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P. Kane for OEL

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10-28-2012, 12:40 AM
  #126
Chris Hansen
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Ryan is about on par, but scores more goals. Eberle was the 3rd most productive player in the league in terms of points per ice time, behind you guessed it, Crosby and Malkin.

Koivu is a 70 point player, just like Kane, and a terrific defensive player.

Backes is the #1 forward on a BETTER team than Chicago.

Staal is a 60-70 point forward with Selke caliber defense.

The overrating of Kane is absolutely insane. And for what?? One good season?
Yep, Eberle has one good season so he must be better than Kane. Sort of funny you bring up the "one good season" route at the end of your own post I do like it when people contradict themselves.

Ryan and Koivu have scored 70 points once in their careers.

You can't seriously think your Backes argument is a good one. St. Louis had trouble scoring goals as a team. They lack star talent, and get the job done with depth instead. Yeah, they are a better team than Chicago. They are, however, not (even close to) a better offensive team than the Blackhawks. Backes has eclipsed 60 points once in his career, and his best season statistically has him with less points than Kane in his worst. Lol. Stop.

Yeah, call me when Staal actually puts up 60-70 points. His career high is 50
Yeah yeah, he was playing behind Crosby and Malkin. Not like he averaged more than 20 minutes of TOI per game for the last several years or anything.

Some really weak stuff you're offering up here.

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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Kesler struggled with injuries this season. Before that, 70+ point player. Like Kane. Difference is Kesler did it while winning a Selke.

How in the world is Kane better than this? How in the world? Just because he looks more skilled with the puck, it doesn't mean he's a better player.
This is so entertaining
Kane dealt with an injury all year. I cited this, and you responded "Every player deals with injuries."

But you're allowed to use it as an excuse for Kesler. Ah, that's fair.

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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Kane had one good season. ONE. It's not what have you done for me lately. Kane has not been a consistent producer, and doesn't bring anything else to the table other than production. Forgive me for not buying into him being a superstar.
One good season? I'd say he's had one superstar season (I never called him that, so not sure where you're getting the word from). Then 3 other well above-average seasons - 70 point players do not grow on trees, and Kane has been one for 4 out of the 5 seasons of his career.

Sounds like consistent production to me.

All of your arguments are riddled with contradictions, Mandy. I think I'm done wasting my time here... either I'm falling for some poorly-conceived bait or you just don't know how to argue your points very well/don't have much of a point at all. Either way.

In the end, Kane has greater value than OEL and I will leave it at that. The rest of this has just been a big, rather pointless sidetrack.


Last edited by ColePens: 10-28-2012 at 12:58 AM.
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Old
10-28-2012, 12:57 AM
  #127
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Let's please keep things civil around here. Good debate going on....but we need to stay civil.

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10-28-2012, 01:02 AM
  #128
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Apologies for the several separate posts in a row, CP looked pretty obnoxious.

All the talking about how Kane has apparently fallen off an offensive cliff is misguided. He's put up 70 points or more every season of his career except the past one.

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10-28-2012, 01:08 AM
  #129
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I think a lot of people forget about him because how good Toews is. Also having Keith, who I think is a top defender in the league, Hossa, and every other damn good player makes him forgotten.

I agree that some of the posts are a bit much killing his value. I don't believe that at all. I just think Kane is so damn good on Chicago there really is no reason to move him. His age factor and potential alone makes him a keeper.

Inevitably that's what makes this OEL for Kane trade bad. Both teams say no. And for good reasons.

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10-28-2012, 01:10 AM
  #130
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Agreed. Although Phoenix's need for a true dynamic forward may make it at least appealing for them.
I imagine they would rather package Yandle for that forward than Ekman-Larsson, though. 'Course keeping both would be preferable, but you have to give to get.

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10-28-2012, 01:11 AM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Yep, Eberle has one good season so he must be better than Kane. Sort of funny you bring up the "one good season" route at the end of your own post I do like it when people contradict themselves.
Eberle led his team in scoring both his years in the NHL. More than can be said about Kane. Eberle is trending only upwards, the 'one good season' won't be for long.

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Ryan and Koivu have scored 70 points once in their careers.
Ryan has 4 consecutive 30 goal seasons, and has played on much worse teams. Koivu is not better offensively, but certainly much much better defensively and a better all around forward. At any rate, these were meant as comparables more so than clear cut better, as was Backes.

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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
You can't seriously think your Backes argument is a good one. St. Louis had trouble scoring goals as a team. They lack star talent, and get the job done with depth instead. Yeah, they are a better team than Chicago. They are, however, not (even close to) a better offensive team than the Blackhawks. Backes has eclipsed 60 points once in his career, and his best season statistically has him with less points than Kane in his worst. Lol. Stop.
LOL. Bolded is exactly the point. It's not just about offense. Did I say Backes was better offensively? NO. Winning 2-1 >> losing 6-5.

30 goal 60 point player is no slouch offensively either.

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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Yeah, call me when Staal actually puts up 60-70 points. His career high is 50
Yeah yeah, he was playing behind Crosby and Malkin. Not like he averaged more than 20 minutes of TOI per game for the last several years or anything.
Staal produced well over a 60 point pace

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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Some really weak stuff you're offering up here.
And what exactly are you offering up? A couple of 70 point seasons and horrible all around play?

Still waiting for your flawless logic of why Kane is better than Joe Thornton.

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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
This is so entertaining
Kane dealt with an injury all year. I cited this, and you responded "Every player deals with injuries."

But you're allowed to use it as an excuse for Kesler. Ah, that's fair.
I used it because you did

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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
One good season? I'd say he's had one superstar season (I never called him that, so not sure where you're getting the word from). Then 3 other well above-average seasons - 70 point players do not grow on trees, and Kane has been one for 4 out of the 5 seasons of his career.

Sounds like consistent production to me.
Consistently not anywhere near the best in the league. You can't just rank him top 10 or 12 or whatever you did if he never gets near that in scoring. And it's not just about scoring. Hockey is played two ways. If you give up many goals, you won't win. ie St. Louis Blues vs Chicago

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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
All of your arguments are riddled with contradictions, Mandy. I think I'm done wasting my time here... either I'm falling for some poorly-conceived bait or you just don't know how to argue your points very well/don't have much of a point at all. Either way.

In the end, Kane has greater value than OEL and I will leave it at that. The rest of this has just been a big, rather pointless sidetrack.
Contradictions? The only one is Eberle, and Eberle is trending upwards, lead his team in scoring all his years in the NHL. Has Kane even improved at all since entering the league? He is what he is, a 70 point one dimensional winger.

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10-28-2012, 01:16 AM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Agreed. Although Phoenix's need for a true dynamic forward may make it at least appealing for them.
I imagine they would rather package Yandle for that forward than Ekman-Larsson, though. 'Course keeping both would be preferable, but you have to give to get.
I wonder if they were in for Staal at the draft. Staal for Yandle could have been something (if Staal re-signed). They would have been a great addition to that team.

I agree with you that Yandle will be on the move if Tippett can't get them producing goals w/ his system.

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10-28-2012, 01:19 AM
  #133
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Ugh, Mandy, I thought I made it clear we were done, bud.
(To your credit, leaving Thornton off was an oversight of mine. Think I accidentally deleted him, because he's certainly ahead of Kane. With that said, we really are done.)

CP, I imagine they were. Wasn't it rumored Yandle was being shopped "for the right price" at last year's deadline? Doubtless they were looking for that impact forward even then.

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Old
10-28-2012, 01:24 AM
  #134
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OEL does a lot more for Phoenix than Kane would. I really can't think of a less Tippett player they could be trading for.

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10-28-2012, 01:25 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
OEL does a lot more for Phoenix than Kane would. I really can't think of a less Tippett player they could be trading for.
I would not go there at all. Kane's speed in that system.....

You have to remember, just because a guy isn't physical doesn't mean he can't dominate in that system. See Ray Whitney. Guy looked rejuvenated out there.

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10-28-2012, 01:29 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
OEL does a lot more for Phoenix than Kane would. I really can't think of a less Tippett player they could be trading for.
Meh. Don't overrate the impact of systems. Phoenix sorely needs that dynamic, game-changing forward. Kane would certainly do a lot for them.

With that said, the Yotes don't seem eager to give up OEL for him, and I can say for sure the Hawks equivalently wouldn't be too excited about the deal either.

It's tough to trade great players, really. Simple as that.

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10-28-2012, 01:40 AM
  #137
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Kane's game would work fine here.

Regarding moving Yandle for a forward though, It's possible it does as much harm as it does good. Yandle is such a huge part of the transition offense. I'd have to be 100% confident OEL is ready to take that role.

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10-28-2012, 01:40 AM
  #138
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This thread has taken a turn for the bizarre. Why is there a need to bash either player? Both are excellent players. Neither organization has any need to move either, and neither organization should have any desire to do so. Both franchises will simply be quite pleased to hang onto their known commodities that they are quite happy with. I can't imagine the Hawks would consider moving Kane for OEL. I can't imagine the Coyotes would consider moving OEL for Kane. It doesn't mean that either player sucks, is overrated or underrated, or that either fanbase is stupid, ignorant, or dillusional. It just means none of us are particularly interested in ****ing with a perfectly good thing. Their guy works for them and our guy works for us. Why screw with that?

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10-28-2012, 01:47 AM
  #139
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To be honest, rt, it was mostly Kane-bashing. I'm not sure anything particularly negative about OEL was said.
Not that that technical stuff matters, really. I agree with your post.

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10-28-2012, 01:59 AM
  #140
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I would do this if I was Phoenix. Kane brings that star factor to the Coyotes that they desperately need, for offence and for marketing.

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10-28-2012, 02:05 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by MapleLeafs9 View Post
I would do this if I was Phoenix. Kane brings that star factor to the Coyotes that they desperately need, for offence and for marketing.
Give OEL another season. Both players have strikingly aesthetically pleasing games.

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10-28-2012, 02:11 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
To be honest, rt, it was mostly Kane-bashing. I'm not sure anything particularly negative about OEL was said.
Not that that technical stuff matters, really. I agree with your post.
As hyper sensitive as it may seem I do take mild offense to OEL being described as incredibly overrated. That, I honestly feel comes more from being a person who deeply appreciates the game of hockey than merely being a Coyotes fan. I don't blame folks who don't watch the Phoenix Coyotes, but OEL is a special player and soon enough it will be realized by all.

I should also mention that Kane is great. In London, for the USA, and as a Hawk. One of the more particularly enjoyable players to actually watch operate on ice. A breathtaking, edge of the seat kind of game.


Last edited by rt: 10-28-2012 at 03:59 AM.
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10-28-2012, 04:02 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by MapleLeafs9 View Post
I would do this if I was Phoenix. Kane brings that star factor to the Coyotes that they desperately need, for offense and for marketing.
???
Oliver is a star in his own right! And as for marketing, a new owner is needed more than any 'star' attraction! At least here in AZ. I can argue about Kane being be a better marketing tool than Doan.

Quote:
You have to remember, just because a guy isn't physical doesn't mean he can't dominate in that system. See Ray Whitney. Guy looked rejuvenated out there.
yes, Kane would be an adequate replacement for Whitney! As long as he plays on Hanzal's line. Just don't like the idea of trading Ekman-Larsson for him.

Quote:
I wonder if they were in for Staal at the draft. Staal for Yandle could have been something (if Staal re-signed). They would have been a great addition to that team.
I think they were (don't really know for sure, just speculating) - or at least talking and believe what the Pens got for Staal was discussed too.

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10-28-2012, 08:46 AM
  #144
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HF Boards once again proves that legitimate threads/proposals get mindlessly derailed constantly.

Kane is an amazing offensive player.

OEL is an amazing defensive player.

Discuss the swap. That's it

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10-28-2012, 08:51 AM
  #145
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Number 1 defensemen have greater value than any winger,Now if chigago were to be talking about Toews for OEL there might be something

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10-28-2012, 09:08 AM
  #146
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Number 1 defensemen have greater value than any winger,Now if chigago were to be talking about Toews for OEL there might be something
There might be a Bowman or two losing their jobs, that's for sure.

Chicago does not need OEL even half as badly as they need Toews. Plus Toews has more value anyway.

The Kane/OEL swap, as many have said, not terrible value, but there's not enough need for the risk on either team in order to actually pull the trigger.

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10-28-2012, 09:11 AM
  #147
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Too Much Too Soon

Phoenix would have to say no. For a guy like Kane, he got his ring then his big contract and is not, and may never be, mature enough to do it all again. Chicago needs to retool around Toews, Keith and Seabrook as these guys are gamers...Kane is clearly not.

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10-28-2012, 09:16 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
There might be a Bowman or two losing their jobs, that's for sure.

Chicago does not need OEL even half as badly as they need Toews. Plus Toews has more value anyway.

The Kane/OEL swap, as many have said, not terrible value, but there's not enough need for the risk on either team in order to actually pull the trigger.
Yep this is true ,but as far as the orginal proposal ,as good as Kane is. You dont trade a number 1 defender, that we can all see OEL turning into right before our eyes for him

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10-28-2012, 01:01 PM
  #149
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Maybe it's just me, but if I'm Phoenix, I want a #1C in return for Yandle or OEL.

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10-28-2012, 01:31 PM
  #150
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How would Phoenix pay for Kane?

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