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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Whose side were you on, whose side are you on now

View Poll Results: Whose side?
Started Player side, still Player side 70 23.57%
Started Owner side, still Owner side 159 53.54%
Started Player side, now Owner side 59 19.87%
Started Owner side, now Player side 9 3.03%
Voters: 297. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-26-2012, 07:42 PM
  #26
ottawah
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I am on no ones, but I do think that :

A) What the owners are proposing in context of what the other 3 major leagues get is quite reasonable and

B) The players really have no end game, they are going to lose much more than they can gain by acting the way they have.

C) A linked salary cap is the only answer to ensuring a somewhat fair distribution of cash and talent (parity).


So I'm more pushing the players to bargain off the owners proposal because I think in the short, medium and long term is the best deal for them. It makes me sound pro owner I guess, but all ion all I want a parity driven league where the economics make sense and games start as soon as possible. To me the owners proposal fits the bill better.

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Old
10-26-2012, 07:49 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by MarkhamNHL View Post
i think 16 years of failure should suffice to know the obvious.
1. No, it's not. If that was the mindset, we wouldn't have tons of teams right now. Nor we would have the Jets return.
2. A period of financial instability in the country is not the time to make that judgement.
3. Phoenix is a huge market. 4.2 million+ people in its Metro area. 12th largest in the U.S. It is an important place to try and establish themselves in.
4. Even if it was true, it is irrelevant. There is no guarantee the alternatives are better, and it would cost the league significant expansion profits.

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Old
10-26-2012, 08:03 PM
  #28
Mayor Bee
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Every time that Krys Barch opens his mouth, I wonder how on earth anyone can still support the players.

(Yes, I know that he doesn't speak for everyone, but how someone like that wouldn't be slapped with a gag order or otherwise be distanced from blows my mind)

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Old
10-26-2012, 08:04 PM
  #29
HawksFan74
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Neither. They don't care about fans right now. Siding with one or the other is stupid unless you have a vested interest (I.E. you're a player or owner or related).

How many lockouts in how many years?

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Old
10-26-2012, 08:10 PM
  #30
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I'm on the side of figure this out and get it done. There's no reason for me to be on either side, I'm not going to rake in the rewards of a successful league or revenue split. Ticket, parking, and concession prices aren't going down and it's going to cost the same or more to continue watching games on TV as time passes by. Now if the benefits of revenues being split one way or the other were to be passed on to the consumer, I'd take a side, but that's not going to happen. We're the real losers in this.

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Old
10-26-2012, 08:33 PM
  #31
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Theres no reason to pick sides. Thats what they want you to do, and apparently the vast majority have done it.

Nice job everyone.

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Old
10-26-2012, 08:53 PM
  #32
MarkhamNHL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
1. No, it's not. If that was the mindset, we wouldn't have tons of teams right now. Nor we would have the Jets return.
2. A period of financial instability in the country is not the time to make that judgement.
3. Phoenix is a huge market. 4.2 million+ people in its Metro area. 12th largest in the U.S. It is an important place to try and establish themselves in.
4. Even if it was true, it is irrelevant. There is no guarantee the alternatives are better, and it would cost the league significant expansion profits.
which markets are the NHL in that have failed for 16 years then suddenly started to work in ?

a period of instability? this team has never made a dime.

it may be a big market, but as a hockey market it's a ghost town

not to worry the league will expand then relocate the coyotes to seattle. so rest assured, they will drain every possible expansion dollar.

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10-26-2012, 09:05 PM
  #33
Doug19
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Started owners, still owners. Players make more than what they deserve, they make more than what the market demands and that is all because with the previous CBA and the growth of the league, the players had the owners by the balls. Owners carry all the risk in this, they fork out tons of money to make the players lives comfortable not only through salary but through top notch facilities, doctors, transportation, etc. The long term health of the game is a big deal, and with the way things are now, there won't be an NHL in 10 years because every team but 10 will have to fold. Moving franchises won't matter, the best secondary markets the US has to offer are failing to make profits. Seattle? That's a joke, that market is just like Phoenix, a team will fail their as well. Kansas City? NHL could work there I'd bet, but outside of that city I don't think there are too many cities where the NHL would work in the US. The owners will win this battle because they can simply cancel seasons and instead of losing 20m they only lose the cost of there contracted staff. I'm proud of my Jacket's players though, not one of them has stepped out of line and presented themselves to be a jackass like other players such as Toews, Barch, etc.

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Old
10-26-2012, 09:12 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by MarkhamNHL View Post
which markets are the NHL in that have failed for 16 years then suddenly started to work in ?

a period of instability? this team has never made a dime.

it may be a big market, but as a hockey market it's a ghost town

not to worry the league will expand then relocate the coyotes to seattle. so rest assured, they will drain every possible expansion dollar.
Some of the most stable and higher-earning teams now went through intense periods of instability.

Before the period of financial instability in the entire U.S., Phoenix sucked. Of course they didn't make a ton of money.

You don't just expand to a place and get instant hockey fans. It takes time to build a foundation. Sometimes a generation.

Maybe hockey in Pheonix won't work, but the league does not throw away all of their work unless it is absolutely the last resort. You should be thankful, because that mentality likely either created your team, will save your team at some point in the future, or has saved it in the past.

And either way, the main point is, this was not solely an owner decision. Both the owners and the players wanted expansion into places like this, and in fact, one of the main PA player reps was a major voice for keeping the team in Phoenix.

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Old
10-26-2012, 09:13 PM
  #35
Freudian
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Way back I was neutral. Then NHLPA and Fehr said no to realignment and it was obvious what they were all about and they have proven it ever since.

I don't really see how anyone can be on Fehr's side. There are many moderate players who are getting screwed who I have a lot of sympathy for but they made their bed.

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Old
10-26-2012, 09:22 PM
  #36
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I wanted to believe the players had a legitimate series of concerns in the beginning and that their goal was to move to 50/50.

Now? This is a moneygrab. Plain and simple. Owners all the way.

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Old
10-26-2012, 10:50 PM
  #37
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So nice to see many of us are seeing right through the garbage that the Nhlpa is trying to sell us.
GO OWNERS GO.

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Old
10-26-2012, 10:52 PM
  #38
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both sides suck, but the owners are the lesser of two evils.

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Old
10-26-2012, 11:04 PM
  #39
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#2
owners side in 2004
owners side in 2012

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Old
10-26-2012, 11:10 PM
  #40
unifiedtheory
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Started out totally on the players side. I'm still their but my support is wavering a little bit.

I believe both parties are total ****ing idiots.

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Old
10-26-2012, 11:28 PM
  #41
Pilky01
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Players. All day.

They're already conceding revenues, and the owners are angry that they aren't conceding fast enough.

I blame Bettman and his owners entirely for this. They cultivated this toxic environment where there is absolutely no partnership or trust between the players and the owners.

It is dumbfounding to me that people would support a man/position that has had 20 years to create a stable league, yet still cant manage to avoid losing entire seasons at a time.

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Old
10-26-2012, 11:34 PM
  #42
Ragamuffin Gunner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkhamNHL View Post
isn't this the players point ?

record revenues... but you want us to take a pay cut ?
you want to keep the coyotes bleeding money where they are ?
your owners do not want to help each other out financially ?

let the players pay for the failing teams...
Is it really that hard to understand the difference between revenue and profit?

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Old
10-26-2012, 11:49 PM
  #43
MarkhamNHL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Is it really that hard to understand the difference between revenue and profit?
the league is profitable
is every team, no, and some never will be
but that's the way the league allows their share of the HRR to be split
amongst themselves... why is that so hard to grasp ?

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Old
10-26-2012, 11:51 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
Players. All day.

They're already conceding revenues, and the owners are angry that they aren't conceding fast enough.

I blame Bettman and his owners entirely for this. They cultivated this toxic environment where there is absolutely no partnership or trust between the players and the owners.

It is dumbfounding to me that people would support a man/position that has had 20 years to create a stable league, yet still cant manage to avoid losing entire seasons at a time.
Whats funny to me is that I guarantee if every single one of these people in this subforum were in the players' shoes, we would be doing the same thing as them, and I call ******** on every single person who disagrees.

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Old
10-26-2012, 11:54 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by AceintheSpace View Post
Whats funny to me is that I guarantee if every single one of these people in this subforum were in the players' shoes, we would be doing the same thing as them, and I call ******** on every single person who disagrees.
Yes, if I was a 23 year old hockey player, and all I had to do was play hockey with no obligations and let my agent and the NHLPA do everything I would.

BUT IN THE REAL WORLD...

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Old
10-26-2012, 11:59 PM
  #46
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Yes, if I was a 23 year old hockey player, and all I had to do was play hockey with no obligations and let my agent and the NHLPA do everything I would.

BUT IN THE REAL WORLD...

No buts.

If you were in their shoes, youd be doing the same thing. Admit it.

Im not defending, because im not pro-owner or pro-player. I separated business and sport a long time ago, but its foolish to think none of us would be acting the same as the players, and I dont believe anyone for a second who says otherwise.

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Old
10-27-2012, 12:01 AM
  #47
Pilky01
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Originally Posted by AceintheSpace View Post
No buts.

If you were in their shoes, youd be doing the same thing. Admit it.

Im not defending, because im not pro-owner or pro-player. I separated business and sport a long time ago, but its foolish to think none of us would be acting the same as the players, and I dont believe anyone for a second who says otherwise.
It so easy for internet millionaires to give away millions of dollars when they don't actually make it.

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Old
10-27-2012, 12:02 AM
  #48
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Just playing devils advocate.

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10-27-2012, 12:03 AM
  #49
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It so easy for internet millionaires to give away millions of dollars when they don't actually make it.

My ****ing point exactly.

These people whine and ***** and moan like clockwork, but guaranteed, theyd be doing the same damn thing.

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Old
10-27-2012, 12:06 AM
  #50
jeety mcjeet
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
Players. All day.

They're already conceding revenues, and the owners are angry that they aren't conceding fast enough.

I blame Bettman and his owners entirely for this. They cultivated this toxic environment where there is absolutely no partnership or trust between the players and the owners.

It is dumbfounding to me that people would support a man/position that has had 20 years to create a stable league, yet still cant manage to avoid losing entire seasons at a time.
The players hired the most hard-line representatives in all of sports IMO. NHLPA has yet to include in any proposal linkage. I'm on the owners side but I can admit that I don't agree with all their demands. However, for you to say that Bettman and his owners are to be blamed entirely for this is incorrect. Heaps of the blame belong to both sides.

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