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Old
10-25-2012, 11:44 PM
  #26
quesosauce
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we need a star player, theres possibly a couple on the roster, but they need to really take two next steps to get there

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10-26-2012, 12:25 AM
  #27
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we need a star player, theres possibly a couple on the roster, but they need to really take two next steps to get there
I think there's a good chance of Landeskog becoming that star, Duchene too, but not as much imo.

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10-26-2012, 10:38 AM
  #28
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I never really understood Avs fans being labeled as bandwagoners, fair weathered, etc. Because a large portion of any fan base IS bandwagoners( except the habs, minny, jets, of course the leafs)
Are they fair weather fans, or simply practical?

I've been a season ticket holder (in two cities) on and off since the early 90s, in this city for some time. So, I think I've been a pretty decent fan of the team and the game for awhile.

But I'm sorry - this version of the Avs is not only wholly mediocre, but it's also really kind of boring at times (Sacco's dump it in "system"). So, I'm to pay $150/night to watch this? I'm not fair weather about the sport in any way, but I refuse to shell out that kind of money for a very middle-of-the-road product.

I like Mexican food, but if my favorite restaurant lowered their quality and started charging $25 for a burrito, I'd never go there again. But I'd still like Mexican food.

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10-26-2012, 11:48 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg View Post
I think there's a good chance of Landeskog becoming that star, Duchene too, but not as much imo.
Landeskog is a sure bet. Duchene, once he matures, I think his game will reach it's potential.

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10-26-2012, 01:04 PM
  #30
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Landeskog is a sure bet. Duchene, once he matures, I think his game will reach it's potential.
If he matures.

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10-26-2012, 01:11 PM
  #31
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If he matures.

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ďItís embarrassing. Iím embarrassed to be here right now. Itís not even funny. And itís just embarrassing, the way we, you know, the energy we have in the room and the way we approach practices and the way we approach this game. Itís not how youíre going to win any games in this league." - Jean-Sebastien Giguere, April 8 2013
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10-26-2012, 02:22 PM
  #32
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10-26-2012, 03:30 PM
  #33
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For some reason that news on Kadri last week or so reminded me of Duchene. They said how much more commited he is his nutrition, training, etc. Not everyone can step into the league with the maturity of a Landeskog, Iginla, etc. It takes some guys more times then others.

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10-27-2012, 09:24 PM
  #34
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I don't get why so many people have a problem with so called "fair weather" fans. If someone regards sports as something more than entertainment, good for them, but why expect all fans to feel that way or expect them to find entertainment value in watching a bad or mediocre team? Choosing to spend time and money on a team that isn't good isn't a virtue, it's a choice, and to each their own. I can't see how it's a bad thing for someone to choose to invest their time and money in other ways if a team just isn't any fun to watch.

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10-27-2012, 10:56 PM
  #35
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Are they fair weather fans, or simply practical?

I've been a season ticket holder (in two cities) on and off since the early 90s, in this city for some time. So, I think I've been a pretty decent fan of the team and the game for awhile.

But I'm sorry - this version of the Avs is not only wholly mediocre, but it's also really kind of boring at times (Sacco's dump it in "system"). So, I'm to pay $150/night to watch this? I'm not fair weather about the sport in any way, but I refuse to shell out that kind of money for a very middle-of-the-road product.

I like Mexican food, but if my favorite restaurant lowered their quality and started charging $25 for a burrito, I'd never go there again. But I'd still like Mexican food.
VERY well said. Entire post


Last edited by SuperTheGreat: 10-27-2012 at 11:02 PM.
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10-28-2012, 01:29 AM
  #36
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they are fair weather.

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10-29-2012, 10:10 AM
  #37
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It's a pretty long bow to draw to consider Landeskog in the same vein as the Crosby's, Ovechkin's and company in the NHL. Like I say, he's a "good" hard working, blue collar type of player.

On a current Avs roster, yes, he is showing a lot more than most of our other players, but to be honest and fair, I'd have to think that's not saying much.

But yeah, I'd have to reiterate what others have said in this thread, compared to times in which I was a Nordique's fan, the current state of affairs is actually quite good considering.

Then again, comparing Avs today to the dark days of the Nordique's, isn't really reaching for the stars now, is it. I'd rather people compare us to The modern Redwings as a benchmark to be honest.

They've somehow remained competitive year, after year, after year in a post salary cap era. They've continued to uncover VERY good players like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Howard and co. while keeping their vets in Osgood and Lidstrom firing....they just have an outstanding culture both on and off the ice.

Their fans, players & coaches have vastly different expectations on themselves than Avs fans. I really don't know how their structure would tolerate a re-build, which in my opinion, they may need to go through soon.

Detroit are about winning at all costs, which is why they brought in players like Hossa, and openly stated their appetite and willingness to spend on Suter and Parise.

Just very, very different clubs from top to bottom. We should be comparing ourselves to them, rather than The Nordique's imo if and when we want to be winners again.

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10-29-2012, 10:18 AM
  #38
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i didn't read most of the posts and frankly, I don't know Avs history extremely well aside from the obvious and unmissable. As an outsider to the strictly Avs fanbase (being a Rangers fan who's secondary/Western team is the Avs.) Matt Duchene and Gabriel Landeskog are at the base of the new era of fans. There's good hockey history behind the Avs for sure and I think they've simply been lacking in sensation. A fan base requires not only fans but also a culture and with regards to the current fan base, you guys would know better than me but as for the future fan base, the culture is going to be brewed by Landy and Dutchy in the next few years.

With that fan base "culture", it's essentially a if you build it, they will come type of deal imo.

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10-29-2012, 10:21 AM
  #39
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There's also a scary flipside to that. Just ask Islander fans about that. They have players "legally" attempting to stay away from the place.

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10-29-2012, 11:09 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
Then again, comparing Avs today to the dark days of the Nordique's, isn't really reaching for the stars now, is it. I'd rather people compare us to The modern Redwings as a benchmark to be honest.

They've somehow remained competitive year, after year, after year in a post salary cap era. They've continued to uncover VERY good players like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Howard and co. while keeping their vets in Osgood and Lidstrom firing....they just have an outstanding culture both on and off the ice.

Their fans, players & coaches have vastly different expectations on themselves than Avs fans. I really don't know how their structure would tolerate a re-build, which in my opinion, they may need to go through soon.

Detroit are about winning at all costs, which is why they brought in players like Hossa, and openly stated their appetite and willingness to spend on Suter and Parise.

Just very, very different clubs from top to bottom. We should be comparing ourselves to them, rather than The Nordique's imo if and when we want to be winners again.
They also play a very entertaining brand of puck-moving hockey. Which would make a $150/night endeavor much easier to swallow.

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10-29-2012, 07:56 PM
  #41
Drizzt1
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
They also play a very entertaining brand of puck-moving hockey. Which would make a $150/night endeavor much easier to swallow.
Hey, hey, hey....while I "respect" Detroit, you'd have to rip $$$ out of me through torture to get me to provide them with one dollar ! I also hate them more than any team, primarily due to those rivalry days.



Three most hated teams, and in order:-

Detroit Redwings
Calgary Flames
Vancouver Canucks

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10-29-2012, 09:34 PM
  #42
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I don't see what's so bad about not wanting to spend a crap ton of money to go watch a team when it's not that good. I have all the faith in the world that this particular team is going to do great things once it gets its legs underneath it - does that mean that in the NOW, right now, I want to spend forty bucks for a night where they may or may not play like crap? Nope, not really. I'll go to three ish games a season where they are right now - I'd probably be willing to spend the money to go to almost tenish if they were a top level team.

And I feel completely secure in my level of fan ness. It's my money. I get to spend it however the hell I feel like. I still watch them nearly every game and I know the name, number, likeness and stat line of every guy on the team. I just work very hard for the money that I do get and don't really feel like spending it on a "meh" night.

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10-29-2012, 09:38 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
Are they fair weather fans, or simply practical?

I've been a season ticket holder (in two cities) on and off since the early 90s, in this city for some time. So, I think I've been a pretty decent fan of the team and the game for awhile.

But I'm sorry - this version of the Avs is not only wholly mediocre, but it's also really kind of boring at times (Sacco's dump it in "system"). So, I'm to pay $150/night to watch this? I'm not fair weather about the sport in any way, but I refuse to shell out that kind of money for a very middle-of-the-road product.

I like Mexican food, but if my favorite restaurant lowered their quality and started charging $25 for a burrito, I'd never go there again. But I'd still like Mexican food.
This. Completely this.

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10-29-2012, 10:10 PM
  #44
ABasin
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Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
Hey, hey, hey....while I "respect" Detroit, you'd have to rip $$$ out of me through torture to get me to provide them with one dollar ! I also hate them more than any team, primarily due to those rivalry days.
LOL. I actually don't have much hatred for other teams or players, but I hear you. My point wasn't that we should be giving Detroit fan money, but rather that if the Avs played a more fun, exciting brand of hockey, it might make it more palatable for one to punch down a lot of money to watch a game.

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10-30-2012, 02:06 AM
  #45
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Agree mate. You know what the strange thing is though. I remember the days Joel Quenneville stated consistently we were going to be an up tempo, on your toes type of attacking team that people wanted to watch. Seriously, in 2006 / 2007 I thought we had the defensive fire power, plus the special teams to make that happen. We had Clark, Leopold, Liles, Brisebois & Cumiskey as part of our D-core at the time, yet we still ended up having to dump and chase.

I then remember vividly the next season, Granato came in, claiming the again up tempo, on your toes, energetic hockey, and I thought, well, Ruslan Salei was brought in, Footer was brought back to add that mean streak, here we go, and there were glimpses of what we needed. We ended up coming 6th or so in the conference I believe.

But it all went to crud, and the dump and chase returned, when our team started getting out skilled, out muscled, and out enthused most nights.

Granato was fired, and up came Joe Sacco, a losing coach in the minors, who also preached that up tempo style, and wow, for 75% of the season, we got that. I honestly thought then and there, our fortunes had turned around, and the old, fight in the trenches Avs had returned......but no.

We AGAIN started dumping and chasing. We again had quality players retiring. We again started bringing in players like Hunwick & Kobasew all the while reducing salary.

Well, that's where it leaves us today. A hell of a lot of potential, not much proven quality (that is still consistent). Guys like Hejduk, Hejda, Kobasew, Hunwick are regressing, and our rookies don't have that go to guy they desperately need.

This, in my opinion is why young fans would go somewhere to look for when it comes to a team to support. We have become extremely mediocre on the ice, and I believe we are as bad as we have ever been (including the Quebec days) off the ice. I honestly think we have ownership, PR and management that don't care about one squat about fans / goodwill.

There is no connection between the club and fans.

That being said, there is a die hard element, that will stick solid no matter, including you guys and I. I personally believe we are there despite where we are, not because of it, because those winning days were almost 1/2 a decade ago.

We'll be back. My opinion is that when ownership, the players & management show some pride, buy in & investment, fans will return.

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Old
10-30-2012, 11:26 AM
  #46
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10-30-2012, 11:47 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
Agree mate. You know what the strange thing is though. I remember the days Joel Quenneville stated consistently we were going to be an up tempo, on your toes type of attacking team that people wanted to watch. Seriously, in 2006 / 2007 I thought we had the defensive fire power, plus the special teams to make that happen. We had Clark, Leopold, Liles, Brisebois & Cumiskey as part of our D-core at the time, yet we still ended up having to dump and chase.

I then remember vividly the next season, Granato came in, claiming the again up tempo, on your toes, energetic hockey, and I thought, well, Ruslan Salei was brought in, Footer was brought back to add that mean streak, here we go, and there were glimpses of what we needed. We ended up coming 6th or so in the conference I believe.

But it all went to crud, and the dump and chase returned, when our team started getting out skilled, out muscled, and out enthused most nights.

Granato was fired, and up came Joe Sacco, a losing coach in the minors, who also preached that up tempo style, and wow, for 75% of the season, we got that. I honestly thought then and there, our fortunes had turned around, and the old, fight in the trenches Avs had returned......but no.

We AGAIN started dumping and chasing. We again had quality players retiring. We again started bringing in players like Hunwick & Kobasew all the while reducing salary.

Well, that's where it leaves us today. A hell of a lot of potential, not much proven quality (that is still consistent). Guys like Hejduk, Hejda, Kobasew, Hunwick are regressing, and our rookies don't have that go to guy they desperately need.

This, in my opinion is why young fans would go somewhere to look for when it comes to a team to support. We have become extremely mediocre on the ice, and I believe we are as bad as we have ever been (including the Quebec days) off the ice. I honestly think we have ownership, PR and management that don't care about one squat about fans / goodwill.

There is no connection between the club and fans.

That being said, there is a die hard element, that will stick solid no matter, including you guys and I. I personally believe we are there despite where we are, not because of it, because those winning days were almost 1/2 a decade ago.

We'll be back. My opinion is that when ownership, the players & management show some pride, buy in & investment, fans will return.
You sure you remember that year vividly? That was Quennville's last year when Foppa/Foote came back and we made it to the 2nd round.

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10-30-2012, 11:50 AM
  #48
ABasin
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There is no connection between the club and fans.
This is a very interesting (and accurate) point, IMO.

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10-31-2012, 04:30 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
Hey, hey, hey....while I "respect" Detroit, you'd have to rip $$$ out of me through torture to get me to provide them with one dollar ! I also hate them more than any team, primarily due to those rivalry days.
This is why I flat out refuse to eat at Little Ceasers (well, that and because it tastes like crap). Mike Ilitch can fund the Red Wings without any help from me.

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10-31-2012, 04:44 PM
  #50
Ceremony
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This is a very interesting (and accurate) point, IMO.
The way the Avs treat the fans is downright contemptible at times.

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