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The All Purpose Luongo Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

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Old
10-28-2012, 04:39 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
Some of these trades are brutal.. Get ready to be shocked nucks fans
so what do you think is fair? lets see it.

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10-28-2012, 04:50 PM
  #977
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Lupul and Connolly for Luongo and Raymond

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10-28-2012, 04:51 PM
  #978
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I prefer something around Kulemin. He's a decent player, and a good fit for the second line. At a minimum, Kulemin + 1st. That would be the bottom line right there.

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10-28-2012, 05:01 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by BigMacJokinen View Post
Lupul and Connolly for Luongo and Raymond
Throw in a 2nd from Toronto's side and I'd do it.

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10-28-2012, 05:07 PM
  #980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
so what do you think is fair? lets see it.
Bozak, ashton/colborne + 3rd

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10-28-2012, 05:17 PM
  #981
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Toronto has the luxur- liability of two young, green and unproven goalies who have next to no chance of being successful.
I think Reimer has proven himself to be a #1 Goalie based on his rookie season in 2010-2011. He was able to get 20 wins after Janurary 1, 2011 and almost got the Leafs into the Playoffs. So had he not got injured against Montreal last October I think he gets them into the Playoffs in 2012 and Toronto doesn't even think about getting Luongo.

As for Ben Scrivines I don't think he is ready yet to be the Leafs #1 Goalie, however he did lead the Toronto Marlies to the Calder Cup Finals last season. So I think that was a positive thing for him.

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10-28-2012, 05:20 PM
  #982
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Throw in a 2nd from Toronto's side and I'd do it.
So you would be ok with Vancouver getting two players who could become UFA's after the 2012-2013 season and the only thing Vancover could be left with is a 2nd round pick, assuming either one does not re-sign with them.

Personally speaking I want Toronto to keep Lupul because of how great he played with Kessel, however if Brian Burke thought there is a chance he won't re-sign then I would say to trade him.

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10-28-2012, 05:23 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
I think Reimer has proven himself to be a #1 Goalie based on his rookie season in 2010-2011. He was able to get 20 wins after Janurary 1, 2011 and almost got the Leafs into the Playoffs. So had he not got injured against Montreal last October I think he gets them into the Playoffs in 2012 and Toronto doesn't even think about getting Luongo.

As for Ben Scrivines I don't think he is ready yet to be the Leafs #1 Goalie, however he did lead the Toronto Marlies to the Calder Cup Finals last season. So I think that was a positive thing for him.


These are the kinds of posts that make Leafs fans look bad. One good half season and one terrible half season does not equal proven #1 goalie.

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10-28-2012, 05:26 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
Bozak, ashton/colborne + 3rd
swap the 3rd for a 1st, add Blacker and its more realistic.

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10-28-2012, 05:27 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
So you would be ok with Vancouver getting two players who could become UFA's after the 2012-2013 season and the only thing Vancover could be left with is a 2nd round pick, assuming either one does not re-sign with them.

Personally speaking I want Toronto to keep Lupul because of how great he played with Kessel, however if Brian Burke thought there is a chance he won't re-sign then I would say to trade him.
The reason why we ask for so much quantity is because Leafs fans are averse to giving quality.

If it was something like Lupul + Finn for Luongo straight up I'd be fine with that. Sure he's an upcoming UFA, but he's a good player, and we'd be able so re-sign him with the cap space we have coming off the books.

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10-28-2012, 05:33 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
Bozak, ashton/colborne + 3rd
For a number 1 goaltender?

"Get ready to be shocked."

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10-28-2012, 07:22 PM
  #987
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You see criticism because the Leafs are currently a bad team. If they were good, they would get more praise. But make no mistake, their is an underlying bias there to often pander to their biggest audience.


For instance, at the beginning of the rumours for Luongo, McKenzie and Dreger "speculated" that he would be dealt in a soft deal and that there wasn't a market for Lu. Where were they getting their information from? How was it being filtered to them? Certainly not from the Canucks side... Later on, we learn that Gillis demanded a good return, and then both reporters changed their tune to other teams refusing to pay a significant demand. Which meant that they were completely wrong about their initial take, which just so happened to favour a TO perception, and then inferred a negative response by GMs to the actual asking price, which again favours a TO's perception.


This is just one example of the TSN media point of view. Which is why I said it was better to agree to disagree, because many VAN fans have a very different perception of what TSN actually is. Better to leave it alone and talk about Lu only.
This is silly, You're saying Mackenzie is not saying what you want to hear, so you assume he's biased for the Leafs. Mackenzie is the most resopected anayst around. You're saying he just lies about "Sources" to make the Leafs situation look better? Come on, let's be serious.

Gillis has come out and in his own words stated the Luongo trade likely won't provide any immidiate help for the team. That lines up with what TSN was saying.

You guys are really reaching to try to find the Toronto media being biased for the Leafs. That was terrible "Example"


Was Dreger biased when he told anyone that would listen that Tomas Kaberle had much lower value than Leaf fans thought and he'd get at best a second rounder days before he was traded to Boston?

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10-28-2012, 07:26 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
This is silly, You're saying Mackenzie is not saying what you want to hear, so you assume he's biased for the Leafs. Mackenzie is the most resopected anayst around. You're saying he just lies about "Sources" to make the Leafs situation look better? Come on, let's be serious.

Gillis has come out and in his own words stated the Luongo trade likely won't provide any immidiate help for the team. That lines up with what TSN was saying.

You guys are really reaching to try to find the Toronto media being biased for the Leafs. That was terrible "Example"


Was Dreger biased when he told anyone that would listen that Tomas Kaberle had much lower value than Leaf fans thought and he'd get at best a second rounder days before he was traded to Boston?
I believe the quote says a different look. I don't think it says a futures package or anything like that.

Personally I think it will be mainly one as the leafs don't have a lot of anything else to offer that helps us.

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10-28-2012, 07:32 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
As far as forwards, it's going to be either Bozak or Kulemin as the primary "now" piece.

I've heard rumblings TOR plans to move JVR to center, which means you have Bozak, Connolly, Lombardi, Steckel, McClement fighting for two center spots. Steckel is a lock-down 3C, and McClement is a new acquisition and the perfect 3/4C. Which puts Bozak (or Grabovski?), Connolly, and Lombardi on the wing if they stay.

Vancouver would be looking for depth at center and wing, and two-way capability. Kulemin fits that bill perfectly, and Bozak is also a good fit. So let's start there.

Bozak+Kulemin+?=Luongo+?

Vancouver probably wouldn't be pleased with that return overall, and would want prospects or high picks in addition.

Bozak+Kulemin+TOR 1st=Luongo+?

Burke is now looking at that and thinking "Hmm. That's an awful lot to give up for one guy." So he wants something back. He also would be looking to keep the deal generally cap-equal without crippling the Leafs.

Bozak+Kulemin+Lombardi+TOR 1st=Luongo+BallardLombardi would fit in Vancouver's bottom six with his speed, and Ballard could help Toronto much more than he does Vancouver.
So the Leafs take on 9.5 million in cap space, after one year, while the Nucks take on Kulemin's 2.8? Sheer brilliance, and just as ridiculous as the Gardnier + 1st round pick + proposals. Cap space will likely have more value to teams in the new CBA than what is being considered. The ammount of cap space coming to Toronto in this proposal is beyond dumb. As far as these proposals involving Raymond, logic will tell you the Leafs are very deep at on the wings with Kadri and Frattin knocking on the door. It makes no sense whatsoever for the Leafs to aquire Raymond at all.

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10-28-2012, 07:34 PM
  #990
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To the Islanders: Roberto Luongo, Manny Malhotra *
To the Canucks: Kyle Okposo, Travis Harmonic, Islander's 2013 second round pick.

*Islander's second trade (prearranged)
To the Leafs: Evgeni Nabokov, Islander's 2014 second round pick
To the Islanders: Nikolai Kulemin

The Islanders get the best player in Luongo who they should never have traded away in the fitst place plus get a RW to replace Okposo. A RW who is skilled enough to also play with Travares and put up points.

The Leafs get an experienced goalie, though not as skilled as Luongo, who is still a legitmat first string goalie and who can help mentor both Reimer and Scrivens.

The Canucks get a RW who's style of play fits the Sedins, allowing Burrows to play with Kesler plus the Canucks get a RD to play with Ballard and provide a bit of depth at RD.

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10-28-2012, 07:36 PM
  #991
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Hamonic isn't going anywhere soon.

I still think Detroit would make the best middleman.

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10-28-2012, 07:37 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
To the Islanders: Roberto Luongo, Manny Malhotra *
To the Canucks: Kyle Okposo, Travis Harmonic, Islander's 2013 second round pick.

*Islander's second trade (prearranged)
To the Leafs: Evgeni Nabokov, Islander's 2014 second round pick
To the Islanders: Nikolai Kulemin

The Islanders get the best player in Luongo who they should never have traded away in the fitst place plus get a RW to replace Okposo. A RW who is skilled enough to also play with Travares and put up points.

The Leafs get an experienced goalie, though not as skilled as Luongo, who is still a legitmat first string goalie and who can help mentor both Reimer and Scrivens.

The Canucks get a RW who's style of play fits the Sedins, allowing Burrows to play with Kesler plus the Canucks get a RD to play with Ballard and provide a bit of depth at RD.
Be ready to duck

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10-28-2012, 07:42 PM
  #993
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So Luongo was interviewed by Global BC & Luongo confirms (yet again) if there is no deal in place he is fine playing in Vancouver again. Loves the city, great organization, respects his teammates...etc

So can we PLEASE stop with the consistent speculation that he might become a locker room distraction?
Some more tidbits from the paper:







I don't think anyone believes Lou will be a locker room distraction, he's too classy of a player. I also dont think that if anyone has an idea of what he is like as a player, being as competitve as he is, being in his prime, according to some top 5 in the NHL (which is wrong) will be happy splitting duties with Schenider. Lou will not be happy long term having to split duties, and to expect him to embrace it, while the Cannucks absorb the cap hit for both is unrealistic and bad business. As an organization, to keep Lou on the team, while taking the cap hit for both, and not trading him because they feel like they wont get the value they deserve in a trade is bush league and disrespectful to Lou.

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10-28-2012, 07:45 PM
  #994
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Luongo might also decide he'd rather stay and have a better shot at the cup, especially if he thinks he can win the starter job back a la Thomas.

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10-28-2012, 07:49 PM
  #995
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Luongo might also decide he'd rather stay and have a better shot at the cup, especially if he thinks he can win the starter job back a la Thomas.
Strange, if that were the case, then why all the trade rumours and the issues with Lou being pulled in the playoffs? Sounds like great cap management keeping two goalies on the books, with an upcoming CBA that is looking like a smaller cap is on the horizon. Good luck with that.

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10-28-2012, 07:51 PM
  #996
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Strange, if that were the case, then why all the trade rumours and the issues with Lou being pulled in the playoffs? Sounds like great cap management keeping two goalies on the books, with an upcoming CBA that is looking like a smaller cap is on the horizon. Good luck with that.
Might want to look up some threads about Thomas and the Bruins a few years back. People saying Thomas would be lucky to garner a 2nd rounder and such.

We'll be fine capwise too. Malhotra and Raymond come off the books this year, and Ballard can be dumped to a cap floor team if neccessary.

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10-28-2012, 07:55 PM
  #997
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Might want to look up some threads about Thomas and the Bruins a few years back. People saying Thomas would be lucky to garner a 2nd rounder and such.

We'll be fine capwise too. Malhotra and Raymond come off the books this year, and Ballard can be dumped to a cap floor team if neccessary.
and they would have been lucky to get a second back then. he was virtually unmovable. lotta teams probably kicked themselves missing out on getting him

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10-28-2012, 07:56 PM
  #998
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Might want to look up some threads about Thomas and the Bruins a few years back. People saying Thomas would be lucky to garner a 2nd rounder and such.

We'll be fine capwise too. Malhotra and Raymond come off the books this year, and Ballard can be dumped to a cap floor team if neccessary.
Might want to look at reality as well. There are reports based on recent CBA negotiations, that the cap could end up being in the neighborhood of 60 million. Having two goalies that have a combined 9.3 million dollar cap hit, 1/6 of the enitre cap for two players, where only one can play at a time, make sense? Again, good luck with that.

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10-28-2012, 08:03 PM
  #999
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Might want to look at reality as well. There are reports based on recent CBA negotiations, that the cap could end up being in the neighborhood of 60 million. Having two goalies that have a combined 9.3 million dollar cap hit, 1/6 of the enitre cap for two players, where only one can play at a time, make sense? Again, good luck with that.
The Predators have 8.5 mil, Rangers 8.1 mil, Canadiens 7.6 mil, Bruins 9.3 mil.

It's not so terrible.

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10-28-2012, 08:07 PM
  #1000
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This is silly, You're saying Mackenzie is not saying what you want to hear, so you assume he's biased for the Leafs. Mackenzie is the most resopected anayst around. You're saying he just lies about "Sources" to make the Leafs situation look better? Come on, let's be serious.

It's silly to imply McKenzie made a mistake by speculating on something he had little perspective on? What was he doing, acting as a mouthpiece for the TO fanbase? He certainly didn't have any inside Canuck info feuling his speculation. Later on we learn just how little he knew.


Or is it silly to have blind faith in media types at all? McKenzie was unfair in his analysis at that time. Only later did he correct himself. Before that, some VAN fans suspected he and Dreger were just mouthpieces for the Burke agenda.


Quote:
Gillis has come out and in his own words stated the Luongo trade likely won't provide any immidiate help for the team. That lines up with what TSN was saying.

How does making the team different line up with the soft deal/cap dump proclamations from the TSN think tank? This I'd like to hear. Please eloborate.


Quote:
You guys are really reaching to try to find the Toronto media being biased for the Leafs. That was terrible "Example"


Was Dreger biased when he told anyone that would listen that Tomas Kaberle had much lower value than Leaf fans thought and he'd get at best a second rounder days before he was traded to Boston?


This is funny, you point to an example that highlights Dreger's incompetence in a thread branch that questions his ability... I'm not making a case for Dreger's competence, you and TieClark are... or were.


My example pertains only to the Luongo situation. If I wanted to change your blind faith based perceptions on all things TO, I would drag out a laundry list of indictments against TSN that show bias, but I don't want to derail the thread past the Luongo situation itself. In that context, many VAN fans were questioning the validity of these early reports coming out of TSN. It just so happens, we were assured of their biased nature afterwards when we learned of what Gillis may be asking for... Simply put, they were proven wrong.

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