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Blinkage, Linkage & Stinkage (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XVII

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Old
10-28-2012, 08:39 AM
  #126
Confucius
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Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
As much of a hockey fan as I am I think that cops and firefighters do more for us than pro athletes. These emergency professions have more of my respect than whiney millionaires.
So why don't you spend your money on them? Donate the money you would have spent on hockey, to the firemen's fund or Policeman's fund. My bet you won't, even though they deserve it more, what's the matter with you?

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10-28-2012, 08:52 AM
  #127
Mike Jones
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
So why don't you spend your money on them? Donate the money you would have spent on hockey, to the firemen's fund or Policeman's fund. My bet you won't, even though they deserve it more, what's the matter with you?
I do donate to their causes. What's so funny?

Edit: And thanks for the idea. Now I know where I can send the money I used to spend on NHL stuff.

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Old
10-28-2012, 08:59 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
I do donate to their causes. What's so funny?

Edit: And thanks for the idea. Now I know where I can send the money I used to spend on NHL stuff.
Good for you. out of curiosity is it 100 a month or more. More people should do that, support Police and firemen screw the athletes.

Edit: It was funny because I don't believe you will spend your hockey money on the firemen and cops but if you do, congrats.

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10-28-2012, 09:04 AM
  #129
Mike Jones
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Edit: It was funny because I don't believe you will spend your hockey money on the firemen and cops but if you do, congrats.
I must throw off a vibe or something.

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Old
10-28-2012, 09:31 AM
  #130
Confucius
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Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
I must throw off a vibe or something.
No, it's just that it's obvious the Police and Firemen are more important to society than athletes, yet we don't give them nearly as much. If you do you are the rare exception. So I was just going with the odds. Peace.

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10-28-2012, 09:40 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
No, it's just that it's obvious the Police and Firemen are more important to society than athletes, yet we don't give them nearly as much. If you do you are the rare exception. So I was just going with the odds. Peace.
I agree with everything here. It's always bothered me (And bothers me more since this lockout and the players' moronic tweets) that we pay athletes like NHL hockey players far more than emergency workers, teachers, etc. Something is wrong when that happens.

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10-28-2012, 09:56 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
No, it's just that it's obvious the Police and Firemen are more important to society than athletes, yet we don't give them nearly as much. If you do you are the rare exception. So I was just going with the odds. Peace.
It's simple supply and demand. There are millions of people that are capable of being police and fire fighters, but only around 600 people are capable of doing what NHLers do. We pay the rare talents in this system.

It leads to some inequities, but it is what it is.

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10-28-2012, 09:59 AM
  #133
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Whats the use to negotiate a linkage if you get it last year of the cba? Isnt that pretty much useless..
Not really when each year gets better for the league.

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10-28-2012, 10:01 AM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
So why don't you spend your money on them? Donate the money you would have spent on hockey, to the firemen's fund or Policeman's fund. My bet you won't, even though they deserve it more, what's the matter with you?
Do you think any of the players who have been tweeting about their hard work and sacrifice would trade places with any of these fireman or policemen?

Do you think they would trade places with any office wage slave? Do they really think they work harder and are more deserving than a farmer or a restaurant or other small business owner who works hard but whose financial payoff is uncertain?

How about AHL players who have probably worked just as hard and in some cases have the same level of skill as a 4th line player but never got the chance to play in the NHL for one reason or another ? Just one season with an NHL pay cheque for these guys is the jackpot compared to the AHL

Unfortunately for them it is just this divorce from reality which, along with their sense of entitlement that makes them so easily led down the garden path.

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10-28-2012, 10:07 AM
  #135
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Fehr is rounding up the players as we speak near the edge of the cliff, he is probobly whispering to his brother "this is easy, these guys beleive anything we say". Goodenow pushed these guys over the cliff in 04 and now the players climbed back to the top of the mountain and ready for another plunge.

The NHL players for whatever reason seem so out of touch.....they take on these stupid battles everyone knows they can't win but yet it's like watching a re-run on tv. Everybody knows the outcome.....except the players.

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10-28-2012, 10:09 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
It's simple supply and demand. There are millions of people that are capable of being police and fire fighters, but only around 600 people are capable of doing what NHLers do. We pay the rare talents in this system.

It leads to some inequities, but it is what it is.
It is this sense of entitlement that is so off putting.

Hockey players are paid too much. And all their money comes from the fans.

It is just now that we're seeing from all their interviews and tweets just how arrogant and out of touch some of these players are.

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10-28-2012, 10:10 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by JAX View Post
Fehr is rounding up the players as we speak near the edge of the cliff, he is probobly whispering to his brother "this is easy, these guys beleive anything we say". Goodenow pushed these guys over the cliff in 04 and now the players climbed back to the top of the mountain and ready for another plunge.

The NHL players for whatever reason seem so out of touch.....they take on these stupid battles everyone knows they can't win but yet it's like watching a re-run on tv. Everybody knows the outcome.....except the players.
Sad, but true...

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Old
10-28-2012, 10:17 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
I agree with everything here. It's always bothered me (And bothers me more since this lockout and the players' moronic tweets) that we pay athletes like NHL hockey players far more than emergency workers, teachers, etc. Something is wrong when that happens.
When emergency workers, teachers, etc. start generating $3.3B in revenue every year....I'm sure their salaries will go up.

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Old
10-28-2012, 10:27 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by pepty View Post
Do you think any of the players who have been tweeting about their hard work and sacrifice would trade places with any of these fireman or policemen?

Do you think they would trade places with any office wage slave? Do they really think they work harder and are more deserving than a farmer or a restaurant or other small business owner who works hard but whose financial payoff is uncertain?

How about AHL players who have probably worked just as hard and in some cases have the same level of skill as a 4th line player but never got the chance to play in the NHL for one reason or another ? Just one season with an NHL pay cheque for these guys is the jackpot compared to the AHL

Unfortunately for them it is just this divorce from reality which, along with their sense of entitlement that makes them so easily led down the garden path.
Would a CEO trade places with a crossing guard? What's your point?

They have a unique skill, one that helps businessmen generate a lot of money. Therefore...they are paid accordingly to generate that revenue for the businessman.

No different than actors...unique skills...make others money...get paid accordingly.

Any of those professions you mentioned....if they had the ability to generate millions of dollars in revenues for an employer, land owner, business owner, etc. they could demand similar compensation to other people that generate millions of dollars in revenue.

Porn stars can make millions of dollars. If you try underpaying them they won't be happy.....I guess that is their "sense of entitlement" and "divorce from reality" eh?

EVERYONE can do what they do.....

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10-28-2012, 10:31 AM
  #140
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It's funny to see teachers, cops and firemen used as an argument against the players' stance. Their feelings, argument and labor negotiations are all utilized by the unions of those professions. There is no protection or education system without those employees. Kind of why they are powerful unions. There's no league without the players. I don't understand the hate for players asking for one concession. They aren't asking for "more". They are accepting less, god forbid they determine the pace of their losses.

You don't pay the players any more than you pay a cop. Your ticket money and tax dollars get there eventually, but you pay corrupt owners and corrupt towns first. "Take it or leave it" and "It's my rules" wouldn't fly for one union, why would it fly for another?

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Old
10-28-2012, 10:32 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey93 View Post
When emergency workers, teachers, etc. start generating $3.3B in revenue every year....I'm sure their salaries will go up.
There are people working for companies that make far more than $3.3B dollars a year and salaries usually stay the same.

But not only that, you can be laid off or released from a contract at any time. You salary is never guaranteed. Can an NHL player say that? Sure, they can be "bought out," but that's a pretty nice pay day.

There is absolutely no way the players should be asking for more than a 50/50 share of revenues. No way.

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Old
10-28-2012, 10:34 AM
  #142
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Pay an NHLer a cop's salary so the owners get $3b out of $3.3b? Oooookay?

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10-28-2012, 10:42 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Scoobs View Post

There is absolutely no way the players should be asking for more than a 50/50 share of revenues. No way.
That's an opinion and not a fact. It's all negotiable. There is no reason the cap can't be phased to protect old contracts. The players came in high, like any negotiation, the league can come in and phase it over one or two seasons. Then, like magic, 50%. It's not like the pendulum won't swing to the players in 6 years. The cap will drop again, they'll lose more down the road. Crying that owners won't get 50% until the last year... a little disingenuous.

The owners lowball and negotiations carry on. Players come in high and it's some horrible labor tactic. Just follow the NBA model and cap escrow. Their contracts were protected. The owners will gain in every area.

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Old
10-28-2012, 10:43 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
I think Couture meant to say that we've already lost 26.5 percent of the season but anyway those talented high school dropouts clearly have no understanding of the actual negotiations.

Let's see how anyone how can defend Couture's stupidity.
Geez.....players are greedy, players are arrogant, players are highschool dropouts, players have a sense of entitlement, players have lost touch with reality.

You're on a hockey message board. What do you want? Players to be making $55,000 a year and the league to be no better than an Old Timer's beer league?!?

They are good at what they do, people (US!!) pay to see them play...this makes Owners money, those Owners pay their players what they feel they are worth so the Owner can make more money.

People that bash the player's intellect, education, etc. seem like extremely jealous babies that wish they could be making the money players make.

Johnny Depp dropped out of highschool at the age of 15. He makes about $20M a film. He seems quite intelligent. Shouldn't he be in the same grouping as these NHLers you talk about?

What's funny about Couture is that his Dad is a firefighter and his Mom is a teacher. Those people mentioned in other posts that should get more respect, pay, etc. as they are more important to society. Couture...and most NHLers, I'd wager, have graduated high school.

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Old
10-28-2012, 10:43 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey93 View Post
When emergency workers, teachers, etc. start generating $3.3B in revenue every year....I'm sure their salaries will go up.

A circular argument.

We're great because we earn so much money!

We should earn so much money because we're great!

They are playing in Europe at a fraction of what they make in the NHL. Are they still so great if they make 300,000 rather than 3 or 4 million?

The NHL provides them with a great paycheque plus top venues, charter jets and 5 star hotels, the best trainers and equipment and promotes them as heroes.

Lets see how they do if the NHL is forced to contract and some of these player lose their jobs. Then some of these self important fringe players would get a reality check pretty quick.

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10-28-2012, 10:46 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by ChillyPalmer View Post
Forgive my ignorance, but what are the owner doing to ensure there won't be another lockout in 7 years? Getting 7% more in revenue and slightly more revenue sharing seems like a band-aid.

I remember reading a stat that said the players would have to take below 40 for some teams to even make a profit.
Chilly, I think that this is where much of the disconnect lies.

Who cares about 7 years from now? I am being a little facetious, but lord knows what conditions will exist that far in the future. Exchange rates, economic boom or bust, tv ratings, online revenues...who knows. This is precisely why I think that any talk about the "next CBA" is just a major red herring and distraction to the process. I think the players should shoot for a 10 year deal and get the best they can right now.

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Old
10-28-2012, 10:50 AM
  #147
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Whatever the monetary outcome will be to this potentially long lockout what boils down is this, it does not affect me. Nobody is taking my money, or cutting my services, the owners and players and their families already have enough to live comfortably for the remainder of their lives. How does it affect me when "my" team wins a hockey game anyway? I'm still the same person. From this point forward, there is only one thing that will make the universe better, and for the better good of the game, it would be best to see Bettman ejected from ever managing the business of hockey again.

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10-28-2012, 10:50 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
It's always bothered me (And bothers me more since this lockout and the players' moronic tweets) that we pay athletes like NHL hockey players far more than emergency workers, teachers, etc. Something is wrong when that happens.
I don't see that there's anything wrong - supply and demand - there are a lot more replacement firefighers out there then there are replacement Crosbys.

Now, top-end firefighters, like, say, the guys who can put out a burning oil field, those guys can also make giant piles of money.

 
Old
10-28-2012, 10:54 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Conflicted Habs fan View Post
Whatever the monetary outcome will be to this potentially long lockout what boils down is this, it does not affect me. Nobody is taking my money, or cutting my services, the owners and players and their families already have enough to live comfortably for the remainder of their lives. How does it affect me when "my" team wins a hockey game anyway? I'm still the same person. From this point forward, there is only one thing that will make the universe better, and for the better good of the game, it would be best to see Bettman ejected from ever managing the business of hockey again.
I would love to see Fehr and Bettman both gone, if the entire season is lost...both are morons...

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10-28-2012, 10:57 AM
  #150
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Honestly, at this point, is anyone out there still on the PA's side? Doesn't seem like it.

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