HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Chicago Blackhawks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Toews, Wirtz, and Bettman

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-06-2012, 04:12 PM
  #201
Martini*
Gods Team
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,786
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
You don't know when to quit

If no one else replies, this nonsense will die...
I will take this as a white flag and consider myself, humblely, mind you, victorious.


Sorry, but I have a hard time knocking a person who is dead, who has done so much for charities thru out the world, and who did what he thought was right and stuck to his standards and didnt budge one inch no matter how trivial it was. The sight of seeing Bill Wirtz booed while his son talked about him after his passing was disgraceful and a black mark to hockey fans in Chicago. Why because he didnt put home games on TV?

Bill Wirtz was a good man who ran his hockey team the way he wanted. I respect that.

Martini* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2012, 04:38 PM
  #202
UsernameWasTaken
Let's Go Blue Jays!
 
UsernameWasTaken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
You don't know when to quit

If no one else replies, this nonsense will die...
Never wrestle with a pig...you both get dirty and the pig likes it

UsernameWasTaken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2012, 08:21 PM
  #203
No Fun Shogun
Global Moderator
34-38-61-10-13
 
No Fun Shogun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Shogunate of Nofunia
Country: Fiji
Posts: 28,648
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martini View Post
I will take this as a white flag and consider myself, humblely, mind you, victorious.
Ah yes, the classic debate trick of spouting nonsense until people get tired of talking with you. Truly, an epic victory.

No Fun Shogun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2012, 08:28 PM
  #204
No Fun Shogun
Global Moderator
34-38-61-10-13
 
No Fun Shogun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Shogunate of Nofunia
Country: Fiji
Posts: 28,648
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
As often as its stated, I doubt the wolves ever outdrew the Hawks. On my phone though, and its possible im wrong.
I believe you're right. I think, at their respective best and worst, the Wolves averaged about 9,500 while the Hawks were in the 12,000s, so even at the bottom of the barrel the Hawks averaged bigger crowds.

That being said, you better believe that the Wolves generated more interest than the Hawks in Chicagoland, largely due to actually being on TV. Not claiming that they were approaching the popularity of other big league teams.... but that just goes to indicate how far the Hawks had really fallen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy View Post
The fans came back because the team was winning, not because the games were magically on TV. The old barn was sold out in the 80's and 90's because it was a good team.
Maybe, maybe not. Remember, the Hawks experienced a meteoric rise in attendance in the very year after Dollar Bill died, in a year when they were starting to get games on TV again and still missed the playoffs (albeit closer to getting in when they were in the previous couple years). I doubt that going from 13th to 10th in the West from the last year with Bill and the first year under Rocky was the difference maker for adding a few extra thousand fans per game.

No Fun Shogun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2012, 08:43 PM
  #205
HawksFan74
Tread Lightly
 
HawksFan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 15,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
I believe you're right. I think, at their respective best and worst, the Wolves averaged about 9,500 while the Hawks were in the 12,000s, so even at the bottom of the barrel the Hawks averaged bigger crowds.

That being said, you better believe that the Wolves generated more interest than the Hawks in Chicagoland, largely due to actually being on TV. Not claiming that they were approaching the popularity of other big league teams.... but that just goes to indicate how far the Hawks had really fallen.



Maybe, maybe not. Remember, the Hawks experienced a meteoric rise in attendance in the very year after Dollar Bill died, in a year when they were starting to get games on TV again and still missed the playoffs (albeit closer to getting in when they were in the previous couple years). I doubt that going from 13th to 10th in the West from the last year with Bill and the first year under Rocky was the difference maker for adding a few extra thousand fans per game.
The Wolves outdrew the Hawks one season in average attendance . I have to find the article. It wasn't a huge number but both were in the 12k range.

HawksFan74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2012, 08:51 PM
  #206
HawksFan74
Tread Lightly
 
HawksFan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 15,632
vCash: 500
The Winter Classic was also perfect timing to gain exposure for the Hawks.

HawksFan74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2012, 09:12 PM
  #207
UsernameWasTaken
Let's Go Blue Jays!
 
UsernameWasTaken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post


The Wolves outdrew the Hawks one season in average attendance . I have to find the article. It wasn't a huge number but both were in the 12k range.
These are the attendance charts I found:

Wolves:
http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendan...h.php?tmi=5237

Blackhawks:
http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendan...h.php?tmi=5218

The Blackhawks were always ahead - but I don't know how accurate the info is - it shows the Hawks' avg. attendance being highest in 08/09, which seems odd to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
The Winter Classic was also perfect timing to gain exposure for the Hawks.
I think a lot of stuff went "right" for the team at the same time...games on t.v., winning more, having Toews/Kane come in as young, marketable players w/ star potential, etc.

UsernameWasTaken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2012, 09:51 PM
  #208
HawksFan74
Tread Lightly
 
HawksFan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 15,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
These are the attendance charts I found:

Wolves:
http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendan...h.php?tmi=5237

Blackhawks:
http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendan...h.php?tmi=5218

The Blackhawks were always ahead - but I don't know how accurate the info is - it shows the Hawks' avg. attendance being highest in 08/09, which seems odd to me.



I think a lot of stuff went "right" for the team at the same time...games on t.v., winning more, having Toews/Kane come in as young, marketable players w/ star potential, etc.
They changed up the configuration of the club level after that year reducing seats. Capacity was less after that.

HawksFan74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2012, 10:43 PM
  #209
UsernameWasTaken
Let's Go Blue Jays!
 
UsernameWasTaken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
They changed up the configuration of the club level after that year reducing seats. Capacity was less after that.
okay...that explains it

did you go to Hawks' games b/w prior to the "rejuvenation"? Are the attendance numbers on the chart way higher than were at the game? for example, the Blue Jays post attendance #s that are not at all reflected by "bodies in seats" by a mile. http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendan...h.php?tmi=5218

UsernameWasTaken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2012, 01:09 AM
  #210
DisgruntledHawkFan
Moderator
 
DisgruntledHawkFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 23,618
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to DisgruntledHawkFan
Ive been to a number of games that were reported to have 13k in attendance that maybe had half that number.

DisgruntledHawkFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2012, 02:45 AM
  #211
HawksFan74
Tread Lightly
 
HawksFan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 15,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
okay...that explains it

did you go to Hawks' games b/w prior to the "rejuvenation"? Are the attendance numbers on the chart way higher than were at the game? for example, the Blue Jays post attendance #s that are not at all reflected by "bodies in seats" by a mile. http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendan...h.php?tmi=5218
I had season tix then but I couldn't tell you. I know it was a ghost town many nights in there so who knows. Maybe they report tickets sold, ect.

HawksFan74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2012, 05:38 AM
  #212
Sir Psycho T
More Cowbell!
 
Sir Psycho T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 3,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Ive been to a number of games that were reported to have 13k in attendance that maybe had half that number.
Kind of like the Red Sox sellout streak. Yes I am sure the Red Sox sold out all their games this year as they finished last in the AL East and traded almost all their talented players.

Sir Psycho T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2012, 05:43 AM
  #213
Sir Psycho T
More Cowbell!
 
Sir Psycho T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 3,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post


The Wolves outdrew the Hawks one season in average attendance . I have to find the article. It wasn't a huge number but both were in the 12k range.
It wasn't an entire season but it was for like a month that the Wovles outdrew the Hawks in 2004.

The article was in Slam magazine.

Sir Psycho T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2012, 10:00 AM
  #214
HawksFan74
Tread Lightly
 
HawksFan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 15,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
It wasn't an entire season but it was for like a month that the Wovles outdrew the Hawks in 2004.

The article was in Slam magazine.
I think you're right.

HawksFan74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2012, 12:02 PM
  #215
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 24,502
vCash: 500


even in Germany we heard that the AHL team has had a bigger attendance for a few games than the NHL team

Bubba88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2012, 04:02 PM
  #216
BlackhawkPaul
Indian Head Nation
 
BlackhawkPaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 88
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
I gave them up last year.
My wife and I miss you.
You really are a number now.

BlackhawkPaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2012, 11:36 AM
  #217
Retail1LO
Registered User
 
Retail1LO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 5,240
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Retail1LO Send a message via AIM to Retail1LO Send a message via MSN to Retail1LO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cullksinikers View Post
My favorite quote is from Paul Bissonnette.



True story. Owners want to pay less and get the same amount. Greedy businessmen down to the core.

Yeah...shame on guys who spend 10's of millions annually to hockey players to want to see a return on their investment and make a profit! It's funny how in this industry, anyone who wants to make money is greedy. The players ALL make money. Every single one of them profits every year whether they play well or stink the joint up. Owners only make money if and when their players are actually earning their guaranteed contracts. When the teams suck, often attendance and concessions suck. Do the players eat it when that happens? No...they make the same amount. Most of the owners don't want to pay less and get the same amount. They want to pay less so they can actually make money.

Do you think they got into a position to even own a hockey club by running businesses that don't make money?

I would love to see and hear what all they NHLPA sympathizers would be doing and saying if it were them running an NHL club that was losing money. I'd love to know what THEY'D do. If teams aren't making money they're going to fold. Period. And that is NOT in the best interest of ANY hockey player. And contrary to popular belief, there is NOT a line of eager owners around North America waiting with open arms for the chance to lose 10's of millions of dollars in short order.

The NHL or any other sports league isn't feasible in the long run unless it's a profitable proposition. In the face of rising costs NOT related to player salaries (which the player seem utterly oblivious to) in addition to the actual player costs...there have GOT to be measures put in place to ensure profitability. It's an absolute must. Period the end. Every other business has such measures...this league needs them too.

Retail1LO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2012, 03:08 AM
  #218
Fenway
Moderator
 
Fenway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 1,694
vCash: 50
Bill Wirtz is a paradox.

Can we just accept on face value that he respected his father's request that home games should not be televised.

By the same token I can tell you Bill Wirtz made sure the United Center was the most broadcast friendly facility in the NHL for both radio and TV.

I am curious on how Jeremy Jacobs and Rockwell Wirtz get along. Jacobs had the concessions at Chicago Stadium but was shut out of the United Center.

I have heard the story that Reinsdorf demanded Jacobs to be banned from the UC. JR is stuck with Jacobs (SportsService) because of a deal Bill Veeck made with Jacobs in the late 70's.

I can't see Rocky being a hardline owner in this but the way the NHL is set up Bettman only needs 7 owners to approve the way he is handling the lockout.

What is worse is Jacobs has TWO votes as since the 'NHL Board of Governors' owns Phoenix, Jacobs controls the that vote as well as Boston.

Why Jacobs is being the uber hardliner makes no sense as the Bruins are a cash cow and he owns 20% of NESN. Jacobs also controls the concessions in a few NHL rinks and last time I checked an empty seat does not buy a beer and a dog.

Fenway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2012, 03:18 PM
  #219
AceintheSpace*
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 536
vCash: 500
Pretty sure the Hawks led the league in attendance prior to winning the Cup. The Cup just kind of validates the turnaround leading up to it, and as someone from Upstate NY with an outsiders POV, the entire league took notice IMO. Not even just in Chicago, but everywhere, the Hawks went from obscure to a top brand in a matter of a few years. Whoever said meteoric turnaround is spot on. Unparalleled.


Last edited by DisgruntledHawkFan: 10-26-2012 at 05:11 PM.
AceintheSpace* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2012, 02:11 AM
  #220
UsernameWasTaken
Let's Go Blue Jays!
 
UsernameWasTaken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AceintheSpace* View Post
Pretty sure the Hawks led the league in attendance prior to winning the Cup. The Cup just kind of validates the turnaround leading up to it, and as someone from Upstate NY with an outsiders POV, the entire league took notice IMO. Not even just in Chicago, but everywhere, the Hawks went from obscure to a top brand in a matter of a few years. Whoever said meteoric turnaround is spot on. Unparalleled.
Attendance-wise, Chicago had one of the most impressive (and immediate) reversals of fortune that the NHL has seen. They went from being, if not a "bottom feeder", then not much more impressive than that in 07/08 to near the top of the league in 08/09.

Here's the ESPN attendance #s:
07/08: http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2008

08/09 - http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2009

ETA: after playing around w/ the categories on the ESPN site, the Hawks lead the league overall and in home numbers in the categories - the Hawks weren't a huge road draw, though - which isn't totally surprising at that point.

If you look now - the hawks still don't have the biggest road draw - but i think that's a function of the fact their division rivals (not incl. Det) have low attendance - so looking at a team's "road attendance" is pretty useless.


Last edited by UsernameWasTaken: 10-28-2012 at 02:19 AM.
UsernameWasTaken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2012, 02:17 AM
  #221
Chris Hansen
Versteeg's Concubine
 
Chris Hansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,339
vCash: 500
The attendance jump was interesting.

If I recall correctly, attendance had been abysmal as usual during the first few months of the 07/08 season.

I went to a game on December 23rd of that season, and was surprised to see 19,500+ attending a relatively unattractive matchup vs. Edmonton.
After that, I remember multiple sellouts throughout the rest of the season (previously almost unheard of at Blackhawks home games for the longest time, unless Detroit was in town - and even then...).

You could tell something good was brewing, and not just on the ice. 08-09 saw the fanbase really explode in numbers.

Chris Hansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2012, 03:40 AM
  #222
Sir Psycho T
More Cowbell!
 
Sir Psycho T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 3,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
The attendance jump was interesting.

If I recall correctly, attendance had been abysmal as usual during the first few months of the 07/08 season.

I went to a game on December 23rd of that season, and was surprised to see 19,500+ attending a relatively unattractive matchup vs. Edmonton.
After that, I remember multiple sellouts throughout the rest of the season (previously almost unheard of at Blackhawks home games for the longest time, unless Detroit was in town - and even then...).

You could tell something good was brewing, and not just on the ice. 08-09 saw the fanbase really explode in numbers.
I remember as well. It wasn't just attendance but an overall buzz in the city. People could see this team has a future and a plan for the future and gone where the days of selling off our best and most beloeved players for a bunch of scrubs who would never amount to anything. People where talking about the Hawks again and with excitement and not the same, did you hear we traded our All-Star for 2 4th liners and a prospect who was ranked 13th in their pool.

Sir Psycho T is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:12 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.