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The All Purpose Luongo Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

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Old
10-28-2012, 09:09 AM
  #926
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Too funny. You'd think the Leafs were trying to deal for Ryan Kesler, not Roberto Luongo.
Id go for it in a heartbeat.

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10-28-2012, 09:17 AM
  #927
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Do not want to see Frattin in the deal. Bozak, Kadri, Colborne and one of Connolly, Lombardi or Komasirek plus a 2nd and that's it.

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10-28-2012, 09:19 AM
  #928
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Originally Posted by 705techno View Post
I can't even fathom that some posters think the CBC is pro Toronto anti Vancouver.


Have you watched a HNIC Leafs broadcast? Hughson, Simpson and Healy collectively cream over the Nucks and bash anything Toronto does, especially in the rare case that Toronto is winning.

The only HNIC personality that I can think of that is pro TO is Grapes.


Any Luongo deal has to include Hughson going back to the west coast, Ill throw in any Leaf prospect to make that happen. On the phone with Burke right now and he agrees, Hughson has to go.
Their argument is that since they show the Leafs the most they are pro Leafs. They are showing how they simply do not understand (Or want to understand) the issue that the Leafs pay the bills. It's a business decision. That does not make them pro-Leafs at all.

Again, during the 2011' cup run, I could not believe how biased CBC was for the Canucks. Yet you still saw Canuck fans on here claiming CBC hated them and always wanted their opponents in each round to win.

There was a game a few years ago where CBC bowed to pressure and showed Ottawa as it's national game on Saturday. It was a disaster. Worst ratings in a decade for HNIC. (It was a Sens/Devils game).

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10-28-2012, 09:23 AM
  #929
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Their argument is that since they show the Leafs the most they are pro Leafs. They are showing how they simply do not understand (Or want to understand) the issue that the Leafs pay the bills. It's a business decision. That does not make them pro-Leafs at all.

Again, during the 2011' cup run, I could not believe how biased CBC was for the Canucks. Yet you still saw Canuck fans on here claiming CBC hated them and always wanted their opponents in each round to win.

There was a game a few years ago where CBC bowed to pressure and showed Ottawa as it's national game on Saturday. It was a disaster. Worst ratings in a decade for HNIC. (It was a Sens/Devils game).
And what about Luongo? Where do you think he's going? Enough already on the media.

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10-28-2012, 09:26 AM
  #930
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And what about Luongo? Where do you think he's going? Enough already on the media.
I think he's staying in Vancouver for quite awhile still. If the NHL plays this year he stays in Vancouver.

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10-28-2012, 11:57 AM
  #931
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Their argument is that since they show the Leafs the most they are pro Leafs. They are showing how they simply do not understand (Or want to understand) the issue that the Leafs pay the bills. It's a business decision. That does not make them pro-Leafs at all.
But you are ignoring the feedback loop. Beat writers are usually homers because they spend more time with one group of players and management than anyone else and as a result start to share their point of views and values. Most national media is in that boat for the Leafs.

The Canucks generally don't leak anything and are almost always covered by regional media.

In regards to the CBC coverage in 2011 of the Canucks, their "niceness" had to do with the Canucks refusing to do interviews with them after the Burrows character assassination by Ron MacLean. It was an uneasy truce at best with some sucking up. Could you imagine CBC going after a Leafs player the way MacLean went after Burrows? Even Don Cherry was getting uncomfortable about it.

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10-28-2012, 12:16 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
But you are ignoring the feedback loop. Beat writers are usually homers because they spend more time with one group of players and management than anyone else and as a result start to share their point of views and values. Most national media is in that boat for the Leafs.

The Canucks generally don't leak anything and are almost always covered by regional media.

In regards to the CBC coverage in 2011 of the Canucks, their "niceness" had to do with the Canucks refusing to do interviews with them after the Burrows character assassination by Ron MacLean. It was an uneasy truce at best with some sucking up. Could you imagine CBC going after a Leafs player the way MacLean went after Burrows? Even Don Cherry was getting uncomfortable about it.
I don't agree at all. Why do we see so much Leaf criticism then?

TSN didn't even include a single Leaf in their top 96 players list.

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10-28-2012, 12:30 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I don't agree at all. Why do we see so much Leaf criticism then?
TSN didn't even include a single Leaf in their top 96 players list.
I don't know how to put this nicely, so I am saying sorry of the top.

Your team hasn't even made the playoffs in 7 years. You try finding nice things to say. It's hard. Kessel is the only player who may make a top player list and it's hard to judge him off of one season, where he was a top scorer. I mean top 96 players is basically the top 3 players on each team, but some players may have more guys that may have been better for longer.

Lets try to get this back on track here.

Most seem to agree now that Bozak would be included in a deal, IMO this makes Lambardi or Connelly redundant. So stop including both. You don't want to include Frattin, but would preffer Kadri, fine. But I would then like to upgrade the d prospect to Finn.

So Bozak Kadri Finn for Luongo. If you want Raymond fine, if not happy to keep him.

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Old
10-28-2012, 12:38 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I don't agree at all. Why do we see so much Leaf criticism then?

TSN didn't even include a single Leaf in their top 96 players list.

You see criticism because the Leafs are currently a bad team. If they were good, they would get more praise. But make no mistake, their is an underlying bias there to often pander to their biggest audience.


For instance, at the beginning of the rumours for Luongo, McKenzie and Dreger "speculated" that he would be dealt in a soft deal and that there wasn't a market for Lu. Where were they getting their information from? How was it being filtered to them? Certainly not from the Canucks side... Later on, we learn that Gillis demanded a good return, and then both reporters changed their tune to other teams refusing to pay a significant demand. Which meant that they were completely wrong about their initial take, which just so happened to favour a TO perception, and then inferred a negative response by GMs to the actual asking price, which again favours a TO's perception.


This is just one example of the TSN media point of view. Which is why I said it was better to agree to disagree, because many VAN fans have a very different perception of what TSN actually is. Better to leave it alone and talk about Lu only.

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Old
10-28-2012, 12:49 PM
  #935
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So Luongo was interviewed by Global BC & Luongo confirms (yet again) if there is no deal in place he is fine playing in Vancouver again. Loves the city, great organization, respects his teammates...etc

So can we PLEASE stop with the consistent speculation that he might become a locker room distraction?


Some more tidbits from the paper:

Quote:
"At this point in time, I think we all know what the situation is with me, but there are many teams out there that I'll consider for sure."
Quote:
"It has been a bit of up and down in the summer. You hear stuff like everybody else does and you wonder what is going on exactly. I try to not pay too much attention until I get it from the source itself, either from my agent or Mike and haven't been in contact with him too much over the summer and obviously during the lockout I haven't spoken to him at all.

"We're just going to wait and see. I'm getting ready as if I am coming back here for training camp when it's over and if things change we'll take care of that when it comes."

Luongo said he still maintains a residence in Vancouver.

"It's still here, we still have it. It's not on the market. I just want to put it out there, it's not on the market."

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Old
10-28-2012, 12:52 PM
  #936
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Do not want to see Frattin in the deal. Bozak, Kadri, Colborne and one of Connolly, Lombardi or Komasirek plus a 2nd and that's it.
Good start with Kadri and Colborne.

We do not want to touch any of Connolly, Lombardi or Komisarek.

And definitely no to Bozak being the major piece coming back lol.

So thanks, but no thanks.

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Old
10-28-2012, 01:00 PM
  #937
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Do not want to see Frattin in the deal. Bozak, Kadri, Colborne and one of Connolly, Lombardi or Komasirek plus a 2nd and that's it.
That's pretty close, but if you're sending salary then another prospect should be included instead of Bozak,

ex. Connolly, Kadri, Colborne, Finn.

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Old
10-28-2012, 01:09 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
That's pretty close, but if you're sending salary then another prospect should be included instead of Bozak,

ex. Connolly, Kadri, Colborne, Finn.

If the Canucks move off Kulemin, then Frattin is the next piece that makes sense. Otherwise, you're hoping on a RW prospect like Ashton.


Kadri seems to be on the way out, so he is likely to come back in some fashion. He's still a gamble though. But I think he replaces Bozak for them as the latter is currently their 1C.


Frattin + Kadri cover the 2nd/3rd C and 3rd/4th RW positions on the big club. Whatever else is included though, will determine the heart of the deal.

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Old
10-28-2012, 01:15 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Troy and Abed View Post
We do not want to touch any of Connolly, Lombardi or Komisarek.

And definitely no to Bozak being the major piece coming back lol.

So thanks, but no thanks.
Even if Burke did talk Gillis to including any of them in a trade for Luongo at worst case Komisarek is signed until the end of the 2013-2014 season. However Bozak, Lombardi & Connolly are all set to become UFA's after the 2012-2013 season. So Vancouver gets rid of Luongo's contract and takes on a few players with short term deals.

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10-28-2012, 01:27 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Even if Burke did talk Gillis to including any of them in a trade for Luongo at worst case Komisarek is signed until the end of the 2013-2014 season. However Bozak, Lombardi & Connolly are all set to become UFA's after the 2012-2013 season. So Vancouver gets rid of Luongo's contract and takes on a few players with short term deals.
Time after time it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in literally every aspect that Luo's contract is not the albatross people think it to be. 5.33M cap hit for a great-to-elite goalie is incredibly reasonable especially with the out clauses available within 5-6 years Sending some cap back isn't off the table or unfair. However we won't bail out Burke for the crap deals he has made. The player has to be serviceable i.e. Mcarthur or maybe JML.

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10-28-2012, 01:33 PM
  #941
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Chicago might as well add Jonathan Toews as well, eh?
Exactly which one of the Leafs package that you're mocking is Toews comparable to?

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10-28-2012, 01:37 PM
  #942
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Exactly which one of the Leafs package that you're mocking is Toews comparable to?
He thinks Bolland (#3C) and Hjlmarsson (#4-5 Dman) is worth a one od the top 3 defensive centre w/ leadership and offensive skills in he world. Datsuk, Kesler, Toews


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10-28-2012, 01:39 PM
  #943
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Time after time it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in literally every aspect that Luo's contract is not the albatross people think it to be. 5.33M cap hit for a great-to-elite goalie is incredibly reasonable especially with the out clauses available within 5-6 years Sending some cap back isn't off the table or unfair. However we won't bail out Burke for the crap deals he has made. The player has to be serviceable i.e. Mcarthur or maybe JML.
Assuming Luongo finishes playng out his current contract he still has 10 years left. Bozak, Lombadri & Connolly have 1 year left and Komisarek has 2 years left. So forgetting about what Luongo's cap hit might be, the term of his deal still sucks and the Canucks could take on players with a lot less.

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10-28-2012, 01:43 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Assuming Luongo finishes playng out his current contract he still has 10 years left. Bozak, Lombadri & Connolly have 1 year left and Komisarek has 2 years left. So forgetting about what Luongo's cap hit might be, the term of his deal still sucks and the Canucks could take on players with a lot less.
Why would you assume that?

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10-28-2012, 01:48 PM
  #945
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Why would you assume that?
I'm just going by where Luongo's contract currently is with the amount of years left. Right now it's 10 years and even if he plays 7 more which some people think might happen, the Canucks still might take on players with contracts that have 1 or 2 years left. So based on that fact only where is the downside for Vancouver?

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10-28-2012, 01:58 PM
  #946
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Assuming Luongo finishes playng out his current contract he still has 10 years left. Bozak, Lombadri & Connolly have 1 year left and Komisarek has 2 years left. So forgetting about what Luongo's cap hit might be, the term of his deal still sucks and the Canucks could take on players with a lot less.
10 years. Option to trade at 5 and 7 years. A buyout @ 39 is less than 600k cap hit per year, and his NTC falls off. The terms do not suck. At all.

Some salary returning isn't unreasonable, but trying to send players with injury problems that have been plaguing them for years is BS. We are in a win now more and TBH, I would rather take a lesser prospect like Blacker and get a not terrible salary back than get a prospect like Finn and take the crap you are offering.

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10-28-2012, 01:59 PM
  #947
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You see criticism because the Leafs are currently a bad team. If they were good, they would get more praise. But make no mistake, their is an underlying bias there to often pander to their biggest audience.


For instance, at the beginning of the rumours for Luongo, McKenzie and Dreger "speculated" that he would be dealt in a soft deal and that there wasn't a market for Lu. Where were they getting their information from? How was it being filtered to them? Certainly not from the Canucks side... Later on, we learn that Gillis demanded a good return, and then both reporters changed their tune to other teams refusing to pay a significant demand. Which meant that they were completely wrong about their initial take, which just so happened to favour a TO perception, and then inferred a negative response by GMs to the actual asking price, which again favours a TO's perception.


This is just one example of the TSN media point of view. Which is why I said it was better to agree to disagree, because many VAN fans have a very different perception of what TSN actually is. Better to leave it alone and talk about Lu only.
Back when the Leafs were one of the top 4 teams for playoff wins they got the same from the media with some predicting every year they'd miss the playoffs.

Listen to Healey some nights when he excuses the opposition for something while admonishing the Leafs for it - example age of Oiler D - when Leafs were actually younger. Gets a little tiring when the guy on the mic is a guy who is bitter about being turned down for GM.


Last edited by eyeball11: 10-28-2012 at 02:04 PM.
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10-28-2012, 02:01 PM
  #948
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Time after time it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in literally every aspect that Luo's contract is not the albatross people think it to be. 5.33M cap hit for a great-to-elite goalie is incredibly reasonable especially with the out clauses available within 5-6 years Sending some cap back isn't off the table or unfair. However we won't bail out Burke for the crap deals he has made. The player has to be serviceable i.e. Mcarthur or maybe JML.
Wouldn't a CBA be required to determine the "outs"?

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10-28-2012, 02:05 PM
  #949
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
I'm just going by where Luongo's contract currently is with the amount of years left. Right now it's 10 years and even if he plays 7 more which some people think might happen, the Canucks still might take on players with contracts that have 1 or 2 years left. So based on that fact only where is the downside for Vancouver?
If all we're getting for Luongo is some T.O. spare parts or cap dumps, then where is the upside for Vancouver?

If we take a cap dump, then one of your untouchables is coming with it, or no deal.

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10-28-2012, 02:19 PM
  #950
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If all we're getting for Luongo is some T.O. spare parts or cap dumps, then where is the upside for Vancouver?

If we take a cap dump, then one of your untouchables is coming with it, or no deal.
I don't expect Gillis to accept all of those players I mentioned. So let's say Burke just offered him Tim Connolly. Does one player like him still need to include someone like Jake Gardiner or Morgan Reilly? Personally speaking I wouldn't mind having to include other prospects like Jesse Blacker, Kenny Ryan and maybe Carter Ashton if Toronto does include at least one cap dump. So does that sound more fair keeping in mind after the next season Connolly is set to become a UFA. So worst case Connolly is on the Canucks for at least 1 year.

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