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Keep Burke or not if it was your choice?

View Poll Results: Ye or Na
Yes 155 71.43%
No 62 28.57%
Voters: 217. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-28-2012, 01:37 PM
  #51
Pyrophorus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
No I'm saying that every JFJ team was better than every BURKE team.
...and aside from the standings? Did you a positive future with JFJ?

JFJ's best move is more worse than Burke's worst.

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10-28-2012, 01:37 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
I care when Burke supporters use the JFJ years to support their arguments.
You have to to understand where we were and where we are going. History is a component of the present equation and it will also effect future ramifications.

JFJs failure will have relevance on the leafs organization further then what some like you actually think.

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10-28-2012, 01:48 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by BudMaster17 View Post
You have to to understand where we were and where we are going. History is a component of the present equation and it will also effect future ramifications.

JFJs failure will have relevance on the leafs organization further then what some like you actually think.
JFJ directive from MLSE was to make the playoffs and a bottoming out draft rebuild was not permitted as an option.

Has MLSE changed its objectives and company directives when he was replaced by Burke, giving him different standards to be judged by?

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10-28-2012, 01:50 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
You do understand in 4 years Burke has yet to finish ahead of a JFJ teem in the standings right?

There's 29 other teams in the NHL - none of them are using the JFJ led Maple Leafs as their benchmark for success. Neither should Burke - neither should you.
How many of those 29 teams were built from the JFJ led Maple Leafs?

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10-28-2012, 01:50 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
Another useless post coming from the spin doctor himself. You have tried lying and BS'ing at every turn. When you try to present "facts" the way you see them, there are a bunch of us who prove you wrong step of the way.

You tried to say that this team and the 08 team were almost the same age....we proved that there is at least 3 years apart.
You tried to tell us that the 08 team scored more goals and we again, proved you wrong.
You tried to say that the 08 team had more wins when infact they had one less.
You tried on 2 occassions to say Burke was the highest paid manager in all the world in the history of the world when in fact there are 30 more highly played managers.

Your posts are viewed for what they are.....flat out garbage.

You do not know a thing about hockey. If anyone disagrees with your opinion you accuse them on spinning EVERY time, and thats because you have no base to any of your arguments. You are too easy to prove wrong on every subject. You just make stuff up.

You have been proven wrong on every turn. Just give it up. We know you.
this is a post that should actually be deleted, but i just felt like commenting.

this is why Burke should be canned and why the Leafs have been a brutal team for a long time:

to compete in the East this year our shopping list consists of:

1.goaltender
2.center
3.top 6 forwards
4.veteran leadership
5.defense
6.two-way players to help with the PK

^this list is what we are currently missing to to be a competitive team.

i can show you evidence that the leafs finished 25th in the league last year, had a terrible PK for the last 6 years, and prove without a reasonable doubt that they haven't made the playoffs since 2004.

Burke has been with the team since 2008 and it seems we are further away than ever from reaching the playoffs.

It seems to me that Burke tried to do things in his first few years that would make the Leafs rise quicker in the standings, and it's just recently that he's taken a more patient approach.

We can now see the evidence of his drafting and how that actually worked out:

Kadri
Blacker
Ryan
Devane

^we can actually compare our drafting to other teams now. other teams have drafted well and have some of their post '09 players on their permanent roster. we do not. how do any of the above players contribute to the Leafs after their farm and minor hockey training? None of them have major roles with big the club. we're supposed to be patient and wait? BS!!!

you can make the case that Burke is re-building, but i really feel that there's a big question to be asked: How much time does he get, and how good has he done so far? the answer is pretty clear: Many holes when he started and now bigger holes now that he's been in charge for 4 years.

if Burke gets fired in the near future some fans will be surprised, but certainly not shocked.

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10-28-2012, 01:52 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
JFJ directive from MLSE was to make the playoffs and a bottoming out draft rebuild was not permitted as an option.

Has MLSE changed its objectives and company directives when he was replaced by Burke?
Considering what Burke claimed coming onboard, I suspect he told MLSE that getting back to the playoffs would not take a 5 year rebuild.

He'd probably say that because of his age he was capable of doing it faster.

Apologizing the fans for failure kind of points in that direction, otherwise they'd have just claimed it was part of the plan.

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10-28-2012, 01:57 PM
  #57
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i will never believe that JFJ was a victim. if he is actually GM material you will see him get another shot some day. i think that he's a decent scout, but he obviously couldn't cut it as a GM and the Execs made a mistake. It might not have been MLSE execs telling him to make the playoffs at all cost. it actually might have been JFJ who sold the idea to MLSE.

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10-28-2012, 02:02 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
i will never believe that JFJ was a victim. if he is actually GM material you will see him get another shot some day. i think that he's a decent scout, but he obviously couldn't cut it as a GM and the Execs made a mistake. It might not have been MLSE execs telling him to make the playoffs at all cost. it actually might have been JFJ who sold the idea to MLSE.
Actually, MLSE came out and admitted JFj told them a rebuild was necessary but they denied him that option.

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10-28-2012, 02:06 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Considering what Burke claimed coming onboard, I suspect he told MLSE that getting back to the playoffs would not take a 5 year rebuild.

He'd probably say that because of his age he was capable of doing it faster.

Apologizing the fans for failure kind of points in that direction, otherwise they'd have just claimed it was part of the plan.
Richard Peddie back in June 2010 speaking on behalf of MLSE at the time as spokesman supports your belief at his press conference.

Quote:
Richard Peddie: "We (MLSE) expect the Toronto Maple Leafs to make the playoffs this season."

“Brian said last year (2009-10 season), he felt we were capable of doing it, but this season? We expect it,” Peddie said. “The tearing down is done. Now we’re building up with youth and adding some players in free agency this summer.”
Two complete seasons later, MLSE finds themselves positioned 5th from the bottom of the league standings, with a GM claiming his team was the equivalent of "An "18 wheeler going off the end of a cliff".

When ownership feels compelled to humble themselves and acknowledge publicly apologizing for the failures of the team, claiming "our fans deserve better" that THE PLAN is not working as expected nor promised.

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10-28-2012, 02:24 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by disgruntleddave View Post
Are we better off now than we were 4 or so years ago?

Like the USA, their president screwed them and set them up for a downward spiral. Now the USA is getting better after slowly coming out of a nose dive - a dive where the biggest loss in altitude happened under the new president.

We were set up to fail miserably. Just like the end of bush's presidency, it was only a matter of time until the impacts started to be felt more directly.

Now we have burke, who has had some missteps, who has seen the ship go down thanks to our past, and has slowly stopped the increase in bleeding and is on the way up.

If you don't think the USA is better off now than 4 years ago, then you will likely see the same with our team. It is a shortsighted view that does not understand what momentum is, and how long it takes to correct it when it's going in the wrong direction.
I've never understood why Canadians are so obsessed with American politics.

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10-28-2012, 02:25 PM
  #61
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If you're not going to fire Burke. You need to extend him. As painful as that is to say. If the man is desperate to make the playoffs - he's going to make desperate moves - which will once again set the franchise back. Either Fire him - or give him the illusion of job security.

Unless it really is ownership pushing the WIN NOW ASAP philosophy - then it doesn't ever matter who's in charge - it will be the same results.

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10-28-2012, 02:26 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Actually, MLSE came out and admitted JFj told them a rebuild was necessary but they denied him that option.

if that is true then it speaks loudly about JFJ's integrity.

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10-28-2012, 02:36 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Richard Peddie back in June 2010 speaking on behalf of MLSE at the time as spokesman supports your belief at his press conference.



Two complete seasons later, MLSE finds themselves positioned 5th from the bottom of the league standings, with a GM claiming his team was the equivalent of "An "18 wheeler going off the end of a cliff".

When ownership feels compelled to humble themselves and acknowledge publicly apologizing for the failures of the team, claiming "our fans deserve better" that THE PLAN is not working as expected nor promised.
I still fail to see any real plan:

The Human turnsile plan has produced the worse results:

He traded a Young NHL defenceman who is a stay at home shut down type D man who can drop the mitts if needed for a forward who played 15 games in the NHL last year and contributed nothing. A NHL D man for an AHL player.

He traded away a young producing forward for a late 1st round and 3rd pick. If you are rebuilding you keep a young forward who produces and not trade him away for a late 1st and 3rd.

He traded away a young D man who lead the team in hits and blocked shots as well as loved being a Leaf for a soft big Forward that thus far has been a band-aid. The jury is out on this forward.

The above 3 trade are as a result of one player.

We sign a concussed older D man to a 4 year deal.

We sign a band-aid Center who is a player that no one else would sign for the kind of money we paid him for two year.....and he was as advertised, soft and over paid.

We had a coach who had no idea on how to be a coach of a young team allowing his captain to run the show.

As much as people rip on Komi, I will give him credit as a leader. He shoulder the blame for the whole team during two different interviews late last season, where as our captain (wearing a Red Bull hat while representing the Leafs) ...shared the blame with his team mates.

This does not sound like a team that is rebuilding to me.

This year if there is a season...the biggest battle will likely be behind closed doors....battle of wills between the coach and the captain. One of them will have to go or say uncle.....the coach will not say uncle....so he will either stay with him in charge or be fired with the Captain still very much in charge....stay tune. My money is on the coach!

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Old
10-28-2012, 02:36 PM
  #64
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I've never understood why Canadians are so obsessed with American politics.
Because if we vote for the wrong guy, a bridge doesn't get built, and if you vote for the wrong guy he blows up the ****ing world

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10-28-2012, 02:53 PM
  #65
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I voted yes to keep Burke because I think the Leafs are closer to a Playoff team then some might think. Yes all the Hockey preview magazines or people such as Nick Kypreos and Doug MacLean have said they will miss the Playoffs again. However if the Leafs can start off playing well which they did last season and not have a late season melt down, they can make the Playoffs. As of February 6, 2012 they were 6th place in the Eastern Conference and only a few points out of 4th place. So basically they should let Burke finish what he has started.

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10-28-2012, 02:57 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
When a GM takes his team to 2nd and 5th last overall in two of the past three seasons, bottoming it out, there is really no direction but upward in the future no matter who the GM is in charge.

If Burke was let go and new GM hired what direction would fans expect the team to go through change?

If Burke was released and not replaced, but simply the reigns turned over to the remaining management staff Nonis, Dudley, Poulin etc. what team direction would be expected in the coming years?.
The islanders and blue jackets say hi.

Just because Burkes teams have finished last it's not a given that without proper management they won't continue to bottome out. Your arguement has more holes then the current leafs line up. Advantage Burke

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10-28-2012, 03:36 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
I voted yes to keep Burke because I think the Leafs are closer to a Playoff team then some might think. Yes all the Hockey preview magazines or people such as Nick Kypreos and Doug MacLean have said they will miss the Playoffs again. However if the Leafs can start off playing well which they did last season and not have a late season melt down, they can make the Playoffs. As of February 6, 2012 they were 6th place in the Eastern Conference and only a few points out of 4th place. So basically they should let Burke finish what he has started.
there's a factual / positive quality about this post, but it refuses to acknowledge the final results. it also fails to acknowledge all the other bottom teams of every single year in which they "came close"/"looked good for a while there" and didn't make the playoffs. the islanders, minn., columbus, tampa, the habs, winnipeg, etc. all looked really good there for while didn't they?

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10-28-2012, 03:43 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
there's a factual / positive quality about this post, but it refuses to acknowledge the final results. it also fails to acknowledge all the other bottom teams of every single year in which they "came close"/"looked good for a while there" and didn't make the playoffs. the islanders, minn., columbus, tampa, the habs, winnipeg, etc. all looked really good there for while didn't they?
Personally speaking I can't see the Islanders improving. They have been a lottery team since 2008 always selecting in the top 5 of the Draft. The only time they didn't was 2008 when they traded the 5th pick to Toronto.

Minnesota & Columbus are in the Western Conference so they won't effect Toronto chances of making it in the Eastern Conference.

Tampa Bay, Montreal & Winnipeg could be better and why couldn't they make it if a different teams from the Eastern Conference misses the Playoffs. So why does it always have to be Toronto who misses out? I have seen others predict New Jersey, Washington, Florida & Ottawa to miss and they were Playoff teams in 2012.

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10-28-2012, 04:03 PM
  #69
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Because if we vote for the wrong guy, a bridge doesn't get built, and if you vote for the wrong guy he blows up the ****ing world
Bit of a slippery slope there, no?

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10-28-2012, 04:34 PM
  #70
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I've never understood why Canadians are so obsessed with American politics.
Because if any Canadian turns on the TV right now, the election is being covered on atleast 5 stations all day. It's hard to not have an opinion.

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10-28-2012, 04:48 PM
  #71
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Bit of a slippery slope there, no?
Is that a Canada joke?

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10-28-2012, 04:56 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
No I'm saying that every JFJ team was better than every BURKE team.
This fact speaks volumes about the state the Leafs find themselves in, years from being remotely a contender.

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10-28-2012, 05:01 PM
  #73
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I think Burke has certainly had his up's and down's, but he's done something that no other GM in the past 20 years has done. He's built a prospect system to the point where it's fairly dependable and we actually have reliable call-ups and young talent in the system.

Sure, his teams are no better than GMs like JFJ, but with the young assets we've added his passing grade is much higher than a GM like JFJ.

That all said, i think when Burke's days are done here Nonis will be his replacement, and personally i like Nonis better than Burke. However, I dont hate burke like a lot of guys/girls around here.

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10-28-2012, 05:39 PM
  #74
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I think Burke's been alright so far. Bumpy road, but I like the farm system he's building.

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10-28-2012, 05:40 PM
  #75
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You know... after a few of these threads, you start noticing a pattern. The voting in the poll is always a landslide in favor of Burke, yet the posts seem as if it's a 50/50 split. You begin to notice that it's the same few people arguing against him every single time. The people making pro Burke remarks and the level of detail they go into is the only real difference.

In my opinion, I think the general feeling in Leafs Nation is that while people had hoped for quicker results, they realize that things are moving ahead in the right direction.

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