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Keep Burke or not if it was your choice?

View Poll Results: Ye or Na
Yes 155 71.43%
No 62 28.57%
Voters: 217. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-28-2012, 09:40 AM
  #26
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I regretted his hiring in the first place.

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10-28-2012, 09:41 AM
  #27
rumman
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Burke hasn't delivered up till now, why think he will going forward? He sealed his fate when he said a "traditional" rebuild wasn't necessary, well he was completely wrong, and the Leafs IMO, would be a much better team IF he went the "traditional" rebuild route. With the future of this season in doubt, I say time to move on, new GM, new support staff, and time for Dallas to get a shot with the big club.

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10-28-2012, 10:07 AM
  #28
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I don't get it, people wanted a slow rebuild, and other then that first season, Burke has done that, Yet people still expect to be a contender?

Sure, Komisarek was a bad signing, but at the time, it looked like a great pick up because of how Komi was playing, and pretty much EVERYONE was rubbing the Habs fans nose in it.

Some people look at the Beauchemin signing, yet it got us Lupul and Gardiner

The Kessel Trade, did we give up a lot? Sure, but we also got an elite sniper, and those don't come cheap. Also, no one expected us to finish with the 2nd overall pick that year.

The Connolly signing, I think he was forced too, this was a situation where it was ****ed if he did, ****ed if he didn't. People would of tore him a new one had he not done something to the number 1 center role.

The Army signing, I'll admit was about .5 more then the max I would have given him, but it's FA and you overpay. Another signing that looked great based on past play, and if you watched Army when he was healthy, the lone downfall to this was how many injuries he had when he was here.

You look at the roster from 08, and the roster now.... it's a drastic improvement. We also have Rielly, Finn, Kadri, Colborne, Percy, Biggs, Ross all coming up.

Toskala or Reimer?
Blake or Kessel?
Kubina or Phaneuf?
Kaberle or Liles?
Poni or Lupul?
White or Gardiner?
Stempniak or MacArthur?

edit: Reimer one wasn't the best example as he was already in the system

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10-28-2012, 10:09 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumman View Post
Burke hasn't delivered up till now, why think he will going forward? He sealed his fate when he said a "traditional" rebuild wasn't necessary, well he was completely wrong, and the Leafs IMO, would be a much better team IF he went the "traditional" rebuild route. With the future of this season in doubt, I say time to move on, new GM, new support staff, and time for Dallas to get a shot with the big club.
So fire Carlyle 10 games into his reign here?


Last edited by ULF_55: 10-28-2012 at 11:41 AM.
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Old
10-28-2012, 10:17 AM
  #30
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Trades: A- : With his Kessel deal being his bad deal but highest impact, it can be this grade with trades like the Lupe+Gard, Phaneuf,
FA: C : Has signed some bad contracts, but Komisarek was considered a top pair dman, Beauch a good top 4, and has signed a few touted prospect UFAs (Bozak, Gustavsson) so his signings at the time seemed to be good.
Management: B+: Keeping Wilson for that long on this roster was a bad mistake, but he has gotten Carlyle, Allaire and Eakins to stay as well as having a good group making decisions.

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10-28-2012, 10:21 AM
  #31
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He is under contract for another couple years.

Give him his contract and see if he can turn it around.

He said he could do it quicker, but was wrong, but he still is under contract so let him fix his problems within that window.

Gardiner and Lupul was a great trade for the Leafs. Funny thing is he moved a bad UFA signing in Beauchemin for those two. This is his homerun so far here in Toronto.

Really nothing else you can be excited about from his time here that was difficult or took a great GM to accomplish. Drafting high every competent GM would do what he has. Rielly was identified by the Red Line report, so that isn't a stretch. Biggs and Percy are just prospects, nothing special considering they were 1st. rounders. Kadri is still trying to figure it out.

Bottom line drafting is about scouting, not about the GM.

Red Wings get praised because of Datsyuk and Zetterberg, but it was really their scout's work and management's willingness to listen to their scouts. If you are paying scouts you listen to them.

So far scouting hasn't had a positive impact on the Leafs anyway. Perhaps it has on the Marlies, but the goal isn't improving the minor league team it is improving the Leafs.

Burke did finally swallow his stubborn pride and can Wilson, the only issue I have there is that it was much too late to do so. Could have replaced Wilson with Hitch long before Carlyle was available. I realize people liked the style of game Wilson was putting on the ice, even though it had no chance to succeed in the long run. Everyone just kept blaming the players.

Keep Burke until his contract is due, and if he has earned an extension give it to him.

If he hasn't got the Leafs in the playoffs in a 6 year window why in the world would anyone of sound mind give him more time?

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Old
10-28-2012, 10:45 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Dreakmur has done an excellent job proving your lies as lies.

So now I can say the same to you.
"Sam Slick said that the 08 team scored more goals than last year. BUT HE'S WRONG. That means all of his posts are garbage and he's a liar."

Here are the verifiable facts.

The team burke inhereted finished 10 in goals for.
Last years team finished 10th in goals for.

The team Burke inherited finished 30th in goals against.
Last years team finished 29th in goals against.

The team Burke inherited finished 7th last.
Last years team finished 5th last.

Both the Hockey News and HF rate our 2008 prospects higher than our current prospects.

Those are the FACTS!!!!
That's goals for, goals against, wins, and prospects. THE FOUR MOST IMPORTANT STATS FOR A GM!!!!!!

So based on FACTS, Burke has been a TERRIBLE gm. The only way to defend him is to use SPIN instead of accepting those FACTS!!!
Brian Burke is a fraud based on the facts. Everything else is speculation (best prospect pool in decades). His work over the last four years has been abysmal. Fail.

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10-28-2012, 11:03 AM
  #33
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I'd give him a few more years to see this through.

I just wish he went about his business with less bluster. His mouth is his biggest enemy.

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10-28-2012, 11:13 AM
  #34
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I voted yes.


Last edited by Hurt: 10-28-2012 at 11:52 AM.
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10-28-2012, 11:19 AM
  #35
BudMaster17
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Burke took a 08 team that had no future no hope and has turned them into a team with a brighter future.
Patience in this instance will be bliss because the team that he took over was so rotten to the core that no GM would have this team in a better position today.
Has he made mistakes, yes, but he has been as active as possible and when a team is active they are bound to make a few mistakes. But the majority of his body of work has rebuilt this team in a positive way.

Everyone points to the Kessel trade and a few fa signings. But if Burke didn't make that trade and he didn't make those signings are we really that much better of a team? News flash we would not have made the playoffs regardless. "Burke hasn't acquired a number 1 center or a top goalie" how many teams have traded a number 1 c or g? Hasnt happened. You can't bash him for the trades that he hasn't been able to make, expecially if he has been active on the player movement front... He obviously has been trying, but no GM is just going to hand one over.

If you can not see the improvement in the depth on every level of this organization from the minors to management then you must be drinking the 80 proof kool aid.

Where he has made his biggest mistakes is through his big mouth. But it seems he has learned from his first few years in Toronto and is being more selective with what and when his blow hole spews out. I'm not a fan of his big ego and his approach to things but the man has come into the worst senario any GM could walk into and has turned things around, give him 2 more years and this team will be in a position to consistently make the playoffs and begain to prepare itself to push deeper and deeper into the summer.

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Old
10-28-2012, 11:27 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudMaster17 View Post
Burke took a 08 team that had no future no hope and has turned them into a team with a brighter future.
Patience in this instance will be bliss because the team that he took over was so rotten to the core that no GM would have this team in a better position today.
Has he made mistakes, yes, but he has been as active as possible and when a team is active they are bound to make a few mistakes. But the majority of his body of work has rebuilt this team in a positive way.

Everyone points to the Kessel trade and a few fa signings. But if Burke didn't make that trade and he didn't make those signings are we really that much better of a team? News flash we would not have made the playoffs regardless. "Burke hasn't acquired a number 1 center or a top goalie" how many teams have traded a number 1 c or g? Hasnt happened. You can't bash him for the trades that he hasn't been able to make, expecially if he has been active on the player movement front... He obviously has been trying, but no GM is just going to hand one over.

If you can not see the improvement in the depth on every level of this organization from the minors to management then you must be drinking the 80 proof kool aid.

Where he has made his biggest mistakes is through his big mouth. But it seems he has learned from his first few years in Toronto and is being more selective with what and when his blow hole spews out.

I'm not a fan of his big ego and his approach to things but the man has come into the worst senario any GM could walk into and has turned things around, give him 2 more years and this team will be in a position to consistently make the playoffs and begain to prepare itself to push deeper and deeper into the summer.
Yep, he has 2 more years on his contract, and if he continues to ice a lottery team he's failed.

Do you believe Burke is the only GM who has improved his team in the NHL?

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10-28-2012, 11:43 AM
  #37
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10-28-2012, 11:58 AM
  #38
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I'm embarrassed by anyone that supports Burke.

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10-28-2012, 12:02 PM
  #39
BudMaster17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Yep, he has 2 more years on his contract, and if he continues to ice a lottery team he's failed.

Do you believe Burke is the only GM who has improved his team in the NHL?
No he is not the only GM to have improved his team but he did start out with probably the worst team, I can only think of Columbus and the islanders as worse or similar team states as ours, and they have sucked for a longer period and will continue to suck for a longer period of time. If Burke took over the kings 4 years ago everyone would be calling him a genius. But because he took over the pathetic joke that peddle and JFj made us into.....

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10-28-2012, 12:05 PM
  #40
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No he is not the only GM to have improved his team but he did start out with probably the worst team, I can only think of Columbus and the islanders as worse or similar team states as ours, and they have sucked for a longer period and will continue to suck for a longer period of time. If Burke took over the kings 4 years ago everyone would be calling him a genius. But because he took over the pathetic joke that peddle and JFj made us into.....
You do understand in 4 years Burke has yet to finish ahead of a JFJ teem in the standings right?

There's 29 other teams in the NHL - none of them are using the JFJ led Maple Leafs as their benchmark for success. Neither should Burke - neither should you.

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10-28-2012, 12:10 PM
  #41
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You do understand in 4 years Burke has yet to finish ahead of a JFJ teem in the standings right?

There's 29 other teams in the NHL - none of them are using the JFJ led Maple Leafs as their benchmark for success. Neither should Burke - neither should you.
Are you saying that JFJ's most recent team was better then then current team?

Two steps forward sometimes cannot be made without taking a step back.

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10-28-2012, 12:11 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by disgruntleddave View Post
Are we better off now than we were 4 or so years ago?

Like the USA, their president screwed them and set them up for a downward spiral. Now the USA is getting better after slowly coming out of a nose dive - a dive where the biggest loss in altitude happened under the new president.

We were set up to fail miserably. Just like the end of bush's presidency, it was only a matter of time until the impacts started to be felt more directly.

Now we have burke, who has had some missteps, who has seen the ship go down thanks to our past, and has slowly stopped the increase in bleeding and is on the way up.

If you don't think the USA is better off now than 4 years ago, then you will likely see the same with our team. It is a shortsighted view that does not understand what momentum is, and how long it takes to correct it when it's going in the wrong direction.
Great analogy. Now if only more people would realize this.

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10-28-2012, 12:17 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
You do understand in 4 years Burke has yet to finish ahead of a JFJ teem in the standings right?

There's 29 other teams in the NHL - none of them are using the JFJ led Maple Leafs as their benchmark for success. Neither should Burke - neither should you.
No one cares. That JFJ team was such a mess. No prospects and no cap room.

Our prospect pool is much better, and we're looking at about 30 million in cap room going into next summer.

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10-28-2012, 12:22 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by BudMaster17 View Post
Are you saying that JFJ's most recent team was better then then current team?

Two steps forward sometimes cannot be made without taking a step back.
No I'm saying that every JFJ team was better than every BURKE team.

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10-28-2012, 12:22 PM
  #45
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If they are a lottery team again whenever the league resumes then he should be let go. There is no way that it should be an acceptable result by ownership.

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10-28-2012, 12:23 PM
  #46
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For those Leaf fans that wanted a draft rebuild in Toronto, couldn't be more pleased by Burke's body of work that positions the team near the bottom of the NHL standings, and therefore earns the team lottery picks so we can draft high-end talent like Morgan Rielly.

So outside of trading away high picks, a mistake of which he hopefully has learned his lesson from, things are progressing nicely.

Burke's record shows 4 straight bottom 10 overall finishes including bottom 5 in 2 of the past 3 seasons. These are pleasantly (silver lining) unexpected results of the NHL's largest and most expensive management team, and spending to the full capacity of the hard cap ceiling to accomplish for Leaf fans endorsing a true draft rebuild team building strategy to a prosperous future. Other "tanking teams" need to play at the Cap floor and ice rosters intended for high draft pick returns based on talent levels.

"Better the devil you know than the devil you don't", applies here.. If the next Leafs GM ices a more competitive non playoff team like say JFJ did, that actually makes the overall long-term future position worse as it weakens the draft position within team failure. That is not worth the risk and gamble taking now.

Burke has 2 more seasons on his current contract and if he can continue his track record of team achievement similarly, and deliver a couple more top lottery picks in the upcoming seasons ahead in the process of his team building strategy, than he should be given time to fulfill his term. Combine that with the majority of expiring contracts in the upcoming seasons a "clearing of the slate" strategy, ideal starting point for our next GM to begin to build upon, after Burke's term is completed.

So I fully endorse keeping Burke, as long as picks and prospects are not traded during his remaining term and we stay the course.

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10-28-2012, 12:26 PM
  #47
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No one cares. That JFJ team was such a mess. No prospects and no cap room.

Our prospect pool is much better, and we're looking at about 30 million in cap room going into next summer.
I care when Burke supporters use the JFJ years to support their arguments.

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10-28-2012, 12:31 PM
  #48
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No I'm saying that every JFJ team was better than every BURKE team.
That's very short sighted because statically that might be true but JFJ where going now where quick. Burkes teams will exceed All of JFJ teams within a season or two and unlike JFJ teams trend.... Burkes team will be an upward one.

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10-28-2012, 12:32 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Burke has not done a great job here, but I would still keep him around for now (for lack of better options). I wouldn't give him a long term extension until we are a playoff team.
I understand the reasoning. However; wouldn't it be a motion of
non-confidence to bring him down to 2-3 years. Re up for a full
amount of term. if he needs to be gone, just pay him.

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10-28-2012, 12:37 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by BudMaster17 View Post
That's very short sighted because statically that might be true but JFJ where going now where quick. Burkes teams will exceed All of JFJ teams within a season or two and unlike JFJ teams trend.... Burkes team will be an upward one.
When a GM takes his team to 2nd and 5th last overall in two of the past three seasons, bottoming it out, there is really no direction but upward in the future no matter who the GM is in charge.

If Burke was let go and new GM hired what direction would fans expect the team to go through change?

If Burke was released and not replaced, but simply the reigns turned over to the remaining management staff Nonis, Dudley, Poulin etc. what team direction would be expected in the coming years?.

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