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Hamilton Bulldogs [10-15-3] & Wheeling Nailers 2012-2013 2.0

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10-27-2012, 03:13 PM
  #51
domdo345
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Originally Posted by 2 Chainz View Post
Both were underrated pickups made by Gauther that not many people gave him credit for, both are very interesting prospects and their ability to play multiple positions is a huge plus for them.
I do not want to take away credits from Gauthier because I think he DID made some good moves but the trades with amateur prospect are all recommendations from Timmins. Timmins saw a good bunch of hockey from Holland and Bournival, before they were in our organization. Gauthier probably asked Timmins what prospect should we try to get from the Flames. No way Gauthier knew who they were before the trade. GMs are usually way too busy for that.

I realize it is pure speculation but I strongly believe it's Timmins' call on amateur prospects.

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10-27-2012, 03:24 PM
  #52
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Great read!

Agree on most part at the exception of Nash. I think he should be in the top 6 right now over Corbin or Pateryn. Ellis deserve to be on that second pairing with Beaulieu and give Tinordi a guy like St-Denis to mentor him. With Desjardin back the Dogs will be alot better defensively. But i still hate our offense with no good veteran to help the kids.....Stortini and Hagel suck big time and Boyce is useless.....Geoffrion and Palushaj will need to play way better because so far they look like 3rd liner in the AHL.....
On a AHL level, the easy thing is to portrait Nash in a top 6. Was there before, has to be more prepared than most of our rookies. Yet, in a development year, and with the quality that we have, I prefer to see others take those spots. Yet again, like I said, I hope everybody gets their turn, and that's including Nash.

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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
For those who saw a lot of JT Wyman as a Bulldog, how does 23 year old Quailer compare with 23 year old Wyman (09-10)?
It's actually a good example as far as player you look at, find he has everything to be a good hockey player, and for whatever reason, can't put it all together. Though in Wyman's case, he might have finally, with some confidence, found a spot in a bottom 6 role in the NHL. Problem now with that comparison is that I found Wyman more willing to use his body than Quailer except for the protect the puck part. And it's also tough to know what Quailer is all about just yet based on the 1 full year he missed. This is incredibly big and especially for a NCAA player. They already don't play a lot of games, and then you miss a season? Awful. He somewhat came back strong. His goal scoring ability is really questionable though as he looks much more like a passer. Reason why I'd see this guy as a centerman.

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Originally Posted by 2 Chainz View Post
Both were underrated pickups made by Gauther that not many people gave him credit for, both are very interesting prospects and their ability to play multiple positions is a huge plus for them.
Gauthier did have his good moments. And while we have to give him the credit for those trades, I reserve the right to think that from Bournival to Holland, than god to Timmins and Co for their reports. But we should also be careful before calling it winners already. As we speak, what we gave already play in this league....and what we got in return besides those 2 guys....we want to ship it far far away....I always was a big Bournival fan and still is. Do think he does have NHL potential. I still believe it remains to be seen for Holland. I'd like to see more speed, more strenght from Holland if he wants to make it. But at this level, he's surely a fun player to watch that makes us believe we might have something great in our hands. Going back to Gauthier, while asking for his head, I ALSO KEPT saying that you often see the job of a GM AFTER you fired him. But for that to happen....you actually have to fire him. And frankly, after seeing how the management operates now as far as evaluation of players and the whole philosophy, thank god we did. Doesn't mean that he didn't make 1 good trade though....and both of those 2 might be 2 good ones. We are still at the "might" stage though.

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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
I'm happy to hear about Beaulieu, but a little worried about Tinordi. Hopefully he can start getting accustomed soon.
Not sure the worries ESPECIALLY since we had already an idea of how he operates. People were extremely worried after his 1st OHL season. And then were fine after. At worst, he will probably be better just next year. Yet, with what I see, I already find him more at ease in that start of the season in the AHL than he was at the start of the season in his first OHL season. This has to be reassuring. But then, let,s put everything in perspective here. I doubt that this time, like some other times, we went with the BPA here. We clearly went with the needs. Tinordi was never seen as a gamechanging player. He was alreayd seen as a steady stay-at-home tough d-man to play against. But nothing more. There was already tons of question marks as far as his skating and puck skills are concerned. That to me is a lot for a 1st round. Though not the greatest of draft year, there was still something else to do here and we will come up with "We should have drafted him" soon enough. Yet, Tinordi is CLEARLY a guy that might reach the NHL and be very helpful. But not like a go-to-guy. And guys like him, do take some time to develop. So no need to worry just yet. Worry if he doesn't develop in his 2nd year. Tinordi was not chosen so he'd play in the NHL in his 2nd year. Was taken for the safe selection he was, which often means 4 or 5 years before reaching the pros. But while there, should be valuable.

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10-27-2012, 03:33 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Desjardins is the only veteran this team has who's close to the NHL. St-Denis, too. However, St-Denis seems to still struggle in the AHL cause of his size and he doesn't quite have the hockey sense to always win (or quite frequently win) battle with his hockey smarts.
As someone that's seen most of St-Denis's games in the AHL, I'm a huge fan of his at the AHL level. I don't know what his NHL future holds but for the dogs he's been great. Personally I don't think he struggles at all in the AHL, despite being undersized, as he is very smart and great positionally. imo he was one of the top defensemen in the AHL last year.

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Originally Posted by gifted88 View Post
The Bulldogs did look very sluggish in the 1st period.
I thought they looked less slugish then they did the previous game, so I was happy to see some improvement there since I thought they also looked slugish the game before that as well. Hate to see a slugish team as I find them very frustrating to watch so hopefully the Dogs continue to pick it up, as I'm sure having a new coach and so many rookies is going to leave for lots of shaky play over the next couple weeks/months.

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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
It will be interesting to see what Hamilton looks like as a team near the end of the season when these rookies get some experience and settle down.
Very interesting, especially if they add any additional prospects (not that the team needs any more rookies) but out of the guys that need to be signed or already signed, Galchenyuk, Kristo, Walsh, Archambault plus any of the Euro's (Pribyl, Collberg, Nygen, Nystrom), perhaps one or two could end up joining the Dogs at the end of March/early April which would be fun to see depending on how their respective teams due in the playoffs assuming Sarnia, Volts, Dartmouth, etc.. fare.

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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
My thoughts is that NO MATTER WHAT PEOPLE SAY NEGATIVELY ABOUT BEAULIEU, the guy is a NHL talent and will end up playing there. Nobody knows how it will turn out but he is clearly a talent.

2 guys that will need to be more assertive are Quailer and Holland.

I think that what the Habs/Dogs brass failed this summer is adressing their vet situation offensivelu.
I think most people feel Beaulieu will be an NHLer at some point as he's got offensive skills to go with solid physical abilities. It will be interesting to see how it goes for him as the season progresses. I really wanted St-Denis to be his D partner, so i'm glad to see the two together even though they may need to change it around as I'm not sure I would keep together the Tinordi Pateryn pairing, although since both are solid guys in their own end and bring a physical presence, maybe if left together they will find their way. It's too bad they don't have a vet to play alongside each rookie but it will be interesting to see how that works out since you don't often see 5 of 6 defensemen as rookies. Of course it's a development league so you are going to see a fair share of rookies each year but not sure I ever recall seeing 5 of 6 regulars as rookies if that's the way it goes.

I don't think Holland can be more assertive as he looks very skinny, not sure he would be very effective at using his frame as I get the impression he's not very strong. I have been most impressed with him among the rookie forwards, nice set of hands and vision he's got. Quailer though I could see using his size a little more once he gets more comfortable out there, which i don't know how long that will take and I don't think he'll ever be the type that's known for using his size all that well as I find he uses smarts and good mobility over being physical. Will be interesting to see how things go for him as I always had trouble with ranking him as I'm not sure what to make of him. He's got the size, skating, mobility, foot speed, smarts and decent hands but I continue to have a hard time when a big body doesn't use his size well, I guess it just seems wrong even though it doesn't have to since i'd be happy if we got a decent top 9 forward that can chip in secondary scoring just you would think someone that big would take the body at least a little more often.

So far though i've actually be a little surprised with how he's looked, as I feel he's shown some good things so far, as I wasn't sure if the injury problems he's had would impact his transition. With so many rookies in Hamilton already and him missing so much time to injuries, I thought maybe he would be better off back in the NCAA but on the other hand, I don't get to see Northeastern on tv very often (of course they are on tv this weekend since he's not on the team) with the Dogs now I can watch just about every game he plays so it will be interesting to see his progression.

I got to admit, I thought for sure they were going to bring in another vet on D as I felt Nash was shaky in his own end during his rookie season. for reference, in Nash's rookie year if he was a rookie this year at the age he was in his rookie year, he'd still be the 2nd oldest D on the team as Nash will turn 26 at the end of the season so if he was 23 he'd be older then all of Pateryn/Tinordi/Beaulieu/Ellis/Corbin. When the signed Corbin I thought he would be ECHL bound with Stejskal, but I guess we'll see how it works out having all these rookie blueliners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
For those who saw a lot of JT Wyman as a Bulldog, how does 23 year old Quailer compare with 23 year old Wyman (09-10)?
Wyman got in 8 games before his first full season in the AHL, and then he was forced to move from the wing to defense during his rookie season so it's hard to compare as I felt Wyman didn't look very good up front but actually played a solid game on defense as he's an outstanding skating/mobility with good speed and a smart hockey player. Wyman also played 4 years in the NCAA and was hardly ever injured, so with Quailer he's missed so much time that it's also hard to compare.

In the NCAA, both played on bad teams and both were among the top offensive players on the team. I'd say Quailer was better offensively but Wyman was better defensively. Neither though play much of a physical game, although both will use the body it doesn't appear to be a part of their game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Chainz View Post
Both were underrated pickups made by Gauther that not many people gave him credit for, both are very interesting prospects and their ability to play multiple positions is a huge plus for them.
I have been impressed with both so far this year, I don't know what the future holds for him in regards to the NHL, as Holland should have a couple years to try and fill out his frame/get strong so we'll see what happens if he can do that. Either way he's a fun player to watch at least. Bournival is a much safer bet to make it since he works hard in his own end and has a good mix of skill, work ethic and physical abilities.


Last edited by montreal: 10-27-2012 at 03:39 PM.
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10-27-2012, 03:46 PM
  #54
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I don't think Holland can be more assertive as he looks very skinny, not sure he would be very effective at using his frame as I get the impression he's not very strong. I have been most impressed with him among the rookie forwards, nice set of hands and vision he's got. Quailer though I could see using his size a little more once he gets more comfortable out there, which i don't know how long that will take and I don't think he'll ever be the type that's known for using his size all that well as I find he uses smarts and good mobility over being physical. Will be interesting to see how things go for him as I always had trouble with ranking him as I'm not sure what to make of him. He's got the size, skating, mobility, foot speed, smarts and decent hands but I continue to have a hard time when a big body doesn't use his size well, I guess it just seems wrong even though it doesn't have to since i'd be happy if we got a decent top 9 forward that can chip in secondary scoring just you would think someone that big would take the body at least a little more often.

So far though i've actually be a little surprised with how he's looked, as I feel he's shown some good things so far, as I wasn't sure if the injury problems he's had would impact his transition. With so many rookies in Hamilton already and him missing so much time to injuries, I thought maybe he would be better off back in the NCAA but on the other hand, I don't get to see Northeastern on tv very often (of course they are on tv this weekend since he's not on the team) with the Dogs now I can watch just about every game he plays so it will be interesting to see his progression.
It's probably not the right word as far as assertive, but I saw a couple of plays where he just gave up on the play instead of skating harder and be firmer on the puck. Even if you don't compare as far as strength and size, you still need to show some aggressivity and that I wish i see more from Holland as he progresses.

As far as Quailer is concerned, well you do know that we are not surprised to not see him not be that physical. He never was that player, not in the NCAA and still not here. I just wish he gets it and become a little more present. He does have a lot of things. Let's hope he put it all together.

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10-27-2012, 03:53 PM
  #55
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Just finished watching the game, I was really satisfied with the way the Bulldogs played. I think they played a solid game but they were victim of a Marlies team with more experience who capitalized on the few turnovers or mental lapses that the Bulldogs had. Delmas didn't play bad by any mean, the only goals he truly had a chance on was the last one and MAYBE Gardiner's. The veteran group of the team (Blunden, Stortini, Palushaj, Geoffrion, Boyce) have been pretty disappointing so far, Geoffrion's shown some flashes of his offensive talent every now and then but his lack of speed is evident out there and he doesn't look like a guy who can be a difference right now and he doesn't deserve prime minutes on the PP right now with the way he's playing. Palushaj has been the best one of the group in my opinion but that's not really a compliment by any mean, he's still too weak physically to play his game even at this level so he wouldn't have been ready to make the NHL this year if there would have been an NHL season. But it baffles me that these guys would have been fighting for a spot in Montreal when they're so average out there. The rest have been ok but they don't look at all like guys who've been playing in the NHL in the last coupe of years, they take stupid penalties (looking at Blunden and Stortini) or they just look invisible most of the time (Boyce).


I was impressed with the way Beaulieu looked out there, best I've seen him so far out the game of him I've seen in the QMJHL or the WJC. He controlled the PP pretty well and showed he has potential to be a QB in the NHL for the PP. He had a few Brisebois-esque turnovers in his zone where he'd fan on his pass or give a soft one to his d-man but other than that he was solid.

Dumont can make our team next year in my opinion, he's an agitator and he's physical. I'd rather have him than Nokelainen at this point. His size isn't evident out there and he's not afraid to go to the dirty areas like one of his teammate, Brendan Gallagher, who reminded me a lot of a younger Brian Gionta with his grit and his preference to shoot.

Bournival played a good game, made some solid plays in the offensive zone and could've had more points if Gallagher wasn't as snakebitten. He reminds me of a Dominic Moore type of player when he's on the ice, a smart, speedy guy who has a good offensive and also defensive game who won't hurt you when he's playing.

PS: Gardiner is going to be a force in the NHL for years to come sadly for us. I was not impressed by Kadri or Colborne, two guys who looked invisible out there...

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10-27-2012, 04:26 PM
  #56
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I must say i'm impressed by our young D. All showed good potential yesterday, even though 5 of them have not yet 10 games in the AHL under their belt. Many mistakes, sure, but most of the time they did not looked out of their place. Pateryn is getting better. Corbin is surprisingly good. Considering they'll have a year or two together to work out their problems, i'm getting optimist !

And, as some of you already said, I'm very much confused by the play of the supposed vets. Outside of the goal, Blunden, Stort, Hagel and Boyce did just short of nothing to help the rest of the team.

I can't believe Naatinen was out of the line up for these guys. Bad choice, i must say. He's really big, he has talent, and he not yet a bust. If he still has potential, i don't get why they had to put one of the vets in his place instead of trying to get the best out of him while we still can.

Man, that second period was absolute pleasure for the eyes of a Habs fan. I dare hope there's many more to come.

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10-27-2012, 06:04 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Rikiki Bousquet View Post
I must say i'm impressed by our young D. All showed good potential yesterday, even though 5 of them have not yet 10 games in the AHL under their belt. Many mistakes, sure, but most of the time they did not looked out of their place. Pateryn is getting better. Corbin is surprisingly good. Considering they'll have a year or two together to work out their problems, i'm getting optimist !

And, as some of you already said, I'm very much confused by the play of the supposed vets. Outside of the goal, Blunden, Stort, Hagel and Boyce did just short of nothing to help the rest of the team.

I can't believe Naatinen was out of the line up for these guys. Bad choice, i must say. He's really big, he has talent, and he not yet a bust. If he still has potential, i don't get why they had to put one of the vets in his place instead of trying to get the best out of him while we still can.

Man, that second period was absolute pleasure for the eyes of a Habs fan. I dare hope there's many more to come.
They are there to play tough and fight. They're not supposed to be top 6 foward

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10-27-2012, 07:03 PM
  #58
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What I really liked is that the young guys carried the team last night. Marlies best players, other than Gardiner, were AHLers. The clock is ticking for Palushaj (sp) and Geoffrion. The win doesn't matter, what matters is how bournival, gallagher, holland, ellis, tinordi and beaulieu played.


Ps: Someone needs to tell Corbin he cannot cross his skates when playing a 1vs1.

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10-27-2012, 08:07 PM
  #59
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They are there to play tough and fight. They're not supposed to be top 6 foward
They barely do either. In fact I remember Stortini getting pushed around by Marlies in front of his own goalie, didn't do anything.

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10-27-2012, 10:54 PM
  #60
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They barely do either. In fact I remember Stortini getting pushed around by Marlies in front of his own goalie, didn't do anything.
The Bulldogs will have to find a team identity without the benefit of Ian Schultz or Alex Henry this season,at least until Schultz plays himself into shape.The Habs aren't carrying passengers on either team this year,players will get icetime by earning it with solid play only,fighting skill is a pleasant extra attribute apparently.

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10-27-2012, 11:31 PM
  #61
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Lets not forget about coaching here.....We dont know what Gallagher has been told but I assume its shoot shoot shoot.
Which is good. 1 out of 5 goals for a goal scorer are on unexpected shots, catching the goalie asleep. It was how I was taught, and it's true.

Further, shots create rebounds.

I'm sick of the lack of shooters on the Habs, and I have no problem with Gall shooting a lot. Check out Max's shooting numbers.

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10-28-2012, 12:25 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by domdo345 View Post
I do not want to take away credits from Gauthier because I think he DID made some good moves but the trades with amateur prospect are all recommendations from Timmins. Timmins saw a good bunch of hockey from Holland and Bournival, before they were in our organization. Gauthier probably asked Timmins what prospect should we try to get from the Flames. No way Gauthier knew who they were before the trade. GMs are usually way too busy for that.

I realize it is pure speculation but I strongly believe it's Timmins' call on amateur prospects.
Habs brass was high on Bournival at his draft, I've heard Leroux say he would have been our 2nd round pick if we had one.

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10-28-2012, 01:04 AM
  #63
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I watched the game in full today (only caught the end of the third & OT last night) and I think people are really making much ado about nothing re: Tinordi. He looked awkward at times and had one disastrous pinch (that luckily didn't turn into anything at the other end) but really, nothing that can't be chalked up to an adjustment period. I thought Pateryn looked the worse of the pairing by far.

Similarly I don't think Ellis has found his game yet, looks a little tentative out there. I'm looking forward to seeing him come into his own, I think he's a really exciting & underrated prospect.

Delmas was really the difference, in a negative way. Just plain bad. At least 2-3 of those goals he should've had.

Nattinen looked slow and had a tough time handling the puck, but it was only his first game.

Finally I really expected a lot more from Palushaj. For someone with his experience (both AHL & NHL) he really needs to take charge and lead the team. He was virtually invisible last night.

As for the positives, pretty much what everyone has said - the "CHL Line" was awesome. Dumont played great and deserved to be rewarded with the tying goal. As the announcers said, Beaulieu is electric with the puck on his stick, but it's a bit more of an adventure when he doesn't. Reminds me of Subban, I hope he has Subban's dedication to working on what he needs to improve.
Quailer is an extremely interesting prospect, could turn into something of an ace in the hole for us. Very raw, but an extremely projectable frame and the talent seems to be there.

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10-28-2012, 01:37 AM
  #64
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I watched the game in full today (only caught the end of the third & OT last night) and I think people are really making much ado about nothing re: Tinordi. He looked awkward at times and had one disastrous pinch (that luckily didn't turn into anything at the other end) but really, nothing that can't be chalked up to an adjustment period. I thought Pateryn looked the worse of the pairing by far.

Similarly I don't think Ellis has found his game yet, looks a little tentative out there. I'm looking forward to seeing him come into his own, I think he's a really exciting & underrated prospect.

Delmas was really the difference, in a negative way. Just plain bad. At least 2-3 of those goals he should've had.

Nattinen looked slow and had a tough time handling the puck, but it was only his first game.

Finally I really expected a lot more from Palushaj. For someone with his experience (both AHL & NHL) he really needs to take charge and lead the team. He was virtually invisible last night.

As for the positives, pretty much what everyone has said - the "CHL Line" was awesome. Dumont played great and deserved to be rewarded with the tying goal. As the announcers said, Beaulieu is electric with the puck on his stick, but it's a bit more of an adventure when he doesn't. Reminds me of Subban, I hope he has Subban's dedication to working on what he needs to improve.
Quailer is an extremely interesting prospect, could turn into something of an ace in the hole for us. Very raw, but an extremely projectable frame and the talent seems to be there.
Amazing you seen the same game I did,imagine that?

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10-28-2012, 06:45 AM
  #65
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Awesome comments...missed the game, but so good to come here and read about all of your observations, analysis of our prospects...very helpful/entertaining.


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10-28-2012, 09:30 AM
  #66
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10-28-2012, 10:34 AM
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dogsplaybyplay No morning skate for @BulldogsAHL today. Looks like Avtsin, Corbin & Hagel are out, Berger & Nash in. Mayer will start. pic.twitter.com/1xJmxGWM

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10-28-2012, 11:39 AM
  #68
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I know he has only played a couple of games for the Bulldogs this year due to injury, but I haven't been able to catch the games myself.
Can anyone tell me how Morgan Ellis has looked so far?
He seems to have a high offensive upside, does he fit into the Habs' long term plans?

Thanks for your input!

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10-28-2012, 11:50 AM
  #69
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I know he has only played a couple of games for the Bulldogs this year due to injury, but I haven't been able to catch the games myself.
Can anyone tell me how Morgan Ellis has looked so far?
He seems to have a high offensive upside, does he fit into the Habs' long term plans?

Thanks for your input!
He's looked solid so far, I think his skating/foot speed needs improvement but he's been steady in his own end. I don't know if i'd say he has high offensive upside at the pro level but we'll see in time. I'd say for sure he's in the Habs long term plans, a couple seasons in Hamilton and we'll see where he's at.

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10-28-2012, 11:51 AM
  #70
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dogsplaybyplay No morning skate for @BulldogsAHL today. Looks like Avtsin, Corbin & Hagel are out, Berger & Nash in. Mayer will start. pic.twitter.com/1xJmxGWM

Good but Stortini should sit also for Avstin......

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10-28-2012, 11:55 AM
  #71
That
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Originally Posted by lewis black View Post
I know he has only played a couple of games for the Bulldogs this year due to injury, but I haven't been able to catch the games myself.
Can anyone tell me how Morgan Ellis has looked so far?
He seems to have a high offensive upside, does he fit into the Habs' long term plans?

Thanks for your input!
I wouldn't say that Ellis has high offensive upside, but he certainly does has some untapped offensive potential. He has some great offensive tools. He has a hard slapshot, he's very calm and poised with the puck, and he also has an excellent first pass. I think the difference between him becoming a two-way defenceman and a defensive defenceman with some offensive upside would be just how strong he is defensively. He is fantastic defensively and very rarely makes a mistake. He also doesn't take risks offensively, so that will hinder his point production, especially in the NHL.

Now on to how Ellis has looked this year. I thought it his game he was fantastic. Very steady, very poised, and made some good offensive plays. He made some very crisp passing, but he shined the most in his own end. He was very solid. He broke up plays with his stick effectively and had a few takeaway. Ellis' second game (last night) was a bit rougher. He looked pretty fatigued and couldn't keep up with some forwards. He looked poised with the puck, but had a few turnovers in his own zone.

I'd say that Ellis is definitely in the Habs long term plans. We don't have another defenceman like him in our prospect pool, and he's got potential to be a second pairing guy. He probably needs about a year or two in Hamilton before he's ready for the NHL.


Last edited by That: 10-28-2012 at 12:03 PM.
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10-28-2012, 12:02 PM
  #72
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Does anybody know whats the story with avtsin? Has he played yet and if not how come. Hes not even listed as being on the dogs from what I can see. It's about time he plays, its been what, 3 years!! They seem to treat this guy in a funny way, not like other prospects. Surely hes ready to play for the dogs after this lobg.

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10-28-2012, 12:25 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Monaco88 View Post
Good but Stortini should sit also for Avstin......

no way!

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10-28-2012, 12:26 PM
  #74
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Thank you for your in-depth analysis on Ellis.
That's exactly what I was looking for!

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10-28-2012, 12:26 PM
  #75
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no way!
Would be a nice change of pace, at least just to see what Avtsin has left to show.

Stortini has been worse than useless.

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