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Edmonton Eskimos (IV): playoffs @ Toronto next week; Tillman fired

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Old
10-27-2012, 03:36 PM
  #251
Moonlapse Vertigo
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14-0 Argonauts in the 1st quarter.

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10-27-2012, 03:49 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Quote:
Not your best work.

QB ratings? lol. Joseph passed for over 4000yds in 2008 on a bad Argos team with not much to speak of in terms of weapons. Was their anything wrong with Josephs performance or rating the year before in Sask? Not that I put any merit whatsoever in QB ratings which are being falsely applied to the CFL.

You clearly blame Crandell, Macciocia, or whoever for RR's shortcomings here. What about Jacques Chapdelaine though who has had success everywhere but here with RR? That could do nothing with RR but has benefited the other offences he's worked with. Inconvenient truth?

What of the current year in Toronto with Ray in a new offense tailored for him still only tossing for 12TD's? Not much different under Milanovich is it? This was supposed to be the year acccording to many of you Ray backers that he was going to show the Eskimos everything they'd been doing wrong with him all these years...or here's a thought, maybe its just an ordinary Ray being ordinary.

Its interesting that you note the team now has success through use of the rollout. Interesting because thats not something thats available with Ray who is a straight drop back passer in a league not necessarily well suited for that.

Ray hasn't had much going for him since 2005. Even in that year the Eskimos offence was suspect much of the campaign and going down the stretch the club had to be rescued by Maas or the Eskimos wouldn't have won the cup that year. Fact is Ray only has one other cup in a long career here with this team and did nothing of note the past half dozen seasons here. Fact is your heralded RR is arguably farther past best before date then the cup winner from 2007. Despite their relative ages.

Don't confuse where Joseph was a couple seasons either. Its poor reasoning to suggest that where a veteran QB was on the depth chart is indicative of his capability. Clearly at that time this was RR's team. For whatever reason. This does not equate to an unseen Joseph being incapable at the time.

If you can't see that Joseph can still play the game at a high level I'm not sure what you're watching.
Lets revisit after Joseph's scintillating 6/24 performance shall we?

Just to get something out of the way...lets take a look at the real numbers for Joseph in TO and not the cherry picked version you presented.



Year Team Comp Att % Yards TD Ints Rating
2008 TOR 307 536 57.3 4,174 17 14 82.0
2009 TOR 185 337 54.9 2,244 10 16 65.7

Speaks for itself that you think those are solid numbers. Maybe that also explains why you thought a 30 year old Jyles just needed more time to become a starter.

Rays numbers as an Eskimo speaks for itself. There was more success than failure especially considering the s**t show management that existed here during most of Rays tenure.

Certainly a massive step above Jospehs or Jyles numbers. Hell you can even add their numbers together and it still falls short.

Also not surprised that you blamed RR for the loss last week after putting up 20/33 for 383yds and 4 TD's.

Lordy your perspective when it comes to the QB position defines myopic.


Last edited by guymez: 10-27-2012 at 04:31 PM.
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Old
10-27-2012, 04:30 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
14-0 Argonauts in the 1st quarter.
Ray and the offense has looked pretty good in the 1st half...a solid followup from last week.

Hopefully the defense can do their part and TO can beat a western rival in their own barn.

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10-27-2012, 04:46 PM
  #254
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Surprised at Sask's performance thus far. If they lose this game, the possibility of us finishing 3rd in the west is suddenly right back in the picture.

Justin Beiber is part of the halftime show? . Great pick there Toronto, I'm sure there will be tons of 13 year old girls at the game.

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10-27-2012, 05:24 PM
  #255
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Weird as this may be, if Toronto wins this game our chances of the crossover are considerably reduced. I'd say we would be more likely to make the playoffs in the West, or miss them entirely.

With an somewhat unexpected win today, the Argos would have nothing to play for next week and probably rest starters against Hamilton, who will be playing for their lives if we lose tomorrow. Sask is in BC to end the season, and the Lions will probably play all their starters with a 2-week layoff ahead of them. If we win any more games, we're probably 3rd in the west and Sask heads east, if we don't Hamilton probably beats us out for 3rd in the East. Sort of an odd turn of events possibly unfolding.

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10-27-2012, 05:45 PM
  #256
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Ray has 8 TD passes over the past two games. We all know that he's capable but it's been a while since he's put up TD production like that.

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10-27-2012, 05:57 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guymez View Post
Ray and the offense has looked pretty good in the 1st half...a solid followup from last week.

Hopefully the defense can do their part and TO can beat a western rival in their own barn.

Any particular reason you wanted the Argos to win? It makes the Esks task more difficult.

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10-27-2012, 06:03 PM
  #258
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I don't know if if a Toronto win was better for us, or worse. Probably worse, but when we win the last game it won't matter so much.

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10-27-2012, 06:56 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Ray has 8 TD passes over the past two games. We all know that he's capable but it's been a while since he's put up TD production like that.
That's two more than Jyles had the entire season.

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10-27-2012, 07:03 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
Any particular reason you wanted the Argos to win? It makes the Esks task more difficult.
I am not a fan of the crossover. As improbable as it is I would much rather have the Riders lose their remaining games and the Esks win the next 2 to get in.

EDIT: Actually if the Esks win their remaining games it doesn't matter if the Riders win or not...the Esks are in.
A tall order to be sure but I would rather see the team earn their spot in the Western playoffs.


Last edited by guymez: 10-27-2012 at 07:16 PM.
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10-27-2012, 07:08 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Ray has 8 TD passes over the past two games. We all know that he's capable but it's been a while since he's put up TD production like that.
Ray was 24/30 for 305 yds 4 TDs and 1 Int in this game.


So far to close out the season Ray is 44/63 for 688 yds 8 TD's and 1 Int...so he has completed 70% of his passes in the last 2 weeks. The Int should have been caught so its not really on Ray.

Not bad for a washed up QB.

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10-27-2012, 07:09 PM
  #262
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I think it was better that Toronto won today since it still keeps Edmonton within striking distance of Saskatchewan and still puts pressure on Hamilton to win their last game of the season just to have a chance to get in. Plus, the Esks may only have to win once, and the possibilities exist that they can get in either way.

If Esks qualify via crossover, they can finish no higher than 3rd regardless, so it doesn't matter if Toronto finishes with a better or worse record than us. Hamilton is who we have to worry about and with the TiCats having won just once on the road all season, history isn't in their favor. Plus, the Argos are likely motivated to knock out their rivals from the playoffs.

Also, Saskatchewan losing their 3rd in a row gives them negative momentum heading into BC next week. If they can't turn it around, Edmonton's task is to only win one of their remaining games as opposed to both had the Riders won today. Granted, Montreal and Calgary aren't exactly teams I look forward to playing, but now Edmonton may only have to win once instead of possibly having to be forced to win two tough matchups.

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10-27-2012, 07:20 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Pesky Hemsky View Post
I think it was better that Toronto won today since it still keeps Edmonton within striking distance of Saskatchewan and still puts pressure on Hamilton to win their last game of the season just to have a chance to get in. Plus, the Esks may only have to win once, and the possibilities exist that they can get in either way.

If Esks qualify via crossover, they can finish no higher than 3rd regardless, so it doesn't matter if Toronto finishes with a better or worse record than us. Hamilton is who we have to worry about and with the TiCats having won just once on the road all season, history isn't in their favor. Plus, the Argos are likely motivated to knock out their rivals from the playoffs.

Also, Saskatchewan losing their 3rd in a row gives them negative momentum heading into BC next week. If they can't turn it around, Edmonton's task is to only win one of their remaining games as opposed to both had the Riders won today. Granted, Montreal and Calgary aren't exactly teams I look forward to playing, but now Edmonton may only have to win once instead of possibly having to be forced to win two tough matchups.
I don't think the match ups are as tough as they could be. Both teams will be giving some of their starters spot duty as there is no reason for either team to have to win any of their remaining games.
All the Esks need is an average performance from whatever QB ends up behind the centre.

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10-27-2012, 08:03 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guymez View Post
Ray was 24/30 for 305 yds 4 TDs and 1 Int in this game.


So far to close out the season Ray is 44/63 for 688 yds 8 TD's and 1 Int...so he has completed 70% of his passes in the last 2 weeks. The Int should have been caught so its not really on Ray.

Not bad for a washed up QB.
no, he is washed up... we are better without ray and all the "cap flexibility" that we now have

funny how certain people are never around after good games by ray, isn't it?

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10-27-2012, 08:05 PM
  #265
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no, he is washed up... we are better without ray and all the "cap flexibility" that we now have

funny how certain people are never around after good games by ray, isn't it?
Last year:

Argo's last. Esks 2nd.

This year:

Esks last. Argo's 2nd.

I wonder what changed....

Tillman said it should be his job on the line after week 2.

Hopefully the BOG agrees.

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10-27-2012, 08:52 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Surprised at Sask's performance thus far. If they lose this game, the possibility of us finishing 3rd in the west is suddenly right back in the picture.

Justin Beiber is part of the halftime show? . Great pick there Toronto, I'm sure there will be tons of 13 year old girls at the game.
Beiber is one of the biggest names in music right now so this is a great move by them. You obviously don't pick the music based on the people at the game ...it's all about tv exposure for the CFL.

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10-27-2012, 09:42 PM
  #267
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Beiber is one of the biggest names in music right now so this is a great move by them. You obviously don't pick the music based on the people at the game ...it's all about tv exposure for the CFL.
I doubt there's going to be too many teenage girls watching on TV either. Men aged 25-70 probably make up 75% of the viewership. But at least they went with a Canadian act, instead of pulling a BC Lions and bringing in an American band that nobody watching the game either cared about or had even heard of (Black Eyed Peas).

Looks like we're staying in the West if we get in. At the end of the day, while the East may provide an easier road, it's just a cheap and embarrassing way to make the playoffs. Calgary is far from unbeatable in the semi-final anyway, while both BC or Montreal would likely kick our ***** in the division final so I don't know how much really changes.

Ray missing those games may end up being a blessing in disguise for Toronto. He's fresh coming down the stretch, and has turned in a couple of great performances. Would have been nice if we had that version of Ray down the stretch last year, we'd have won the Grey Cup.

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10-27-2012, 10:29 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by PDO View Post
Last year:

Argo's last. Esks 2nd.

This year:

Esks last. Argo's 2nd.


I wonder what changed....

Tillman said it should be his job on the line after week 2.

Hopefully the BOG agrees.
Oh for crying out loud, we had identical records earlier today. Way to split hairs.

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10-27-2012, 10:33 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Ray has 8 TD passes over the past two games. We all know that he's capable but it's been a while since he's put up TD production like that.
I really can't remember when. But people anointing him a savior again should note that the Same RR that has 8TD's in two games had only 12 in his first 11 starts in Toronto.

It cuts both ways. The Ray camp was saying **** all about that all year. A lot of timing posts going on right now by people that had no answers to Rays ineptitude most of the season.

Lets be Frank here. The Argos had 4 starts in a row in the Riders end to start the game and short fields to work with to put up the first couple TD's. Playing against a Riders D that didn't look like it woke up till the second half.

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10-28-2012, 01:26 AM
  #270
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no, he is washed up... we are better without ray and all the "cap flexibility" that we now have

funny how certain people are never around after good games by ray, isn't it?

Funny indeed.

Yup...nothing like dumping the best player in the most important position on the team in an effort to save cap space so you can make the team better.

Then as a topper you don't bother to fill the QB cupboard...trade said QB to a team that has nothing to offer in the way of QB prospects...bring in a useless player like Jyles and then have Joseph as plan 'B'.

Nice plan.

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10-28-2012, 01:46 AM
  #271
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Oh for crying out loud, we had identical records earlier today. Way to split hairs.
I'm failing to see how that's any better given where both teams were last year.

Tillman made some moderate tweaks to a team (the only thing he's ever succeeded at in the CFL) and saw them have their best year in about 5.

... and then he blew it up because his ego got in the way.

Went from beating Calgary in a home playoff team to praying the team can stumble into Calgary for a playoff game they will get whooped in.

In the last two weeks, Ray has played two games better than anything Jyles has ever pumped out in the CFL. He's an elite QB, and he's going to the HOF, and he was given away from sweet **** all. To compound out, when we found out the kicker wasn't anything special... ET gave away our #1 pick to try and fix it and got hosed there too.

“Honestly, I would probably not,” Tillman said. “I would have listened to my wife, who begged me not to make the trade because she talked about the fact that we had just gone 11-7 [in 2011], that we could actually have an off-season where I might be semi-popular in Edmonton for change, and to stay status quo.”

“My belief was to go younger, not to be as good at quarterback, to build a strong nucleus, to be good defensively, to go through some growing pains but for us to play some of our best football in the second half of the season,” Tillman said. “I truly made this deal with a long term view.”


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10-28-2012, 05:24 AM
  #272
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PDO, make life better for yourself and go cheer for RR and the Argos.

We've lost how many games by 1 or 2 points and it sure as heck wasn't due to QB'ing. Missed field goals, fumbles by RB's and quite frankly some shotty D. When you let the likes of Cornish run rouhghshod against you when you missed tackles by being sloppy, I don't see how that falls on the QB.

Last week RR looked like ****, who cares? He doesn't play for us anymore and this week he looked good. A 39 year old Joseph had 2 splendid weeks as well.

The Eskimos contol their own damn destiny and they fail, it falls on the whole team.

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10-28-2012, 06:25 AM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDO View Post
Last year:

Argo's last. Esks 2nd.

This year:

Esks last. Argo's 2nd.


I wonder what changed....

Tillman said it should be his job on the line after week 2.

Hopefully the BOG agrees.
Wow toronto is ahead of us by one whole win and we havent even played this week yet, i wonder why they're so much better then us this year

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10-28-2012, 10:48 AM
  #274
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Esks win today and they're in the playoffs. Win next week as well and they play in Calgary for the semi.

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10-28-2012, 10:51 AM
  #275
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Originally Posted by PDO View Post
I'm failing to see how that's any better given where both teams were last year.

Tillman made some moderate tweaks to a team (the only thing he's ever succeeded at in the CFL) and saw them have their best year in about 5.

... and then he blew it up because his ego got in the way.

Went from beating Calgary in a home playoff team to praying the team can stumble into Calgary for a playoff game they will get whooped in.

In the last two weeks, Ray has played two games better than anything Jyles has ever pumped out in the CFL. He's an elite QB, and he's going to the HOF, and he was given away from sweet **** all. To compound out, when we found out the kicker wasn't anything special... ET gave away our #1 pick to try and fix it and got hosed there too.

“Honestly, I would probably not,” Tillman said. “I would have listened to my wife, who begged me not to make the trade because she talked about the fact that we had just gone 11-7 [in 2011], that we could actually have an off-season where I might be semi-popular in Edmonton for change, and to stay status quo.”

“My belief was to go younger, not to be as good at quarterback, to build a strong nucleus, to be good defensively, to go through some growing pains but for us to play some of our best football in the second half of the season,” Tillman said. “I truly made this deal with a long term view.”
The last quote is interesting...so Tillman really thought that giving Ray away for nothing and acquiring Jyles was going to be a critical component in keeping this team competitive?



So the team ends up with a year wasted on Jyles with little to no development time for a prospect they don't have and didn't acquire, basically no return at all for an HOF QB and this team is supposed to be better long term?

Is that just wacky enough to work?

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