05 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Partially correct. Sean Avery was an absolute stud in the preseason last year, it was ridiculous that Torts still sent him down over Christensen. You have blinders on if you don't think Avery was one of the teams best forwards in preseason. When he came up to play full-time yes, he was less than effective... But I don't think he deserved to be banished. And of course, he could have taken that second waiving more professionally.

Also, he only took 1 minor penalty that put the Rangers shorthanded in his 15 games last year.

I'm done beating the dead horse that is the Avery argument around here
With that kind of evidence, and talking points...you should be.

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Old
10-22-2012, 06:29 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
With that kind of evidence, and talking points...you should be.
The kind of evidence where someone says Avery couldn't stay out of the box even though he took one minor penalty that left the team shorthanded in 15 games?

Sorry, I don't follow.

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Old
10-22-2012, 10:33 PM
  #160
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Marek Malík was good for the team

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10-22-2012, 10:42 PM
  #161
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I always disliked Avery.

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Old
10-22-2012, 11:12 PM
  #162
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as someone who agrees that avery was not nearly as effective as he used to be this year, i would still rather have him in at forward on the playoff roster than steve eminger. avery played his best hockey against brodeur and the devils and would have done a much better job on the 4th line. i'm not saying the team would have won the series with avery, but if we all agree that depth was the biggest problem for that team then we can agree that avery probably would have helped.

i never liked anisimov and i'm glad he's gone. the guy was talented and bought into the system, but his hockey iq is so unbelievably low that i can't even believe he's still in the league.

despite all the negative comments about him on this board, adam graves was the most important player for the rangers during the 93-94 regular season. he was a one man momentum shifter and knew exactly how to rally the troops. graves is everything i'm hoping ryan callahan can be. that's why he got the C when messier was hurt.

if this team doesn't win a cup in the next 2-3 years we're in big trouble. there's a serious lack of depth in the minors and i think it's only a matter of time before torts starts to lose these guys.

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Old
10-25-2012, 07:29 PM
  #163
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I don't know if it's been said already but I think Kreider is overrated among Ranger fans.

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Old
10-25-2012, 07:34 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Killdo View Post
I don't know if it's been said already but I think Kreider is overrated among Ranger fans.

Its been awhile since we've had a forward prospect with a pretty high ceiling.

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Old
10-25-2012, 07:51 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by AceintheSpace View Post
Its been awhile since we've had a forward prospect with a pretty high ceiling.
I agree with you on that but I don't understand how that makes a difference. IMO he gets a lot of praise and I think it's premature, considering he's only played 18 games.

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10-25-2012, 08:39 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
My unpopular opinions--

Dubinsky is and always has been a better player than Callahan.
My opinion, I don't believe that for a second....

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Old
10-25-2012, 08:40 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Cally plays his game when Dubi is on his line
True but he also meshs well with Steps and Kreider

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Old
10-25-2012, 09:41 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
My unpopular opinions--

Dubinsky is and always has been a better player than Callahan. Last season was the only season that Cally out-produced Dubi. Plus, I think Callahan has benefitted on and off the ice from having Dubinsky around. Cally plays his game when Dubi is on his line--when he's on the ice with someone else, he plays a very different game with far more coasting and attempts at fancy nonsense (see: his penchant for no-look passes to nowhere last season).

If Tortorella had been able to swallow an ounce of his pride and make peace with Avery, the Rangers would have been playing in the SC finals last year (Avery's nonsense parade AFTER being sent down the second time was disgusting--I'm referring to Torts sending him down to begin with).
There is literally not a single shred of evidence to support either of these. But I suppose utterly incorrect opinions generally would be unpopular.

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Old
10-25-2012, 09:47 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billionaire Bot View Post
There is literally not a single shred of evidence to support either of these. But I suppose utterly incorrect opinions generally would be unpopular.
IMO Dubi was better than Callahan in 10-11 when you factor in durability. He is much better puck possession player. Callahan is simply a hacker/grinder type.

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Old
10-26-2012, 08:21 AM
  #170
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Trading Tim Erixon was an awful move.

Gomez, Redden, Malik, Ozolinsh were not as bad as people think (and all NHLers are overpaid).

Leetch and Messier were the worst Rangers on the team their last 2 seasons.

Sandy McCarty was the 3rd worst.

I'm glad Orr left.

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Old
10-26-2012, 09:11 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Killdo View Post
I agree with you on that but I don't understand how that makes a difference. IMO he gets a lot of praise and I think it's premature, considering he's only played 18 games.
Agreed. If you read around here, Kreider is destined to become a star or a superstar.

I think the Amonte comparison is a very good one, and I think thats Kreider's absolute ceiling, one that he likely won't reach.

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Old
10-26-2012, 09:16 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by jw2 View Post
Trading Tim Erixon was an awful move.

Gomez, Redden, Malik, Ozolinsh were not as bad as people think (and all NHLers are overpaid).

Leetch and Messier were the worst Rangers on the team their last 2 seasons.

Sandy McCarty was the 3rd worst.

I'm glad Orr left.
Outside of Malik not being as bad as people thought, I disagree with everything else - but hey, thats what this thread is here for.

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Old
10-26-2012, 09:25 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Outside of Malik not being as bad as people thought, I disagree with everything else - but hey, thats what this thread is here for.
Have to wonder if Gomez hadn't returned the Rangers McDonagh and the money for Gaborik would fans look back fondly on him or with any compassion.

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Old
10-26-2012, 10:50 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Have to wonder if Gomez hadn't returned the Rangers McDonagh and the money for Gaborik would fans look back fondly on him or with any compassion.
I rarely try to look at things in a vacuum, but I think playing careers with the Rangers deserve that kind of thinking. Im simply unable to look back on Gomez's 2 seasons with the Rangers fondly because of the return he was able to provide (somehow). Im also a person that wasnt going to handicap him from the start because he was a former Devil.

He put up OK numbers here, but the best way I can describe him as a hockey player is "inefficient"

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Old
10-26-2012, 10:58 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I rarely try to look at things in a vacuum, but I think playing careers with the Rangers deserve that kind of thinking. Im simply unable to look back on Gomez's 2 seasons with the Rangers fondly because of the return he was able to provide (somehow). Im also a person that wasnt going to handicap him from the start because he was a former Devil.

He put up OK numbers here, but the best way I can describe him as a hockey player is "inefficient"
Oh, I agree. My point is I think the fact that he was traded for McDonagh and Gaborik (basically) clouds peoples' recollections of his time here.

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