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Old
10-27-2012, 06:23 AM
  #1
overlords
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Lockout discussion thread 2.0

Over/under on lockout threads is set at 5. Place your bets!

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10-27-2012, 07:38 AM
  #2
Crimson Skorpion
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Took us about a month and a half to reach the end of the first one. I'll go with the under and say 4, at most.

With AHL hockey, Galchenyuk heating up and NHL 13, I haven't really had time to care about the NHL these days. Of course I hope it comes back, but it's not eating away at me like I originally thought it would. Figure that.

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10-27-2012, 07:45 AM
  #3
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Over/under on lockout threads is set at 5. Place your bets!
10000000 to 1. I am, of course, offering the 1... Lol.

The whole lockout is idiotic, but it has one benefit for me: I am now in two basketball pools and am learning a lot more about the NBA than I ever knew before. The risk for the NHL is that people like me find a way to replace hockey for the short term, but get hooked for the long term. Right now, as far as sports go, I am a Hockey and NFL guy. I split my money between those two sports for my kids and I (tickets, shirts, memorabilia, etc...). As the lockout continues, I have started to watch NBA preseason games. I should have been more into Basketball in the past (especially since I coach it!), but the Habs and Cowboys kept all of my sports attention. With this lockout, if it goes too long, I will probably have a third sport to spend what little entertainment money I have to support. I have always loved the Celtics (thanks, Dad!), but have only been a casual NBA fan. Now? Well, joining a fantasy league will get me far more involved in watching and learning about the NBA and I think it will take a portion of my time away from hockey. Sorry, NHL, but you will lose revenue from at least one little teacher if this lockout continues too long.


Quote:
originally posted by DAChampion

You say you work as hard as Sidney Crosby, but if Crosby showed up at the gym and his trainer told him to he was doing everything well when he wasn't, or his trainer was drunk, Crosby would fire his trainer.
You might want to edit that post of yours since I would be Crosby in that analogy and you would be the trainer deserving of being fired... Keep in mind, your post was a reply to mine about when I was a student at a University, and the drunk professor was not someone I could fire...although we agree he should have been fired. LOL!!

Quote:
originally posted by bsl

Molson had better lobby hard for a repeat of last years draft positions then. I would if I was him.

There is no reason to revert to a general draft with multiple playoff missing teams the winners. It's stupid.

But to add to the insult of missing a season when the Habs can afford to play and pay, The NHL will **** this up too and Habs will get screwed.
I truly hope that, if the season is lost but we come back with the same teams and players with a new CBA, then the draft positions should not be changed too drastically. Of course, the problem with that is how hard it is to determine which teams would have truly improved and which would not. I would love for the Habs to get another top 3 pick to build with, but I honestly think the Habs would make the playoffs this season (barring injuries to multiple key personnel, again!). So, how is the NHL supposed to make a fair determination about draft positions? Is it really fair to give the Oilers ANOTHER 1st overall pick? I don't know, it seems hard to justify.

I think the NHL would have to go to a lottery system, again. Although they should ensure that teams can not drop or raise 3-5 positions more than where they were last year if they do that system.


Last edited by Drydenwasthebest: 10-27-2012 at 07:58 AM.
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Old
10-27-2012, 08:05 AM
  #4
Drydenwasthebest
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Took us about a month and a half to reach the end of the first one. I'll go with the under and say 4, at most.

With AHL hockey, Galchenyuk heating up and NHL 13, I haven't really had time to care about the NHL these days. Of course I hope it comes back, but it's not eating away at me like I originally thought it would. Figure that.
Any information on how well Galchenyuk's knee is holding up? I love hearing how well he is doing. I am really looking forward to him ending up better than Yakupov... That would be priceless.

I also agree that it is strangely not as life altering being without hockey as I thought it would be. At first it was something bothering me, but it has almost stopped being an issue. I guess people will find other ways to spend their entertainment income if one form is not available.

Man, if the NHLPA and NHL does not come together soon, I hope the Owners simply bring up replacement players. I want my Habs to be playing and would really hope young guys like Galchenyuk, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Gallagher, etc...would move up as replacement players.

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10-27-2012, 08:49 AM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
if the NHLPA and NHL does not come together soon, I hope the Owners simply bring up replacement players. I want my Habs to be playing and would really hope young guys like Galchenyuk, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Gallagher, etc...would move up as replacement players.
Bringing in replacement players is not going to happen:

Quote:
  • Quebec and British Columbia do not allow replacement workers in most circumstances. Also, Canada and U.S. laws forbid the use of replacement workers from outside the country, which could leave U.S. teams restricted to using American players and Canadian teams restricted to Canadian players.
  • The replacement player scenario would likely begin with the league declaring a negotiating impasse - a claim that its dispute with the players cannot be resolved through collective bargaining. It could then impose new terms of employment without consulting the NHL Players' Association.
  • The Players' Association would almost certainly challenge that move by filing a complaint with the National Labor Relations Board in the United States. That would begin a process of appeals and hearings that could take months, to determine whether the NHL has negotiated in good faith throughout the dispute.
  • If the NLRB rules in favour of the Players' Association, the two sides would return to bargaining. If it rules in favor of the NHL, the league would have the right to impose its last, best collective bargaining offer and open for business under those terms.
  • After losing the appeal, the players could go on strike.
  • Another option for the NHLPA would be to decertify - cease to exist - leaving individual to decide whether to return to the NHL. Former NHLPA members could then attempt to sue the NHL under anti-trust laws, particularly if salaries took a big hit under the new arrangement.

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10-27-2012, 11:40 AM
  #6
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Originally Posted by impudent_lowlife View Post
Bringing in replacement players is not going to happen:
Thanks for the information. Out of curiosity, how did the NFL manage to do it, though? Also, didn't the NFL set a precedent when they did it, or have new laws been passed since that would prevent it? AH, well, one can always hope the the Owners and NHLPA get off their collective butts and get a new CBA in place soon.

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10-27-2012, 11:44 AM
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The NFL & MLB got to use replacement players in the past because it's their respective Players Associations who declared a strike. ~roughly.

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10-27-2012, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
The NFL & MLB got to use replacement players in the past because it's their respective Players Associations who declared a strike. ~roughly.
And then it was Keanu's time to shine...

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10-27-2012, 12:40 PM
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I won't attend any regular season games unless i get a deal from the scalpers.

I wonder if all the teams are united.... bet all the serious franchises just want to get it going.

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10-27-2012, 01:16 PM
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I wonder if all the teams are united.... bet all the serious franchises just want to get it going.
From what I understand, 2/3 of teams would have to vote "yes" on a proposal to overrule Bettman. But, who calls a vote? Can it be called by any of the BOG reps? From what I understand, the negotiators rejected the recent NHLPA proposals immediately without a vote...

Same question for the NHLPA: how does it get decided which proposals to vote on, and which to just reject?

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10-27-2012, 04:44 PM
  #11
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These threads are dull without a poll to get the discussion juices flowing...

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10-27-2012, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
You might want to edit that post of yours since I would be Crosby in that analogy and you would be the trainer deserving of being fired... Keep in mind, your post was a reply to mine about when I was a student at a University, and the drunk professor was not someone I could fire...although we agree he should have been fired. LOL!!
Nope. I said I'd have a glass to drink. I never said I'd do work drunk, the two are completely different. Similarly, I have a cup of coffee every morning, which is good, not five cups, which would be a hazard.

Work on your reading comprehension skills. I hope you don't teach English.


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10-27-2012, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
From what I understand, 2/3 of teams would have to vote "yes" on a proposal to overrule Bettman. But, who calls a vote? Can it be called by any of the BOG reps? From what I understand, the negotiators rejected the recent NHLPA proposals immediately without a vote...

Same question for the NHLPA: how does it get decided which proposals to vote on, and which to just reject?
I wouldn't think votes are required for either side in terms of rejecting proposals. The BOG probably has some key elements they want to see happen in the next CBA which Bettman is well aware of in detail. If any of these key points are not to the satisfaction of what the BOG wants, Bettman just rejects it outright. Similar situation would apply to the NHLPA I would imagine.

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10-27-2012, 06:57 PM
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if the winter classic get cancel and they have about a week and half or pay a 3 million fee. the season maybe lost

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10-27-2012, 07:09 PM
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Does anyone Know if the NHLPA is a certified union if so their allowed to get benefits from gov't because if its a real union no union member should go into a arena in which the players work

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10-27-2012, 07:36 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie Williams View Post
I wouldn't think votes are required for either side in terms of rejecting proposals. The BOG probably has some key elements they want to see happen in the next CBA which Bettman is well aware of in detail. If any of these key points are not to the satisfaction of what the BOG wants, Bettman just rejects it outright. Similar situation would apply to the NHLPA I would imagine.
...but the 94-95 lockout ended with the BOG going against Bettman's wishes. Whose initiative prompted that vote? If there are dissenting owners now, would one of them be able to force a vote?

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10-27-2012, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
The NFL & MLB got to use replacement players in the past because it's their respective Players Associations who declared a strike. ~roughly.
I'm ready.

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10-27-2012, 09:46 PM
  #18
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I'm ready.
So am I.

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Old
10-27-2012, 09:48 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Nope. I said I'd have a glass to drink. I never said I'd do work drunk, the two are completely different. Similarly, I have a cup of coffee every morning, which is good, not five cups, which would be a hazard.

Work on your reading comprehension skills. I hope you don't teach English.
LOL. Here is a napkin to wipe that egg off. You have my permission to get the last word in on this one since you need it so badly...

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10-29-2012, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
I truly hope that, if the season is lost but we come back with the same teams and players with a new CBA, then the draft positions should not be changed too drastically. Of course, the problem with that is how hard it is to determine which teams would have truly improved and which would not. I would love for the Habs to get another top 3 pick to build with, but I honestly think the Habs would make the playoffs this season (barring injuries to multiple key personnel, again!). So, how is the NHL supposed to make a fair determination about draft positions? Is it really fair to give the Oilers ANOTHER 1st overall pick? I don't know, it seems hard to justify.

I think the NHL would have to go to a lottery system, again. Although they should ensure that teams can not drop or raise 3-5 positions more than where they were last year if they do that system.
The "best" solution, in my opinion, would be to simply push the draft age back to 19. You've got a new CBA to negotiate, the draft is governed by the CBA, it seems like an easy concession for the players to make. Screws over the few 18 year olds who may have made it to the NHL right off the bat, but how many of those are there anyways? 5-7 a year? In the meantime teams get a better handle on the players they are going to draft, what with them being a year older and all, junior teams get to keep their stars, and we don't have to screw around with some sort of bizarre lottery that in the end really doesn't make much sense to anybody.

Similarly, if the season is lost (and I still don't think it will be) it would also be the perfect opportunity to re-do the schedule so it's not finishing in the summer. Have training camp start in August (players have been off for a year, they won't need to recuperate from a long playoff run), and the season start on Labour Day. "Close the cottage, open the arena!" One month earlier than it normally does, in other words. Stanley Cup would then wrap up in early May, thus freeing up more players for the World Championship, and keeping fans who might otherwise have been engaged in more summer-like activities. Victoria Day Draft, free agency begins June 1st, everybody enjoys July with their families.


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10-29-2012, 05:07 PM
  #21
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The "best" solution, in my opinion, would be to simply push the draft age back to 19. You've got a new CBA to negotiate, the draft is governed by the CBA, it seems like an easy concession for the players to make. Screws over the few 18 year olds who may have made it to the NHL right off the bat, but how many of those are there anyways? 5-7 a year? In the meantime teams get a better handle on the players they are going to draft, what with them being a year older and all, junior teams get to keep their stars, and we don't have to screw around with some sort of bizarre lottery that in the end really doesn't make much sense to anybody.

Similarly, if the season is lost (and I still don't think it will be) it would also be the perfect opportunity to re-do the schedule so it's not finishing in the summer. Have training camp start in August (players have been off for a year, they won't need to recuperate from a long playoff run), and the season start on Labour Day. "Close the cottage, open the arena!" One month earlier than it normally does, in other words. Stanley Cup would then wrap up in early May, thus freeing up more players for the World Championship, and keeping fans who might otherwise have been engaged in more summer-like activities. Victoria Day Draft, free agency begins June 1st, everybody enjoys July with their families.
Can I say I honestly love the way you think? Fantastic post, best of the thread.

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Old
10-30-2012, 08:59 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
The "best" solution, in my opinion, would be to simply push the draft age back to 19. You've got a new CBA to negotiate, the draft is governed by the CBA, it seems like an easy concession for the players to make. Screws over the few 18 year olds who may have made it to the NHL right off the bat, but how many of those are there anyways? 5-7 a year? In the meantime teams get a better handle on the players they are going to draft, what with them being a year older and all, junior teams get to keep their stars, and we don't have to screw around with some sort of bizarre lottery that in the end really doesn't make much sense to anybody.

Similarly, if the season is lost (and I still don't think it will be) it would also be the perfect opportunity to re-do the schedule so it's not finishing in the summer. Have training camp start in August (players have been off for a year, they won't need to recuperate from a long playoff run), and the season start on Labour Day. "Close the cottage, open the arena!" One month earlier than it normally does, in other words. Stanley Cup would then wrap up in early May, thus freeing up more players for the World Championship, and keeping fans who might otherwise have been engaged in more summer-like activities. Victoria Day Draft, free agency begins June 1st, everybody enjoys July with their families.
You know what? That's a brilliant idea. if the NHL is going to base their draft on results of the season, then if there is no season, no draft. Makes perfect sense.

The most fair draft solution by far. Brilliant. And the 2014 draft would be killing. To be fair to young players, add an extra 2 rounds, one time only.

And starting early next year, and keeping it that way, is also a very good idea.

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10-30-2012, 09:15 AM
  #23
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It has been at least a week since I really bothered to think about the strike, and that is bad news for the league.

If guys like me, who have loved the NHL all their lives, from the 70's to now, who follow the game, commentary, twitter, FB, websites, blogs... if we start to wane, imagine what the general fan feels.

I can not stand to listen to another Bob McKenzie/Dreger/Gagnon/fill-in-the-blank report or comment about the nothingness that is the CBA negotiation.

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10-30-2012, 09:58 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
The "best" solution, in my opinion, would be to simply push the draft age back to 19. You've got a new CBA to negotiate, the draft is governed by the CBA, it seems like an easy concession for the players to make. Screws over the few 18 year olds who may have made it to the NHL right off the bat, but how many of those are there anyways? 5-7 a year? In the meantime teams get a better handle on the players they are going to draft, what with them being a year older and all, junior teams get to keep their stars, and we don't have to screw around with some sort of bizarre lottery that in the end really doesn't make much sense to anybody.
What would happen to previously traded 2013 picks?

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10-30-2012, 12:10 PM
  #25
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It has been at least a week since I really bothered to think about the strike, and that is bad news for the league.

If guys like me, who have loved the NHL all their lives, from the 70's to now, who follow the game, commentary, twitter, FB, websites, blogs... if we start to wane, imagine what the general fan feels.

I can not stand to listen to another Bob McKenzie/Dreger/Gagnon/fill-in-the-blank report or comment about the nothingness that is the CBA negotiation.
Complete apathy is probably one of the few outside pressures that could lead to a quick resolution of this lockout. It would require the media to boycott all lockout/NHL/NHLPA related news, which will never happen, but IMO, it would definitely force both sides to negotiate to get a deal done as opposed to negotiate to gain leverage.

As long as someone is covering the daily minutiae of the lockout and reporting, both sides will continue to play the 'victim' in the media instead of working to get a deal done.

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