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Number 1 defense-man needed

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Old
10-26-2012, 09:33 AM
  #1
Alflives
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Number 1 defense-man needed

Clearly this (a true #1 defense-man) is a pressing need for the Canucks, especially considering the team's current status: elite team, close to the Cup, aging core, closing window of opportunity, need a true #1 defense-man to win the cup.

Is there a strategy available to get that much needed piece (#1 defense-man) before the current core's window closes shut?

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10-26-2012, 09:42 AM
  #2
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Gillis was supposed to get Shea Weber, but because he didn't, he's obviously a terrible GM.

Realistically I'd like to move as high up in the draft as possible and take someone like Ristolainen or Pulock, but they'd still be a while away from making an impact.

Our best chance right now is that Edler takes the next step in honing his game and becoming more consistent.

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10-26-2012, 09:52 AM
  #3
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Gillis was supposed to get Shea Weber, but because he didn't, he's obviously a terrible GM.

Realistically I'd like to move as high up in the draft as possible and take someone like Ristolainen or Pulock, but they'd still be a while away from making an impact.

Our best chance right now is that Edler takes the next step in honing his game and becoming more consistent.
Perhaps Edler's difficulties are a function of his sore back? If he is going to make that leap to be the #1, then he had better do it soon.

There was zero chance of getting Weber last year. I agree with you on that. But, could there be a chance of getting Weber next summer?

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10-26-2012, 10:05 AM
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Edler is a #1 d-man.

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10-26-2012, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
Edler is a #1 d-man.
He certainly has the physical tools to be a #1: Size, strength, heavy shot, plays with toughness. Does he have the emotional make-up for the responsibility of the #1 guy? He seems to be overwhelmed with added responsibility, almost like he hides from it. It might not be in his nature, to be 'the guy'.

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10-26-2012, 11:04 AM
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The types of defenceman you speak of are rarely available in their prime. You have to win without one (which many teams have) or win the lottery in the draft.

I know everyone wants a "number one" defenceman, but it's like finding an ace starter in MLB, it's tough to do. Let's be reality.

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10-26-2012, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
The types of defenceman you speak of are rarely available in their prime. You have to win without one (which many teams have) or win the lottery in the draft.

I know everyone wants a "number one" defenceman, but it's like finding an ace starter in MLB, it's tough to do. Let's be reality.
I beg to differ that many teams have won without a #1? In recent memory I can think of Carolina, and that's about it. Every other team had a 30 minute guy, who played all situations. From Doughty and Chara to Lidstrom, Cup winning teams have had the guy who effectively eats up those top minutes.

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10-26-2012, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
I beg to differ that many teams have won without a #1? In recent memory I can think of Carolina, and that's about it. Every other team had a 30 minute guy, who played all situations. From Doughty and Chara to Lidstrom, Cup winning teams have had the guy who effectively eats up those top minutes.
Then how do you propose we find one? Tank for a year?

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10-26-2012, 11:22 AM
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Then how do you propose we find one? Tank for a year?
Then hope there's one at the top of the draft, then wait five years for them to develop and mature. Meantime the rest of our team will fall apart but hey at least we'll be able to say we have a "number one defenseman"!

Frankly this team could have won a cup if Dan Hamhuis hadn't been injured so I'm not sure I buy the logic that they need that kind of defenseman (of course I'd jump at the opportunity to acquire one in either way).

Basically with enough high end depth over enough years this team should be able to win a cup.

If Tanev continues to develop and Keith Ballard continues to return to form (or is upgraded) then we should have six players who can handle a top four role; that should give us as good a chance as anyone.

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10-26-2012, 11:25 AM
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Then how do you propose we find one? Tank for a year?
Like you have written already, these players are hard to get. Although they are available in the trade market. For example, Pronger and Chara were moved. However, the cost is high. I do believe MG has targeted She Weber. Perhaps he (Gilllis) is trying to collect suitable assets to trade for Weber in the summer of 2013? What would Nashville want in return for Weber? Kesler ++

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10-26-2012, 11:25 AM
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dmen tend to peak later, Edler will probably be a number 1 when hes in his early 30s.

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10-26-2012, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
I beg to differ that many teams have won without a #1? In recent memory I can think of Carolina, and that's about it. Every other team had a 30 minute guy, who played all situations. From Doughty and Chara to Lidstrom, Cup winning teams have had the guy who effectively eats up those top minutes.
Who was the "30 minute guy" when Tampa won the Cup in 2004?

Who was the "30 minute guy" when Pittsburgh won the Cup in 2009? Gonchar (his minutes were *reduced* during the post-season)? meh, would you want him on this team right now?

Yeah having a true #1 helps, but it isn't a prerequisite to winning a Cup.

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10-26-2012, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Who was the "30 minute guy" when Tampa won the Cup in 2004?

Who was the "30 minute guy" when Pittsburgh won the Cup in 2009? Gonchar (his minutes were *reduced* during the post-season)? meh, would you want him on this team right now?
Boyle.

Anywho, there are 30 teams in the league and very few of them have #1 defensman, I'd say there are probably less than 10 true #1's in the league.

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10-26-2012, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Boyle.
He wasn't a "30 minute guy on the Bolts". Didn't play any "tougher" minutes than either Bieksa or Hamhuis.

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10-26-2012, 11:35 AM
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Wasn't Edler ranked in the top 25 of defenseman in an HF Poll? That's a #1 Dman. He's still improving too.

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10-26-2012, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Like you have written already, these players are hard to get. Although they are available in the trade market. For example, Pronger and Chara were moved. However, the cost is high. I do believe MG has targeted She Weber. Perhaps he (Gilllis) is trying to collect suitable assets to trade for Weber in the summer of 2013? What would Nashville want in return for Weber? Kesler ++
That'll patch up a luxury while destroying our second line.

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10-26-2012, 11:46 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by KeslerKrony View Post
Wasn't Edler ranked in the top 25 of defenseman in an HF Poll? That's a #1 Dman. He's still improving too.
The term #1 defensman has different interpretations to different people.


What I look for is a guy who can excel in all situations...unlike Karlsson, he's a norris winner, but I wouldn't be comfortable having him PK or match up with top lines.

Edler is one of the league's better offensive defensman, but he is most certainly not a player who excels in all situations.

I've gone on about this ad nauseum in the past.

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10-26-2012, 11:48 AM
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That'll patch up a luxury while destroying our second line.
We'd become......Nashville and how many Cups did they win with their *TWO #1 D* and Vezina calibre goalie/top coach?

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10-26-2012, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
The term #1 defensman has different interpretations to different people.


What I look for is a guy who can excel in all situations...unlike Karlsson, he's a norris winner, but I wouldn't be comfortable having him PK or match up with top lines.

Edler is one of the league's better offensive defensman, but he is most certainly not a player who excels in all situations.

I've gone on about this ad nauseum in the past.
Agreed. At this point I would say Dan Hamhuis is probably our best defenseman and closest to being a number 1 out of anyone on our team. I think he's miscast as a number 1 too but he makes an elite number 2.

I think this team is fine with the current D group, although a PMD to fill Ehrhoff's old role would be ideal. Once we fix our lousy second line offense we should be dominant once again.

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10-26-2012, 12:06 PM
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We didn't win the Cup because our #1 dman got injured in the first game.

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10-26-2012, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
He certainly has the physical tools to be a #1: Size, strength, heavy shot, plays with toughness. Does he have the emotional make-up for the responsibility of the #1 guy? He seems to be overwhelmed with added responsibility, almost like he hides from it. It might not be in his nature, to be 'the guy'.
And Gardiner does? Yesterday you were boldly proclaiming he was a a #1, whereas Edler is not.

I'm confused where this is going. #1 dmen, as we understand them, are almost never available for any price. If we had one, we wouldn't entertain offers to move them either.

The Weber ship has sailed. We are stuck in the (I feel) enviable position of having two top pairing dmen in Hamhuis and Edler and legit second pairing guys in Bieksa and Garrision. It'll have to do unless we luck out at the draft like Nashville did in '03 or Ottawa did in '08.

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10-26-2012, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Cocoa Crisp View Post
And Gardiner does? Yesterday you were boldly proclaiming he was a a #1, whereas Edler is not.

I'm confused where this is going. #1 dmen, as we understand them, are almost never available for any price. If we had one, we wouldn't entertain offers to move them either.

The Weber ship has sailed. We are stuck in the (I feel) enviable position of having two top pairing dmen in Hamhuis and Edler and legit second pairing guys in Bieksa and Garrision. It'll have to do unless we luck out at the draft like Nashville did in '03 or Ottawa did in '08.


Two top pairing guys, a guy that half the fanbase thinks is better than Edler (Bieksa) and a defensive stalwart that rivals Hamhuis in his own zone (Garrison). Yeah, I think the team will be fine... Not to mention the promising pairing of Ballard (improving) and Tanev.


This is an embarrassment of riches on the back end _if_ Ballard returns to form. Otherwise, it's still pretty good regardless.

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10-26-2012, 12:49 PM
  #23
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Agreed. At this point I would say Dan Hamhuis is probably our best defenseman and closest to being a number 1 out of anyone on our team. I think he's miscast as a number 1 too but he makes an elite number 2.
I think Hamhuis is underrated, he does for our team what a #1 should do, he has a positive impact at both ends while doing the heavy lifting. If he played on the #1 PP his numbers would be a little more impressive, he'd probably get more credit overall.

I still think Edler is going to be a true #1, impacting the game in all situations. I don't see his personality as a handicap to his game, he isn't shy on the ice.

I also think Jason Garrison has the kind of game that can get him into Hamhuis territory. He'll probably never post gaudy point totals but 40 while playing shutdown type defence is damn good.

Our defence is the strength of our team, not a weakness.

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10-26-2012, 12:56 PM
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Now that Weber is presumably off the market, it's going to be virtually impossible for us to get one because they very rarely ever become available. Think about it this way. If we had one, would we trade him away? And would we trade him away for package of inferior players? Probably not. We always talked about trying to trade a bunch of our prospects/picks and non-core players for Weber, but when the shoe is on the other foot, I don't think we could say "no" fast enough.

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10-26-2012, 01:24 PM
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The number 1 d-man is a mythical creature to Alflives. His skates are made of fire and allow him to blaze through the sky. His stick was forged by the elves using the branches of Yggdrasil and the puck becomes lightning when it's shot.

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