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Suter Calls Out Leipold re: Contract Roll Backs

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Old
10-27-2012, 12:34 PM
  #26
ThirdManIn
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I changed the title. I think this is more fitting.

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10-27-2012, 12:36 PM
  #27
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FWIW: Contracts technically aren't hard cash, but a % of the players cut of HRR. So if it goes 50/50, players will get less than their projected money, but not actually "less than their contract".

Anyway, I would feel bad if it was anyone but Suter, but he should know better than to trust Leopold.

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10-27-2012, 12:36 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Was Ryan Suter unaware that the collective bargaining agreement that he negotiated his contract under the parameters of was set to expire? Sounds like he should be upset with his agent, not his owner.

What a ****ing moron.
I suspect Ryan Suter is unaware of a lot of things ... Luckily for him his agent was aware enough of the impending CBA negotiations to negotiate him a bonus laden contract.

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10-27-2012, 12:36 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by dubey View Post
Nothing wrong with what Suter said

If owners can't afford signing contracts that large, they shouldn't have signed them.
Except that the players are still going to have to be paid 57% of revenues. And players/agents are still going to demand these large contracts. The Wild couldn't simply pay Suter less, not when he's going around to teams trying to get each of them to make their offers better.

Blame needs to land on the NHLPA for activating the 5% escalator on the salary cap. Without that cap, would Suter and Parise be signed for what they are? Would Weber?

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10-27-2012, 12:37 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingman77 View Post
It is not fair to the players because they signed the contracts which their owners agreed to and now their owners are now attempting to breach those contracts

However being upset over losing a few million dollars when you will already be making plenty of millions? Cry me a ****ing river
They aren't breaching the contract when a SPC says that the contract may be changed due to future CBAs

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10-27-2012, 12:38 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I don't know why Suter and Parise are whining. They knew this was coming and that is why they negotiated for a giant signing bonus. How can they complain about the owners not negotiating in good faith when you cash in $10M without possibly having to play a single game?
Yup. I would find it hard to believe they didn't have any idea that this was entirely possible. That or their agents weren't doing their job.

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10-27-2012, 12:38 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Jerzey Devil View Post
It's not fair of the owners or the league to try to change contracts that were already signed. They should have to honor all contracts that are already in tact.

That being said it does bring a slight smile to my face that his relationship with his new owner is off to a bad start.
Don't want to blow your mind, or anything, but two of the seven years in the last CBA, players were actually paid MORE than the face value of their contracts. The other five years they were paid less than the face value of their contracts. They were already paying into escrow. They should upheld aware of this and used to it.

The whole, "Do the right thing and honor existing contracts" line is just propaganda.

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10-27-2012, 12:46 PM
  #33
GordieHoweHatTrick
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Why are people pissing on Suter? He's questioning whether the contract he signed was negotiated in good faith

Quote:
"It's disappointing. If you can't afford to (sign contracts) then you shouldn't do it," Suter said. "(Leipold) signed us to contracts. At the time he said everything was fine. Yeah, it's disappointing. A couple months before, everything is fine, and now they want to take money out of our contracts that we already signed."
What is wrong with anything he said?

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10-27-2012, 12:55 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Why are people pissing on Suter? He's questioning whether the contract he signed was negotiated in good faith



What is wrong with anything he said?
I imagine he's free to give any bonus money back...

Maybe his agent should have told him: "ya know what, with this CBA thing still up in the air, maybe you should just wait till a new CBA is in effect before you sign any contract."

Would that have been a better course of action?
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Last edited by Fugu: 10-27-2012 at 01:10 PM. Reason: no he doesn't, drop the hyperbole
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10-27-2012, 12:55 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kypredsfan View Post
How convenient: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...7617--nhl.html

**** off Suter. It's because players like you were all about going for the payday that helped cause this mess.
The audacity of him! To sign with the highest bidder! What a monster!



I would love to have been privy to those contract discussions.

There is no way the issue of the upcoming CBA wasn't raised by Suter and/or his representation. I would love to know what kind of answers they got. And then to see that same man lead the charge to slash your contract. It would be pretty insulting.

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10-27-2012, 01:01 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iiuh View Post
Lol at all the people going "**** off Suter", when has every right to be upset here. It doesn't matter if its for millions of dollars or just 1 dollar a contract is a contract. I don't see how anyone can be hating on Suter here just because he's still making money despite being screwed out of potentially millions of dollars.
Contract also has a section that says the amount may be subject to change by future collective bargaining agreements...

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10-27-2012, 01:03 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
I imagine he's free to give any bonus money back...

Maybe his agent should have told him: "ya know what, with this CBA thing still up in the air, maybe you should just wait till a new CBA is in effect before you sign any contract."

Would that have been a better course of action?
These guys act like they turned down offers of 10% less to go play in another league or something so they will be out money. Nevermind the whole make hole thing the owners proposed.

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10-27-2012, 01:07 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
I imagine he's free to give any bonus money back...

Maybe his agent should have told him: "ya know what, with this CBA thing still up in the air, maybe you should just wait till a new CBA is in effect before you sign any contract."

Would that have been a better course of action?
Maybe the Owners shouldn't have given out these ridiculous contracts with the intentions of rolling them back shortly after. That sort of business practice seems to be pissing the NHLPA off to the highest degree. The blame game works both ways.

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Last edited by Fugu: 10-27-2012 at 01:11 PM. Reason: deleted it from the quoted post
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Old
10-27-2012, 01:09 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Suter is surprised that Leipold might not have conducted business in good faith? What? Did he learn nothing in 2007?

I have no sympathy for any of them.

What's worse is that Leipold is part of the negotiating committee. He damn well knew what the NHL would be asking for and the league's bottom line.

It had occurred to me that Suter should have known better. He should point a finger at his agent too, who seems a bit too close to him on this one.

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10-27-2012, 01:10 PM
  #40
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I was a big fan of junior hockey before, I'm becoming a bigger fan of it by the minute.

Not one crap do I give about the CBA process any longer. When these guys are smiling, scoring goals, lifting cups, being cheered, having moronic reporters gush praise in lowest common denominators so that the majority of these "men" can respond, take note, they're doing so as a once and oft protesting union of millionaires in dark times said by some to get darker...Their opinions are only less annoying than the confidence behind them.

Can't wait for the world juniors...


Last edited by ITM: 10-27-2012 at 01:15 PM.
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10-27-2012, 01:10 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Maybe the Owners shouldn't have given out these ridiculous contracts with the intentions of rolling them back shortly after. That sort of business practice seems to be pissing the NHLPA off to the highest degree. The blame game works both ways.

And where did I make it sound like "he's gonna be in the soup line any day now"? Sounds like something you told yourself because I never cried "poor Suter!"
Maybe the NHLPA shouldn't have approved a cap jumped to $70+ mil going into a cba negotiation?

Can play this game all day...

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10-27-2012, 01:10 PM
  #42
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If the summer had not seen a wholesale orgy of GMs and players (usually via their agents) brokering deals to exploit every loophole that might be closed I would have more sympathy for him. A few months ago he, Parise and Leipold manipulated the system together, why would he expect Leipold to stop manipulating the system.

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10-27-2012, 01:14 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Maybe the NHLPA shouldn't have approved a cap jumped to $70+ mil going into a cba negotiation?

Can play this game all day...
Exactly.

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10-27-2012, 01:14 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Maybe the Owners shouldn't have given out these ridiculous contracts with the intentions of rolling them back shortly after. That sort of business practice seems to be pissing the NHLPA off to the highest degree. The blame game works both ways.

And where did I make it sound like "he's gonna be in the soup line any day now"? Sounds like something you told yourself because I never cried "poor Suter!"
The owners and GMs are trying to compete with other owners and GMs. Suter and Parise made as much money as they did because they were the best FAs this summer. They didn't make 10% extra because owners were calculating on salaries being reduced.

Player demands and agents are as much driving force for inflation as the owners are.

Some of these complaints are bizarre. Kovalchuk insisting he should be a $100M man in the summer of 2011 and having no problem with betraying the very idea of a salary cap when he signed a circumvention contract but if he lose a few percent of his mammoth salary he threatens to go back to Russia.

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10-27-2012, 01:14 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Maybe the NHLPA shouldn't have approved a cap jumped to $70+ mil going into a cba negotiation?

Can play this game all day...

What in the world?

The old CBA was in effect, with two years straight of 9% or higher growth. A 5% escalator would easily be met, and the players' share was 57% per the CBA in effect at the time.

In other words, the league set the cap.

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10-27-2012, 01:14 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Shoalzie View Post
A tip to players not involved in the CBA talks...shut up and wait until it's okay to get back on the ice. We love hockey players mostly because they keep their mouths shut and just play the game.
So much this. I'm too exhausted even to point out why Suter's arguments in this case are false. Players are there to play hockey. Fans are there to fund and support hockey teams where players play hockey. Hockey teams are there that players could play hockey with and against other hockey players.

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10-27-2012, 01:17 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
The owners and GMs are trying to compete with other owners and GMs. Suter and Parise made as much money as they did because they were the best FAs this summer. They didn't make 10% extra because owners were calculating on salaries being reduced.

Player demands and agents are as much driving force for inflation as the owners are.


Some of these complaints are bizarre. Kovalchuk insisting he should be a $100M man in the summer of 2011 and having no problem with betraying the very idea of a salary cap when he signed a circumvention contract but if he lose a few percent of his mammoth salary he threatens to go back to Russia.

Up to a point, I agree. The teams in fact are in an inflationary cycle due to their cap system. Every year, if HRR grows, they have to spend more money.

If you factor in that there aren't that many elite UFAs, that more and more were getting locked up with very long contracts-- diminishing supply, you see the cut throat antics of the teams (e.g., Weber, conceding that yes, the CBA allowed it) --- it's not surprising.

The only issue I take with the league though is in not addressing they have an inflationary system.

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10-27-2012, 01:17 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
What in the world?

The old CBA was in effect, with two years straight of 9% or higher growth. A 5% escalator would easily be met, and the players' share was 57% per the CBA in effect at the time.

In other words, the league set the cap.
The league sets out what it can be but the NHLPA has final say:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/...%20to%20%2464m

Quote:
TORONTO -- The NHL Players' Association has decided to trigger the growth factor in the salary cap for next season, pushing the upper limit to roughly US$64 million.

A source told The Canadian Press that the union's executive board voted via conference call Monday to have five per cent added to the calculation of next year's salary cap -- a decision it gets to make each spring to account for inflation. The NHLPA has chosen to have the five per cent added every year but one since it was brought into existence.
(This is for last season, but the NHLPA has to trigger this for the cap to increase. They only opted not to once during this last CBA, and decided to trigger it shortly before this CBA was up)

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10-27-2012, 01:18 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
What's worse is that Leipold is part of the negotiating committee. He damn well knew what the NHL would be asking for and the league's bottom line.

It had occurred to me that Suter should have known better. He should point a finger at his agent too, who seems a bit too close to him on this one.
I agree with you. Plus, all the owners and players are making deals based on unknown revenue projections. Meaning, this lockout has a good potential to make a lot more teams and players start hurting because no one is negotiating. Lots of rich players are crying on twitter while talking about their Ferrari's.

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10-27-2012, 01:18 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Section337 View Post
If the summer had not seen a wholesale orgy of GMs and players (usually via their agents) brokering deals to exploit every loophole that might be closed I would have more sympathy for him. A few months ago he, Parise and Leipold manipulated the system together, why would he expect Leipold to stop manipulating the system.
Agreed. All these 6+ year second contracts being signed in September when NHL proposes a max contract length of 5 years.

I know it's a competitive business but the left hand should smack some sense into the right hand. The optics of what happened doesn't help the owners.

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