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How is the new fighting rule working?

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10-25-2012, 02:57 AM
  #1
Borjes Baumingdyk
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How is the new fighting rule working?

So we've hit the 119 game mark in the OHL and fights are down by 32.1 % as opposed to last year. Now if a player wallpapers another cleanly and has to respond for the clean hit, it will not count against his fight totals. This being said almost 27 per cent of all fights have involved an instigator penalty this season, this would indicate that Branch and the "O" are serious about curtailing this epidemic of answering clean bodychecks. So now we are starting to see that this can be done effectively, so when should the other leagues decide to implement this system and should the AHL and NHL consider to adopt this philosophy?

let's discuss....and please keep it clean and flame retarded.
thanks

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10-26-2012, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SmythesMinions View Post
So we've hit the 119 game mark in the OHL and fights are down by 32.1 % as opposed to last year. Now if a player wallpapers another cleanly and has to respond for the clean hit, it will not count against his fight totals. This being said almost 27 per cent of all fights have involved an instigator penalty this season, this would indicate that Branch and the "O" are serious about curtailing this epidemic of answering clean bodychecks. So now we are starting to see that this can be done effectively, so when should the other leagues decide to implement this system and should the AHL and NHL consider to adopt this philosophy?

let's discuss....and please keep it clean and flame retarded.
thanks
It has been good and bad.The good is that the drop the gloves staged fights are down.I never did like them. The bad is when you have a player who head shots another player.Then as you expect another player for the head shot player's team comes in for the fight which I do respect them for sticking up for his team mate.The bad is he gets the instigator and the player who head shot the player is then exempt from the fight charged against them.The true instigator is the player who caused the head shot,not the player sticking up for his team mate.No head shot,no fight,you throw a head shot,you better expect a fight.Now to change the rule,If a player receives more than a 2 min penalty such as 5min,or game or several games,then yes the player who received the penalty along with the player who stuck up for his team mate,would then BOTH be hit with a fight under the rule.As it is now,the head shot player receives only what is assessed and no fight.

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10-26-2012, 09:24 PM
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I think the effectiveness of the rule is dependent on how you look at it. The rule has reduced the "staged" fights, if you wish to call them that, but it has created more scrums after the whistle. Guys trying to goad each other into dropping the gloves. While fighting totals are down, that doesn't necessarily make for a better product. I would rather see two guys push, shove, and drop them, rather than push, shove, and slash each other. I have seen many guys grab on and wrestle around with the sticks until the linesmen separate them. That shouldn't be needed. Drop the gloves and move on.

Yes, the staged fights are reduced, but not every "staged" fight is done for no reason at all. I've said this before and I'll say it again; not every "staged" fight has no point. I've personally seen fights that have to do with the professional ranks. There could also be plenty of emotion involved, which carries over into a following period. That's not a pointless fight.

While the totals are down, you're still getting injuries and cheap shots. I can understand why the league went down to 10 fights, but perhaps a 15-fight rule would be more easily managed. Instead, with the 10-fight rule, you're getting guys who are hesitant about jumping into a situation to defend someone, or themselves. That shouldn't be.

One way the league could have gone is listen to how the players are discussing fights before they happen. If it's clear there's a reason for a fight, such as a bad hit or something from a previous game, 5 each and that's it. However, if they say "feel like going?" or something similar, give 'em 5/GM each, like they do in the pre-season.

The league has taken a very strict, steep stance on the whole situation and, while I respect the reasons for it, some leniency to find that happy ground should be allowed.

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10-26-2012, 10:43 PM
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I'm perfectly fine with the new rule. Fights don't do anything for me and lately I've started to wonder why we allow it at all, especially in a league that has 20 year old players competing against 15 year old players (at least in the cases of Ekblad and McDavid). I think the WJC is fantastic and there is no fighting - I think if you punish the headshots and stickwork as well you can cut it out without the need for fighting.

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10-27-2012, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
I'm perfectly fine with the new rule. Fights don't do anything for me and lately I've started to wonder why we allow it at all, especially in a league that has 20 year old players competing against 15 year old players (at least in the cases of Ekblad and McDavid). I think the WJC is fantastic and there is no fighting - I think if you punish the headshots and stickwork as well you can cut it out without the need for fighting.
I think Ekblad could hold his own against some 20-year olds in the league.

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10-27-2012, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 View Post
You take out fighting and you take away half the fans, it's been in hockey since the start, and it should stay it serves it's purpose in this league....take it out and theyll get to the NHL and get the crap kicked out of em.
People always say that we would lose fans, but I see an awful lot of folks at WJC and Olympic Games. Also, people who are entertained by adults fighting minors or even minors fighting one another may want to contemplate what that says about themselves... Hmmm...


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10-27-2012, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 View Post
You take out fighting and you take away half the fans, it's been in hockey since the start, and it should stay it serves it's purpose in this league....take it out and theyll get to the NHL and get the crap kicked out of em.
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
I think Ekblad could hold his own against some 20-year olds in the league.
Probably true. Wouldn't make it right.


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10-27-2012, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
People always say that we would lose fans, but I see an awful lot of folks at WJC and Olympic Games. Also, people who are entertained by adults fighting minors or even minors fighting one another may want to contemplate what that says about themselves... Hmmm...
I said it serves it's purpose, if there's no fighting you have people taking runs at stars and nothing happaning...is that what you want a league full of cheap shots and dirty hits and no response...your comment says something about yourself, there's sports like UFC and football, does hockey really seem so bad when you look at those sports? And like I said its been apart of hockey SINCE THE BEGINING and I hate it when people like you would like to have it out...and comparing this to World juniors and the olympics is just stupid there all Allstar players your going to get sold out games every game with big names...

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10-28-2012, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 View Post
I said it serves it's purpose, if there's no fighting you have people taking runs at stars and nothing happaning...is that what you want a league full of cheap shots and dirty hits and no response...your comment says something about yourself, there's sports like UFC and football, does hockey really seem so bad when you look at those sports? And like I said its been apart of hockey SINCE THE BEGINING and I hate it when people like you would like to have it out...and comparing this to World juniors and the olympics is just stupid there all Allstar players your going to get sold out games every game with big names...
- Branch can take out cheap shots with suspensions. Remember your pal Kassian?

- Football has ZERO fights. When was the last time you saw a full blown fight in a football game? I have had Lions season tickets for the last 14 years and have never seen one.

- UFC? Yeah, not a fan. But even they don't sell tickets for fights between minors, do they?

- I went to a WJC warmup game between Finland and Khazakstan, and was a great hockey game. It was well attended despite the fact that Granlund was a young guy then and there weren't really any stars.

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10-28-2012, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
- Branch can take out cheap shots with suspensions. Remember your pal Kassian?

- Football has ZERO fights. When was the last time you saw a full blown fight in a football game? I have had Lions season tickets for the last 14 years and have never seen one.

- UFC? Yeah, not a fan. But even they don't sell tickets for fights between minors, do they?

- I went to a WJC warmup game between Finland and Khazakstan, and was a great hockey game. It was well attended despite the fact that Granlund was a young guy then and there weren't really any stars.
In football it ain't about the fights it's about the hits. On the news The other day I saw that there was a game of 10/11 year olds and at the end of the game five kids had a concussion and it happens all the time in football. In hockey fight are usually like 20 seconds long and there's no problem with a fight to get the fans and the team in to the game, also protecting your teammates and who cares about getting suspended I'm talking immediately after the cheap shot or dirty hit, Example Let's say this year there was no fighting and Let's say Mcdavid gets a Intentional elbow to the face, you want his teammates to stand there? well if you do there's something wrong with that, that's why need fights.

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10-28-2012, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 View Post
In football it ain't about the fights it's about the hits. On the news The other day I saw that there was a game of 10/11 year olds and at the end of the game five kids had a concussion and it happens all the time in football. In hockey fight are usually like 20 seconds long and there's no problem with a fight to get the fans and the team in to the game, also protecting your teammates and who cares about getting suspended I'm talking immediately after the cheap shot or dirty hit, Example Let's say this year there was no fighting and Let's say Mcdavid gets a Intentional elbow to the face, you want his teammates to stand there? well if you do there's something wrong with that, that's why need fights.
If someone hits Stafford from behind in today's Lions/Seahawks game after the whistle and knocks him out of the game will any of his teammates pull of their helmet and get into bare knuckle boxing match with the guy who did it? No, because they would be suspended for a quarter of the season. They would allow the league to deal with the offending player with a fine/suspension. What a concept. And generally speaking you see less cheap stuff in football than hockey.

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10-28-2012, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
- Branch can take out cheap shots with suspensions. Remember your pal Kassian?

- Football has ZERO fights. When was the last time you saw a full blown fight in a football game? I have had Lions season tickets for the last 14 years and have never seen one.

- UFC? Yeah, not a fan. But even they don't sell tickets for fights between minors, do they?

- I went to a WJC warmup game between Finland and Khazakstan, and was a great hockey game. It was well attended despite the fact that Granlund was a young guy then and there weren't really any stars.
I've seen plenty of fights in junior football. Windsor has a team that I watched dozens of times several years ago. There were many fights in that league, mostly involving several players after a quarter was done. You also see many players push/shove/punch after plays if something cheap was done. The officials just separate them before anything could get going. Please don't tell me football has a ton of hitting, but zero fights. It's a poor example.

As for the WJC, using Finland and Kazahkstan is a questionable comparison. Neither nation is known for their physical play, generally. What about Canada/Russia or Russia/USA? You're very likely to see stuff that could break into a brawl if it wasn't for the potential to be thrown out of the game or tournament.

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10-28-2012, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
If someone hits Stafford from behind in today's Lions/Seahawks game after the whistle and knocks him out of the game will any of his teammates pull of their helmet and get into bare knuckle boxing match with the guy who did it? No, because they would be suspended for a quarter of the season. They would allow the league to deal with the offending player with a fine/suspension. What a concept. And generally speaking you see less cheap stuff in football than hockey.
Sorry but you want Dave Branch to be the police of this league and are going to depend on him for everything,the league wont last long,He could screw up the lord's prayer.Not a Branch fan.Look at his past decisions.He uses these kids as pieces of meat for his benefit.

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10-28-2012, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
I've seen plenty of fights in junior football. Windsor has a team that I watched dozens of times several years ago. There were many fights in that league, mostly involving several players after a quarter was done. You also see many players push/shove/punch after plays if something cheap was done. The officials just separate them before anything could get going. Please don't tell me football has a ton of hitting, but zero fights. It's a poor example.

As for the WJC, using Finland and Kazahkstan is a questionable comparison. Neither nation is known for their physical play, generally. What about Canada/Russia or Russia/USA? You're very likely to see stuff that could break into a brawl if it wasn't for the potential to be thrown out of the game or tournament.
I can't speak to Windsor Junior Football. Only NFL, NCAA, CFL and a little CIS. I can't recall a full blown fist fight. With the possible exception of the aforementioned WJFL (highly acclaimed and watched, no doubt), football does have a ton of hits and zero fights. Send me a link to the fight in this week's NFL or CFL action, would you?

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10-28-2012, 05:13 PM
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Sorry but you want Dave Branch to be the police of this league and are going to depend on him for everything,the league wont last long,He could screw up the lord's prayer.Not a Branch fan.Look at his past decisions.He uses these kids as pieces of meat for his benefit.
Look, I'm not going to defend every Branch decision but the CHL and OHL have grown under his tenure. It has lasted while he's been at the helm. I've said this before elsewhere, but in his tenure:

- Teams have gone from playing in places like the Ray Twinney Recreation Complex (Newmarket) to playing in places like the John Labatt Centre (London), Hershey Centre (Mississauga), Barrie Molson Centre and the WFCU (Windsor).

- Television exposure and average attendance have increased.

- Major Memorial Cup title sponsorship deal.

- Introduction of the top prospects game.

- I would say he's also drastically cut down on fights and headchecks, but you may not see those as positives.

I think the examples above demonstrate that overall, he's been a success.

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10-28-2012, 09:17 PM
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Branch has been a success, but it's tough to defend him as a knee-jerk reaction guy when it comes to changing the rules.

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10-31-2012, 07:57 AM
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It's a terrible decision. Most players can go through their career without having more than one or two fights. Also, how many punches land FLUSH each year? Not many.


Edit - You're comparing hockey to football? Let the kids make their own decisions and drop the gloves. I have watched 20 or so fights (live) over the past two seasons, and I don't think I saw anyone get injured. The worst may have been a small hand injury from punching a helmet. I have evidence that fighting is in the game for a reason, too.


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10-31-2012, 10:40 AM
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It's a terrible decision. Most players can go through their career without having more than one or two fights. Also, how many punches land FLUSH each year? Not many.


Edit - You're comparing hockey to football? Let the kids make their own decisions and drop the gloves. I have watched 20 or so fights (live) over the past two seasons, and I don't think I saw anyone get injured. The worst may have been a small hand injury from punching a helmet. I have evidence that fighting is in the game for a reason, too.
It has been demonstrated that head injuries are not something that one will "see" today. The damage is long-term and will affect the individual well after the fans stop cheering.

I dread the day one of my favorite NFL players, Troy Polamolu indicates he has long-term brain damage but it is coming.

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10-31-2012, 11:32 AM
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It has been demonstrated that head injuries are not something that one will "see" today. The damage is long-term and will affect the individual well after the fans stop cheering.

I dread the day one of my favorite NFL players, Troy Polamolu indicates he has long-term brain damage but it is coming.
That's not from just fighting, though. That's all aspects of the physical game. A clean hit could knock a guy out, giving the guy long-term disadvantages. While fighting doesn't help the cause, it's far from the only factor. As long as there is the ability to get stronger and faster, this situation won't improve in a physical sport.

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10-31-2012, 11:45 AM
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You will never take this stuff out of hockey. There's even a video with NHL players talking about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGHKsvn2TFs

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10-31-2012, 12:19 PM
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That's not from just fighting, though. That's all aspects of the physical game. A clean hit could knock a guy out, giving the guy long-term disadvantages. While fighting doesn't help the cause, it's far from the only factor. As long as there is the ability to get stronger and faster, this situation won't improve in a physical sport.
Agreed.

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10-31-2012, 06:14 PM
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Look, I'm not going to defend every Branch decision but the CHL and OHL have grown under his tenure. It has lasted while he's been at the helm. I've said this before elsewhere, but in his tenure:

- Teams have gone from playing in places like the Ray Twinney Recreation Complex (Newmarket) to playing in places like the John Labatt Centre (London), Hershey Centre (Mississauga), Barrie Molson Centre and the WFCU (Windsor).

- Television exposure and average attendance have increased.

- Major Memorial Cup title sponsorship deal.

- Introduction of the top prospects game.

- I would say he's also drastically cut down on fights and headchecks, but you may not see those as positives.

I think the examples above demonstrate that overall, he's been a success.
Sorry i bit my tongue on this too long
I was personally involved in the JLC construction and help to get it up and running in my previous employment.Please,Mr branch didnt have squat to do with it.Only thing he approved was the move.Whippee

Tv exposure and increase, Tell me how that has helped the teams,Oh yes it helped the OHL fill their pockets with cash with TV contracts but has hurt the teams attendance.More free tickets and promos floating around than ever before.Yes they do share some of the revenues but only after the fat cats in the OHL are paid first.Ask people why they dont go.Can sit home and watch.Plus it has driven the ticket price up and the arena's. Dont go by the game attendance anounced on the oHL sites.They do count the freebies and discounted tickets.

Yes will give him the cup deal

Top prospects game,Oh es,the game last year when he suspended Yakopuv even though he had a letter from his Doctor advising him not play or attend.He wasnt the only player that didnt want to go.The scouts ahve seen all of these prospects a million times before.Oh yes this was for Branch betterment,Not the players.he uses them like pieces of meat so he can feed them to the lions

Head shots and fights,Started long before OHL and Branch started.Other leagues and NHL started first and Branch just followed along.If was so sincere about it and smart, he should have been the first.Sorry fight rule is flawed,read post above.

If you call success putting yourself ahead of the players in his league for your OWN personal gain,then yes in your eyes he is successful.In my eyes NO WAY

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10-31-2012, 07:38 PM
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I've followed the OHA-OHL for 50 years (and most sports) and compared to all other sport commisioners Branch is by far the best!

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10-31-2012, 09:30 PM
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Head shots and fights,Started long before OHL and Branch started.Other leagues and NHL started first and Branch just followed along.If was so sincere about it and smart, he should have been the first.Sorry fight rule is flawed,read post above.
Actually, the OHL had a head checking penalty long before the NHL did, and the OHL is the first league to clamp down on fighting by instituting rules limiting fights in a year.

You can hate Branch all you want - he has his good and bad points, like every other human. But get your facts right if you're going to throw stones.

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11-01-2012, 02:19 AM
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It's a terrible decision. Most players can go through their career without having more than one or two fights. Also, how many punches land FLUSH each year? Not many.


Edit - You're comparing hockey to football? Let the kids make their own decisions and drop the gloves. I have watched 20 or so fights (live) over the past two seasons, and I don't think I saw anyone get injured. The worst may have been a small hand injury from punching a helmet. I have evidence that fighting is in the game for a reason, too.
I think you're missing the point, but you're entitled to your point of view. Nobody injured? I had season's tickets for years and I saw people get injured. Here's one I remember and there are more...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjTkGGOMDIg

Lepkowski basically missed the remainder of the regular season with a concussion, and hasn't been the same since.

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