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Edmonton Eskimos (IV): playoffs @ Toronto next week; Tillman fired

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Old
10-28-2012, 11:39 PM
  #426
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Kavis Reed is a buffoon.

He needs to go.

I doubt that I will even follow the Eskimos next year or going forward if he is still coaching this team next season.

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10-28-2012, 11:43 PM
  #427
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A little bit of jumping off the bandwagon I'm noting. Isn't this what nucks fans do?

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10-28-2012, 11:49 PM
  #428
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A little bit of jumping off the bandwagon I'm noting. Isn't this what nucks fans do?
I'm not jumping off any bandwagons - I'm just not willing to watch a team that puts a 60 year old at quarterback and expects to win games.

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10-28-2012, 11:53 PM
  #429
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Yeah, I think theres a few too many over reactions here about it. Theres a lot more that goes on in a football week and all kinds of gamemanship.

A lot changes and a lot has. Wouldn't be the first time either that what Reed says and what happens in terms of personnel on game day don't match. Anybody following the RB three headed monster would know this.

Even today, Reed on TV at the half saying they're going to get Boyd going in the second half and they're going with him.

It was pure BS and possibly intended for whatever Al's personnel were listening to the telecast. Boyd got one carry, a decent one, 6yds, then they threw Messam back in.

What Reed says isn't neccessarily what occurs.
You're giving Reed way too much credit here. While it's a nice thought that maybe crafty 'ol Kavis is trying to keep the Stamps off guard with some misdirection through the media, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that's the case.

You really think saying "we're getting Boyd going" for the 2nd half was a clever ploy to fool Al's personnel (it was a meaningless game for them, I rather doubt they were paying attention anyway)? I think it was just one of many baseless comments made by a coach with no ability to manage personnel, no sense of in-game adjustments, and no control over the plays his ******** underling co-ordinator is calling.

Look at Cerebral's post above. The "We went with Nicholls for a change of pace" comment is classic. I guess you decided that after 110 minutes of awful production from Joseph it was finally time for a change of pace? These are the words of an incompetent, confused boob if I ever saw them.

Hey, Reed had me fooled. Had me fooled really good. I thought he was a great coach, and we would really take the next step after Crandell was fired, which I assumed was just a formality after the disastrous end to last season. This season, especially from Labour Day onward, has been a real eye-opener. We've had Maciocia level coaching for most of this season. It can only be described as an unmitigated disaster. I literally cannot think of a way this coaching staff could have done a worse job. The fact that Marcus Crandell is still on this staff is just mind-blowing.

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10-28-2012, 11:54 PM
  #430
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I'm not jumping off any bandwagons - I'm just not willing to watch a team that puts a 60 year old at quarterback and expects to win games.
Tomato - Tomatoe.

At least PVR the game. Good things might happen.

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10-28-2012, 11:55 PM
  #431
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Tomato - Tomatoe.

At least PVR the game. Good things might happen.
Oh, I'll probably still watch just for the hope that Nichol goes in.

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10-29-2012, 12:02 AM
  #432
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You're giving Reed way too much credit here. While it's a nice thought that maybe crafty 'ol Kavis is trying to keep the Stamps off guard with some misdirection through the media, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that's the case.

You really think saying "we're getting Boyd going" for the 2nd half was a clever ploy to fool Al's personnel (it was a meaningless game for them, I rather doubt they were paying attention anyway)? I think it was just one of many baseless comments made by a coach with no ability to manage personnel, no sense of in-game adjustments, and no control over the plays his ******** underling co-ordinator is calling.

Look at Cerebral's post above. The "We went with Nicholls for a change of pace" comment is classic. I guess you decided that after 110 minutes of awful production from Joseph it was finally time for a change of pace? These are the words of an incompetent, confused boob if I ever saw them.

Hey, Reed had me fooled. Had me fooled really good. I thought he was a great coach, and we would really take the next step after Crandell was fired, which I assumed was just a formality after the disastrous end to last season. This season, especially from Labour Day onward, has been a real eye-opener. We've had Maciocia level coaching for most of this season. It can only be described as an unmitigated disaster. I literally cannot think of a way this coaching staff could have done a worse job. The fact that Marcus Crandell is still on this staff is just mind-blowing.
I've spent this football season trying to be positive as possible. Overall I just want to see playoffs, however we get there.

In anycase people will remember I started getting after Reed when he started throwing Burnett under the bus. Didn't much like that and Reed sometimes doesn't know when to stop and think about his own responsibility in real time. It was his fault Burnett was running the ball out, we both said it at the time, and Kavis later admitted it. Which makes his antics look pretty stupid.
Plus that a guy that keeps mouthing off about team responsibility, not making stupid plays, not reacting, does plenty of it himself on the sideline. Which leads to a do what I say not what I do disconnect. You have to walk the walk. Be the class act you want your players to be.

Reed is kind of a fire and brimstone locker motivational speaker. Guy has a role, and I think he knows D good, And I think he evaluates personnel OK. Where he fails is in using and trusting those personnel. Seems to second guess himself a lot. All the rookie coach stuff is happening this year.

I'd give him another year to see what he's really made of and if he's learning on the job.

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10-29-2012, 12:15 AM
  #433
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I've spent this football season trying to be positive as possible. Overall I just want to see playoffs, however we get there.

In anycase people will remember I started getting after Reed when he started throwing Burnett under the bus. Didn't much like that and Reed sometimes doesn't know when to stop and think about his own responsibility in real time. It was his fault Burnett was running the ball out, we both said it at the time, and Kavis later admitted it. Which makes his antics look pretty stupid.
Plus that a guy that keeps mouthing off about team responsibility, not making stupid plays, not reacting, does plenty of it himself on the sideline. Which leads to a do what I say not what I do disconnect. You have to walk the walk. Be the class act you want your players to be.

Reed is kind of a fire and brimstone locker motivational speaker. Guy has a role, and I think he knows D good, And I think he evaluates personnel OK. Where he fails is in using and trusting those personnel. Seems to second guess himself a lot. All the rookie coach stuff is happening this year.

I'd give him another year to see what he's really made of and if he's learning on the job.
I agree, and it's very problematic. How often do you see a coach regress from year one to two? There have simply been too many losses where coaching was the #1 culprit this year. If he'd fired Crandell mid-season I'd have some faith that he was going to turn things around, but his total inaction in allowing his buddy to neuter the offense with awful playcalling and player management is unforgivable. The only way this organization can justify Reed keeping his job is if we win on Friday and then head into Calgary and knock them off in the semi-final. Anything less, and he simply has to go.

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10-29-2012, 12:36 AM
  #434
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Kavis Reed is a buffoon.

He needs to go.

I doubt that I will even follow the Eskimos next year or going forward if he is still coaching this team next season.
Will you still follow them if the guy who gave away Ray and hired Reed is here? He's far more responsible than the guy trying to make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

I fear that ET is managing to skew things enough that the meat-shields will fall (Crandell, Kavis), and we'll be stuck with the same **** show next year.

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A little bit of jumping off the bandwagon I'm noting. Isn't this what nucks fans do?
None from me. They are who I thought they were, and who I said they were. At 2-7 in their last 9, I don't see why anyone would be remotely scared of them.

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10-29-2012, 12:42 AM
  #435
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I agree, and it's very problematic. How often do you see a coach regress from year one to two? There have simply been too many losses where coaching was the #1 culprit this year. If he'd fired Crandell mid-season I'd have some faith that he was going to turn things around, but his total inaction in allowing his buddy to neuter the offense with awful playcalling and player management is unforgivable. The only way this organization can justify Reed keeping his job is if we win on Friday and then head into Calgary and knock them off in the semi-final. Anything less, and he simply has to go.
You're grossly underestimating how much of a say Tillman has in who the coaches are.

You're also missing that keeping Crandell is good for Tillman... it gives him someone to let go as a scape goat (which will actually be the third time that it's happened to Crandell in less than 3 months, given first he had an "adviser" come in and then he was "demoted") to distract attention from the fact that he took away a guy who has thrown for 140+ passer ratings and 8 TD's in his last two games... for Steven frigging Jyles.

Following the spin coming from this organization (and lets not forget that ANOTHER quality person left this organization in the last week... common trend since ET took over) is dizzying.

Esks will be a **** show until ET is gone, and likely for a year or two after given all the damage he's done.

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10-29-2012, 02:12 AM
  #436
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The one aspect where we'd all agree is in this notion that the replacing of RR needed to take a long time. That we should just get rid of him and not bring in players that are good enough to keep us competitive this year.
Without a doubt. Its virtually impossible to defend Tillman when it comes to the Ray trade.

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I know its the teams view that the D was going to carry the team all year and I think without a plethora of injuries that would work to some extent at least in the regular season. I'm not convinced this offense would put up much in the playoffs. Maybe one win.

From comments Tillman appears to be bringing another raft of QB recruits in. There was no real reason not to have set the bar higher for doing that this season.
Tillman pretty much has to do that. The obvious concern however will be how the team brings these QB's along. The way they have handled Nichols gives us some insight into just how any new QB will be developed. Tillman really needed to bring in some QB's before he traded Ray...not 1 season after.


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As much as I've defended the QB's we have its from the perspective of this is what we've got and cheering for, and not against the club. This should not be confused with my want for something better going forward.
I don't have an issue with you defending the QB's...its the fact that you were making entirely false claims about Joseph and Jyles that motivated me to respond. I really think your disdain for Ray clouded your reasoning because there is no other explanation I can see to explain some of the nonsense you were posting.

Glad to see that you have finally come to realistic terms with the J&J tandem.

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ps Haven't heard you talk much about Reilly. Wish we had somebody like that in the stable.

I haven't been on the boards much lately but I like what I have seen from Reilly. Having said that Nichols showed some stuff tonight that I really didn't think he had in him. I was very impressed and very wrong about the kids abilities. Where did that arm come from?

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10-29-2012, 02:24 AM
  #437
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A couple of notes on the game tonight.....

Why does Reed gamble on 3rd and 5 with an entire quarter yet to be played? That loss of field position may well have cost a field goal which ended up being the difference in the game. This isn't revisionist either...I thought it was very questionable when the decision was made.

Why is it that Reed has talked on and on about the importance of a run game and yet we watch the team abandon the run game week after week?
It happened again tonight.

Why is Boyd on this team again? They clearly have no intent of using him so why bring him back?

Now on to Nichols...despite the incredibly lucky play on the Stamps TD he looked better than I thought was possible. Small sample size to be sure but he made the most of every down which was a far cry from what Joseph did. Here's hoping that Reed has the sense to say he's starting Jospeh next week and then gives him a very very short leash and goes to Nichols. Takes the heat of of Nichols a bit and it complicates Calgarys prep work.

Ultimately Reed has to start making better game decisions because he has cost this team a few games with his lack of experience. He can start by giving Nichols at least 3+ quarters of work next week.


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10-29-2012, 08:19 AM
  #438
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Just imagine if Nichols had an arm, he'd be NFL worthy.

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10-29-2012, 10:28 AM
  #439
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Our weaksauce quarterback who played the last 10 mins has a good enough arm, afterall this is only the CFL.

No way i'm tuning out next year. Complaining is the only thing we're good at in the City of Champions in recent years....

Feel the burn Reed/Tillman, it's a neceassary part of every sport fans capacity.

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10-29-2012, 11:06 AM
  #440
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A little bit of jumping off the bandwagon I'm noting. Isn't this what nucks fans do?
As I was taught by the Eskies during the Danny years, the only thing they understand is less tickets sold. I will still watch games from free online streams and what not, I just won't support them with my money for a season. Or until necessary changes take place.

Tillman tanked this season last December. I gave him the benefit of the doubt this year, in case he really was a genius and knew way more than me, as was suggested to me on these boards many times. Well lesson learned. I am not repeating that mistake again. This was definitely one of the least entertaining Eskimos team I can remember.

As for Reed, it's a given that he needs to go. His refusal to try anything other than his buddies at QB and offensive co-ordinator have turned what could have been an early exit from the playoffs type season into a missing the playoffs type season. Which is kind of impressive given the great D he was given, and that we're in a league where only 2 teams miss the playoffs. Sure he had no QBs to work with, but his in game management for all the close games we lost this year was just god awful.

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10-29-2012, 11:15 AM
  #441
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I was a fan and attended games during the nasty '60s and Danny's reign of error. I don't believe in abandoning my team during troubled times. I'll be in the stands next season.

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10-29-2012, 11:28 AM
  #442
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I was a fan and attended games during the nasty '60s and Danny's reign of error. I don't believe in abandoning my team during troubled times. I'll be in the stands next season.
And kudos to you. It's die hards that keep teams afloat. But it's the casuals and those that can walk away for a year or two that management listens to. They ignore fan opinion right up until it hits them in the chequebook. BTW, I was a STH during Danny's reign as well. That's where I learned that the Eskies have no problem standing behind an obvious incompetent.

I am hoping the Eskies are smarter now and just replace Tillman and Reed so it isn't an issue for next season.

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10-29-2012, 11:39 AM
  #443
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And kudos to you. It's die hards that keep teams afloat. But it's the casuals and those that can walk away for a year or two that management listens to. They ignore fan opinion right up until it hits them in the chequebook. BTW, I was a STH during Danny's reign as well. That's where I learned that the Eskies have no problem standing behind an obvious incompetent.

I am hoping the Eskies are smarter now and just replace Tillman and Reed so it isn't an issue for next season.
I could just imagine if the Eskimos and Oilers listened to fans, we'd have about 163 players used this year instead of 83.

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10-29-2012, 11:53 AM
  #444
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I could just imagine if the Eskimos and Oilers listened to fans, we'd have about 163 players used this year instead of 83.
We may even win a few games.

Hard to be worse than what management has been for either club.

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10-29-2012, 12:09 PM
  #445
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We may even win a few games.

Hard to be worse than what management has been for either club.
There was a fan on the main boards proposing Yak for Franzen+.

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10-29-2012, 03:35 PM
  #446
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Can someone please abduct Kavis Reed?

Dave Campbell on Twitter;

Kavis Reed says Joseph starts b/c on film he had chances to make plays downfield but wasn't given the protection needed to execute.

Reed also pointed out that he wasn't happy with a few key drops by receivers and untimely penalties taken.






Wow.... just wow.

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10-29-2012, 03:50 PM
  #447
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Can someone please abduct Kavis Reed?

Dave Campbell on Twitter;

Kavis Reed says Joseph starts b/c on film he had chances to make plays downfield but wasn't given the protection needed to execute.

Reed also pointed out that he wasn't happy with a few key drops by receivers and untimely penalties taken.


Wow.... just wow.
If Reed truly believes this, he is completely incompetent as a head coach and should be dismissed immediately.

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10-29-2012, 03:55 PM
  #448
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2 things:

1.) Can we not get into the "I'm a better fan than you because X, Y, Z..." or "Real fans do activity 1, 2, 3...." circle jerk please? It's asinine and doesn't make sense. Everyone shows their fan-ness in their own way.

2.) If Joseph is starting, and we eventually lose, I'm done with Reed. No freaking way you don't start Nichols after the 9 minutes he had.

Reed's train of thought doesn't make sense. Joseph didn't get enough protection but had opportunities to make plays down the field. As opposed to Nichols who apparently got protection and actually made plays down the field.

Like what the hell?

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10-29-2012, 03:57 PM
  #449
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2 things:

1.) Can we not get into the "I'm a better fan than you because X, Y, Z..." or "Real fans do activity 1, 2, 3...." circle jerk please? It's asinine and doesn't make sense. Everyone shows their fan-ness in their own way.

2.) If Joseph is starting, and we eventually lose, I'm done with Reed. No freaking way you don't start Nichols after the 9 minutes he had.

Reed's train of thought doesn't make sense. Joseph didn't get enough protection but had opportunities to make plays down the field. As opposed to Nichols who apparently got protection and actually made plays down the field.

Like what the hell?
Well said, word for word exactly what I was thinking.

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10-29-2012, 04:45 PM
  #450
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I think it's safe to say that we are all Esks fans when it comes right down to it.

Damn, it's so hard some times but I would never cheer for anyone else. Let's hope that the law's of average are with us Friday night and the home crowd cause plenty of noise and make it hard on the snot donkey's.

I'm sick of losing to them. Oh, please god, let this team have one more win in them.

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