My problem with that opinion is that it assumes certain elements as fact, which are not.
Messier did not run a list of guys out of town to get his "buddies" on the team. Neil Smith didn't know when to quit.
Even if we played Devil's advocate and assumed it was true, I hardly think Samuelsson, Robitaille and Nedved count as his "buddies." In fact, Nedved often gets used in other Messier theory about running guys out of town which stands in direct contradiction to this one.
Contrary to popular belief, Messier did indeed play a reduced role in his second stint. Unfortunately, the teams that were supposed to be lead up the middle with Lindros and Nedved never developed.
And finally, when using Theo Fleury as a source, you have to take a lot of it with a grain of salt. That's all I'm going to say about that one.
Was Messier perfect? Hardly. Like every star player, he had his share of pros and cons. But the stories that a small minority of fans try to pin on him alternate between hysterical and flat out ludacris.
Dubinsky is and always has been a better player than Callahan. Last season was the only season that Cally out-produced Dubi. Plus, I think Callahan has benefitted on and off the ice from having Dubinsky around. Cally plays his game when Dubi is on his line--when he's on the ice with someone else, he plays a very different game with far more coasting and attempts at fancy nonsense (see: his penchant for no-look passes to nowhere last season).
If Tortorella had been able to swallow an ounce of his pride and make peace with Avery, the Rangers would have been playing in the SC finals last year (Avery's nonsense parade AFTER being sent down the second time was disgusting--I'm referring to Torts sending him down to begin with).
If Tortorella had been able to swallow an ounce of his pride and make peace with Avery, the Rangers would have been playing in the SC finals last year (Avery's nonsense parade AFTER being sent down the second time was disgusting--I'm referring to Torts sending him down to begin with).
Sean Avery was going to solve the team's goal scoring woes?
People just can't come to terms with the fact that Avery was no longer effective in his second stint here. He had a target put on his back by the league and he couldn't keep himself out of the box.
Dubinsky is and always has been a better player than Callahan. Last season was the only season that Cally out-produced Dubi. Plus, I think Callahan has benefitted on and off the ice from having Dubinsky around. Cally plays his game when Dubi is on his line--when he's on the ice with someone else, he plays a very different game with far more coasting and attempts at fancy nonsense (see: his penchant for no-look passes to nowhere last season).
If Tortorella had been able to swallow an ounce of his pride and make peace with Avery, the Rangers would have been playing in the SC finals last year (Avery's nonsense parade AFTER being sent down the second time was disgusting--I'm referring to Torts sending him down to begin with).
This is really the only part I agree with, but you're right. The two of them went power forward bash brothers every now and then, and it was great to watch.
People just can't come to terms with the fact that Avery was no longer effective in his second stint here. He had a target put on his back by the league and he couldn't keep himself out of the box.
Partially correct. Sean Avery was an absolute stud in the preseason last year, it was ridiculous that Torts still sent him down over Christensen. You have blinders on if you don't think Avery was one of the teams best forwards in preseason. When he came up to play full-time yes, he was less than effective... But I don't think he deserved to be banished. And of course, he could have taken that second waiving more professionally.
Also, he only took 1 minor penalty that put the Rangers shorthanded in his 15 games last year.
I'm done beating the dead horse that is the Avery argument around here
Partially correct. Sean Avery was an absolute stud in the preseason last year, it was ridiculous that Torts still sent him down over Christensen. You have blinders on if you don't think Avery was one of the teams best forwards in preseason. When he came up to play full-time yes, he was less than effective... But I don't think he deserved to be banished. And of course, he could have taken that second waiving more professionally.
Also, he only took 1 minor penalty that put the Rangers shorthanded in his 15 games last year.
I'm done beating the dead horse that is the Avery argument around here
With that kind of evidence, and talking points...you should be.
With that kind of evidence, and talking points...you should be.
The kind of evidence where someone says Avery couldn't stay out of the box even though he took one minor penalty that left the team shorthanded in 15 games?
as someone who agrees that avery was not nearly as effective as he used to be this year, i would still rather have him in at forward on the playoff roster than steve eminger. avery played his best hockey against brodeur and the devils and would have done a much better job on the 4th line. i'm not saying the team would have won the series with avery, but if we all agree that depth was the biggest problem for that team then we can agree that avery probably would have helped.
i never liked anisimov and i'm glad he's gone. the guy was talented and bought into the system, but his hockey iq is so unbelievably low that i can't even believe he's still in the league.
despite all the negative comments about him on this board, adam graves was the most important player for the rangers during the 93-94 regular season. he was a one man momentum shifter and knew exactly how to rally the troops. graves is everything i'm hoping ryan callahan can be. that's why he got the C when messier was hurt.
if this team doesn't win a cup in the next 2-3 years we're in big trouble. there's a serious lack of depth in the minors and i think it's only a matter of time before torts starts to lose these guys.
Its been awhile since we've had a forward prospect with a pretty high ceiling.
I agree with you on that but I don't understand how that makes a difference. IMO he gets a lot of praise and I think it's premature, considering he's only played 18 games.
Dubinsky is and always has been a better player than Callahan. Last season was the only season that Cally out-produced Dubi. Plus, I think Callahan has benefitted on and off the ice from having Dubinsky around. Cally plays his game when Dubi is on his line--when he's on the ice with someone else, he plays a very different game with far more coasting and attempts at fancy nonsense (see: his penchant for no-look passes to nowhere last season).
If Tortorella had been able to swallow an ounce of his pride and make peace with Avery, the Rangers would have been playing in the SC finals last year (Avery's nonsense parade AFTER being sent down the second time was disgusting--I'm referring to Torts sending him down to begin with).
There is literally not a single shred of evidence to support either of these. But I suppose utterly incorrect opinions generally would be unpopular.
There is literally not a single shred of evidence to support either of these. But I suppose utterly incorrect opinions generally would be unpopular.
IMO Dubi was better than Callahan in 10-11 when you factor in durability. He is much better puck possession player. Callahan is simply a hacker/grinder type.
I agree with you on that but I don't understand how that makes a difference. IMO he gets a lot of praise and I think it's premature, considering he's only played 18 games.
Agreed. If you read around here, Kreider is destined to become a star or a superstar.
I think the Amonte comparison is a very good one, and I think thats Kreider's absolute ceiling, one that he likely won't reach.
Have to wonder if Gomez hadn't returned the Rangers McDonagh and the money for Gaborik would fans look back fondly on him or with any compassion.
I rarely try to look at things in a vacuum, but I think playing careers with the Rangers deserve that kind of thinking. Im simply unable to look back on Gomez's 2 seasons with the Rangers fondly because of the return he was able to provide (somehow). Im also a person that wasnt going to handicap him from the start because he was a former Devil.
He put up OK numbers here, but the best way I can describe him as a hockey player is "inefficient"
I rarely try to look at things in a vacuum, but I think playing careers with the Rangers deserve that kind of thinking. Im simply unable to look back on Gomez's 2 seasons with the Rangers fondly because of the return he was able to provide (somehow). Im also a person that wasnt going to handicap him from the start because he was a former Devil.
He put up OK numbers here, but the best way I can describe him as a hockey player is "inefficient"
Oh, I agree. My point is I think the fact that he was traded for McDonagh and Gaborik (basically) clouds peoples' recollections of his time here.
Its been awhile since we've had a forward prospect with a pretty high ceiling.
