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The Lockout Thread UPD 1/6 - framework of new CBA agreed to

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Old
10-20-2012, 04:36 PM
  #126
SJeasy
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
not sure I agree with this..When teams are handing out contracts like candy its hard to blame the players.For me I am behind the players. When they were willing to start the season and play while negotiating a new deal was the kicker for me.. Owners came up with this contract 5 years ago and now its not good enough for them. hello lockout..Play hockey and work out a new deal. Where I do fault both sides is waiting till this past summer to start talks!!
Someone did a graph on the BOH forum which showed the size of the owners share descending through the term of this CBA. It is becoming geometric in its descent. It means that teams made out well immediately after the last lockout and are doing progressively worse as a group. The low end is getting worse each year. The real answer is that the ranging system (cap floor)/rev sharing is at fault along with the owners share being insufficient going forward. The gravy to raise the players from 54 to 57 wasn't really there because other costs have gone up even faster. The previous contract definitely wasn't good enough.

We got a hint this last season as owners were less likely to bump the cap on payroll. The contracted $ versus the absolute cap were dropping leaguewide. That was the storm cloud. And it mathematically it put even more of a squeeze on the middle and low end because of the way escrow operates. Teams weren't getting as much back from escrow as they anticipated. This is the real reason why owners wanted the immediate drop.

I am not pro-owner. I don't think either side is approaching the negotiations with solutions that go to core issues and in some cases both sides are going in the opposite direction. The goal of these negotiations should be to make 30 teams healthy (special exemption to Phx to get their dilemma settled, relocation or new ownership/improved situation in situ).

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Old
10-21-2012, 12:16 AM
  #127
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http://triblive.com/mobile/msports/#...-owners-season

Labor experts predict end to lockout (soon)

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Old
10-21-2012, 10:27 AM
  #128
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http://triblive.com/mobile/msports/#...-owners-season

Labor experts predict end to lockout (soon)
Oh please let this be true... I never noticed how boring fall was without hockey

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Old
10-21-2012, 09:00 PM
  #129
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I wonder what the league will do for a schedule if they find a compromise maybe a week-2 weeks after the 82 game schedule deadline passes. If they still find a way to get 70 games I wont be as pissed off as I am. I am not thinking a deal will be done on time so im hopeful for 70+ games.

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10-22-2012, 01:56 PM
  #130
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Pavelski is scoreless in a 3-2 O win. He had about 18:30 of ice time with two shots.

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Old
10-22-2012, 04:46 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
not sure I agree with this..When teams are handing out contracts like candy its hard to blame the players.For me I am behind the players. When they were willing to start the season and play while negotiating a new deal was the kicker for me.. Owners came up with this contract 5 years ago and now its not good enough for them. hello lockout..Play hockey and work out a new deal. Where I do fault both sides is waiting till this past summer to start talks!!
The players knew full well what they were doing and what was likely, or what had to happen, with the next CBA. That's why so many of the big money deals in the last year paid so much out in signing bonuses that couldn't be rolled back. Yes, the owners are to blame for their part, but it's not like the players are innocent here. You don't think their agents were working teams to get as much bonus and front-end money as possible? I would caveat though, that the majority of the players aren't to blame for that.. it's mostly the superstars who signed these ridiculous contracts. I'd say guys who signed reasonable, cap-friendly deals have a right to be pissed to some degree that owners don't want to honor existing contracts. I only say to some degree though, because the revenue split is unsustainable. No other sport comes even close to a 57/50 split in favor of players, so there has to be some rollback.

I wonder if they could target the egregious deals more heavily and roll those salaries back more than the guys with "normal" contracts. Maybe that wouldn't be enough to offset the reduction needed across the board though.

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Old
10-22-2012, 05:10 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Eighth Fret View Post
I wonder if they could target the egregious deals more heavily and roll those salaries back more than the guys with "normal" contracts. Maybe that wouldn't be enough to offset the reduction needed across the board though.
If you look at the stratification of salary bands across all players, the top guys are the ones who took the hit from the last lockout. Uncapped, you would likely have Crosby and 15-30 others in the $15-$20mil range. Another 50 contracts in the $7mil range and then down to $3mil. If you divvy up into four groups, the group just below the top got the big pop in salaries. My take is that you would have some big pushback from the big guys if you took yet more off the top.

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10-22-2012, 06:23 PM
  #133
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If you look at the stratification of salary bands across all players, the top guys are the ones who took the hit from the last lockout. Uncapped, you would likely have Crosby and 15-30 others in the $15-$20mil range. Another 50 contracts in the $7mil range and then down to $3mil. If you divvy up into four groups, the group just below the top got the big pop in salaries. My take is that you would have some big pushback from the big guys if you took yet more off the top.
Is the player's side similar to the owners/league side where a handful of players are driving most of the movement?

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Old
10-23-2012, 04:26 PM
  #134
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Is the player's side similar to the owners/league side where a handful of players are driving most of the movement?
I try to read between the lines on both.

The current players stance is most in favor of current players and throws the next generation under the bus. This is common through all CBA negotiations in all sports. Not good. They will hit a point of no return on Euro players, particularly Russians.

The owners proposal favors the big guys. Until they get serious about rev share and the cap range, the mid and little guys take it in the neck or hang on by their fingernails.

I do think the NHL proposal throws a lifeline to mid and little, but it is a very slippery line. Good luck hanging on.

If you want fair give the owners a fair collective profit (~5-7%). Accomplish it through splitting gate for all teams and unbalanced distribution of central revenues. On the players side, base pay (plus minor seniority raises) plus performance. Injured players get a time limited average of performance pay when on the sideline. Performance measure is an admixture of TOI plus wins (not points or goals or GAA). Neither side is anywhere near fairness ideals.

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10-25-2012, 01:19 AM
  #135
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10-25-2012, 05:46 PM
  #136
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please do ... i'm wearing out my phone screen with Big Win Hockey.

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10-25-2012, 11:50 PM
  #137
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http://www.csnbayarea.com/hockey-san...01&feedID=2798

From Thursday: comments from Sharks players Boyle, Marleau, etc.

Headline: Both sides holding up CBA progress

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10-26-2012, 10:32 AM
  #138
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...riday/1660455/

NHL pulls proposal off table.



And the word on twitter is that all games through 11/30 will be cancelled today.

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Old
10-26-2012, 01:15 PM
  #139
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...riday/1660455/

NHL pulls proposal off table.



And the word on twitter is that all games through 11/30 will be cancelled today.
Done deal according to tsn, all november games are cancelled.

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Old
10-26-2012, 02:28 PM
  #140
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Done deal according to tsn, all november games are cancelled.
Get it over with already and cancel the season. I am loving ECHL hockey and could care less if the NHL ever plays hockey again.

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Old
10-26-2012, 02:46 PM
  #141
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Personally, I'm hoping the lockout goes the full season for selfish reasons. If it goes all season, I might actually get the chance to go see some good games by travelling this winter. Up to Finland to see Demers, SW to see JT and Couture in Switzerland, South to see whoever ends up in the Czech Republic.

So it's all good with me.

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Old
10-26-2012, 03:46 PM
  #142
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I liked the headline from Puck Daddy...

"NHL to withdraw the 82-game proposal the players already rejected anyway"

It's so obvious that the league has no leverage at all. The quicker they come to terms with the fact they failed miserably with their planned extortion, the quicker this whole thing will move along.

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Old
10-26-2012, 03:59 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
I liked the headline from Puck Daddy...

"NHL to withdraw the 82-game proposal the players already rejected anyway"

It's so obvious that the league has no leverage at all. The quicker they come to terms with the fact they failed miserably with their planned extortion, the quicker this whole thing will move along.
Also get rid of the lame shootout and then you got a deal!

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10-26-2012, 04:37 PM
  #144
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at what point is the season essentially canceled? end of nov?

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Old
10-26-2012, 06:35 PM
  #145
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Cancel the entire season and come up with a new solid system for the next 12 years, rather than just patching up wounds and having to go through this circus again 6 years from now.

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Old
10-26-2012, 07:00 PM
  #146
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at what point is the season essentially canceled? end of nov?
Jan 1st

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Old
10-26-2012, 08:33 PM
  #147
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I liked the headline from Puck Daddy...

"NHL to withdraw the 82-game proposal the players already rejected anyway"

It's so obvious that the league has no leverage at all. The quicker they come to terms with the fact they failed miserably with their planned extortion, the quicker this whole thing will move along.
AMEN

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Old
10-26-2012, 08:40 PM
  #148
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at what point is the season essentially canceled? end of nov?
It seems like they might do one more round before Thanksgiving and then kill it entirely once the winter classic gets cancelled.

Or... Monday.


Last edited by bluefunnel: 10-26-2012 at 08:59 PM.
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Old
10-26-2012, 10:36 PM
  #149
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I'm surprised there hasn't been a bigger fan movement to boycott the NHL. I have personally vowed not to attend any games or purchase ANY NHL related merchandise for at least 1 entire year if even one single NHL game was cancelled as part of the lockout festivities.

You could argue that it's not a true boycott because I'll probably still watch the game on TV and follow it through the news, but it doesn't cost me a single penny to that.

Maybe it's time that fans band together. Just imagine how powerful the NHLFA (National Hockey League Fan Association) would be. The HRR split decision would be a petty thing if we threatened to withhold a significant amount of HRR.

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Old
10-26-2012, 10:50 PM
  #150
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I'm not going to punish the players or myself because of this stupidness. I love hockey too much and selfishly, I'm not giving up my great seats just to get in the back of the line a year or two down the road. I just hope they resolve it so that they don't have to go through this in another 5 years.

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