HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Why so much hatred and criticism towards the players?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-28-2012, 10:18 PM
  #51
ChillyPalmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Antarctica
Posts: 583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBPantherfan View Post
1) They seem to be very very butt hurt from the last CBA. So instead of trying to get a CBA they want to WIN and show the big bad owners they aren't going to take it.

2) They keep opening their mouths and looking like fools.

3) They are trying to dictate to billionaires how a business should be run and have in general thrown out horrible proposals one of which they couldn't even bother to run the numbers on.

4) And the biggest problem they hired Donald Fehr the man who ruined baseball for me. I am a fan of a small market team and have no desire to be the Pirates or Royals of the NHL (Panthers have been that already through mis-management)

Everyone on the players side *****ing about the owners first proposal; the only reason they did that was to show the players how bad the previous deal was for the owners. Basically you think the last deal was so great here you have our part of the pie and we will have your's. Didn't take the players long to reject that did it?
Is this some sort of joke?

The owners were ecstatic with the deal at the time they signed it. Everyone and their mother said the owners bent the players over the barrel. It was a horrible proposal, and set back negotiations for weeks.

I'm on the players side, but I think they should just sign the deal. The owners are gonna get what they want, the players should push for the CBA to last for a longer time.

Knowing these owners they would want a lockout in 8 years again. Nothing they're asking for is addressing core economic issues. It's just a band-aid. Teams will still lose money.

ChillyPalmer is offline  
Old
10-28-2012, 10:18 PM
  #52
AHockeyGameBrokeOut*
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Country: United States
Posts: 625
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild View Post
The players had a chance to get 43% of HRR and all 100% of the non-HRR? Wow, you're right, they should have taken that, they'd have got the bigger half.

Why do people keep saying the players wont tell you what they want. How much clearer can it be. They keep telling you but you dont listen or ignore it or call them names. Its very simple what they want.

Its claimed they live in the past, and yet in the same breath Fehr is demonized for ending baseballs troubles 20 years ago with a strike that ended when the courts ordered the owners to stop being crooks. And here in the present he is offering exactly what the majority of fans thought was a fair offer. And yet the players are thought to be living in the past??

It seems to me that in order to rationalize support for the owners, the most amazing cognitive disonnance must occur.
You never answered my question about how much the NHLPA is paying you to post on this board.

AHockeyGameBrokeOut* is offline  
Old
10-28-2012, 10:18 PM
  #53
TheFlyingV
Anatidaephobia
 
TheFlyingV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Yorba Linda, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
How much are the owners making?
How much are the owners spending?

TheFlyingV is offline  
Old
10-28-2012, 10:24 PM
  #54
thinkwild
Veni Vidi Toga
 
thinkwild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHockeyGameBrokeOut View Post
You never answered my question about how much the NHLPA is paying you to post on this board.
Im flattered that you beleive they would think me worthy enough to compensate me for that. How much do you think i could get? Would you be my agent in those negotiations? Oh no, wait, your philosophy is to always surrender when confronted with tough bosses, nevermind.

thinkwild is offline  
Old
10-28-2012, 10:31 PM
  #55
AHockeyGameBrokeOut*
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Country: United States
Posts: 625
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild View Post
Im flattered that you beleive they would think me worthy enough to compensate me for that. How much do you think i could get? Would you be my agent in those negotiations? Oh no, wait, your philosophy is to always surrender when confronted with tough bosses, nevermind.
Actually, my philosophy is 'by any means necessary'. There's a picture that's PG, and thus not entirely appropriate for this board,

But it's of the great philosopher Malcolm X who had a similar philosophy.

I think you know the picture I'm talking about.

If I was in Bettman's position or Fehr's position, the deal would already be done, or I would still be on the phone with one or the other right now.

I would force them to negotiate by continually nagging them, every waking minute of every waking hour of every day until the deal was finalized. I would make sure they had no time to do anything but negotiate the deal. I would interfere in their personal lives. I would interfere in the members of other parties lives. I would throw the entirety of it out in public for the whole world to see. I would make it as painful for them as it was for me, having to waste all that time talking to them when this could've been settled a long time ago.

I don't think you have any idea what kind of person I really am.

AHockeyGameBrokeOut* is offline  
Old
10-28-2012, 10:42 PM
  #56
KingBogo
Admitted Homer
 
KingBogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 4,517
vCash: 1345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I don't "hate" the players and I didn't start this thing on either side of the fence. But here's what I've seen:

1) The owners wanted to start negotiating this thing close to a year ago. The players insisted on waiting until the summer and then took until August to get serious.

2) The players rail on Bettman, but their hiring of Fehr (even MORE of a non-hockey mercenary than Gary) was a clear indicator of where they wanted to go with this thing. At that moment it was obvious that this process would be bitter, drawn-out and destructive... because that's what Fehr brings to the table. What is a fan supposed to make of that?

3) The overplayed line about "we just wanted to play while negotiating". How stupid do they think we are? They hired Don ****ing Fehr and want to start the season without an agreement... are they serious!?

4) Honestly, the players need to put a gag order on public statements. The more they speak out, the worse it gets.

5) It's a lost cause. Even if they manage a few extra concessions, what is it going to cost? We're losing games, careers, and the battle for public attention here. Hockey is losing its share in the sports marketplace, and for what? 1% of HRR? A year on ELCs? Exactly how much damage is going to be done to the sport when we all know that the global framework of the new CBA is already in view? It just comes off as ridiculous to continue to see non-starter proposals at this stage of the game, knowing damned well the players will eventually have no choice but to give up the pretense that they're capable of holding out for an ideal offer.

My feelings toward the owners are still basically neutral, because they've done exactly what I expected. But the players have taken the low ground early and often, and it doesn't appear to be getting them anywhere. As far as I'm concerned, we're missing games right now primarily because of the players.
Well Said. The more the players talk the worse they look. How many players are going to sacrifice their careers drinking Fehr's kool-aid?

KingBogo is online now  
Old
10-28-2012, 11:13 PM
  #57
Whydidijoin*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,812
vCash: 500
Under the previous system, players had 57% of revenues as profit, and were getting substantial raises every year of a CBA where they "lost" (Oh, the horrors of a loss from the player's side). Based on known figures, owners had 3.5% of revenues as profit, and costs are rising every year.

Most of that 3.5% was from a few teams. Most teams lost money, broke even, or relied on the playoffs to make money.

That is an unsustainable system, even with completely even revenue sharing, which will never happen either.

It also makes a player win 100% impossible. It is either take the owner's offer and try and negotiate off of it, or ask for league contraction (which would reduce the revenue totals and make tons of players lose their jobs). And the longer they wait, the more money they lose. Which makes the entire lockout pointless. We all know how this thing ends. It is a matter of how stupid can the players be before they accept.

Which, along with all the other retarded things that the players and NHLPA have done throughout this process (refusing to negotiate last year, twitter comments, proposing things that were already rejected, don't make sense or without doing the math, general stupid comments, etc.), makes fans extremely frustrated with the players.

Whydidijoin* is offline  
Old
10-28-2012, 11:16 PM
  #58
0123456789*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHockeyGameBrokeOut View Post
Actually, my philosophy is 'by any means necessary'. There's a picture that's PG, and thus not entirely appropriate for this board,

But it's of the great philosopher Malcolm X who had a similar philosophy.

I think you know the picture I'm talking about.

If I was in Bettman's position or Fehr's position, the deal would already be done, or I would still be on the phone with one or the other right now.

I would force them to negotiate by continually nagging them, every waking minute of every waking hour of every day until the deal was finalized. I would make sure they had no time to do anything but negotiate the deal. I would interfere in their personal lives. I would interfere in the members of other parties lives. I would throw the entirety of it out in public for the whole world to see. I would make it as painful for them as it was for me, having to waste all that time talking to them when this could've been settled a long time ago.

I don't think you have any idea what kind of person I really am.
You sure know allot about negotiations. Please tell me how exactly can two sides negotiate when one calls a bluff on the other, which happens often in negotiations where there is a culture of mistrust between the two sides. DO YOU KNOW WHY there is a culture of mistrust??? Because the owners in the past have never negotiated in good faith. That is why the players are calling a bluff, that is why there is a communication break down and so little trust and cooperation between the two sides. This is what drags the league down, it cant move forward if the two sides cant trust each other and work with each other, and its the owners who need to fix this as they are the culprits. They need to be completely honest, open and fair with the players, they need to right the wrongs to create a culture of trust between the two sides. This is not cheap, its easy to break trust, and in their case they profited from that for decades. Its much more expensive to rebuild it, they should have known this back in the earlier days of the league but they were too greedy and were looking only at the money they were making and not the future consequences.

Now its time for them to pay up for their past mistakes, and if they can be genuine about rebuilding trust then maybe the next CBA negotiations will go smoother. Maybe one day both sides will be able to negotiate in good faith, trust each other and come to agreements that offer the greatest benefit to everyone involved without having to wage war.

I have sat on contract negotiations on both sides in the past, I know whats going on and I know exactly how important trust is between both sides. I know how easy it is to lose and how hard it is to re establish. I know how tempting it is for owners to break that trust for a few extra bucks with out thinking about the long term consequences of having that broken trust and how it ends up eating away at their business, how it kills the chance of smooth negotiations, how hard it is to re establish. Its also always the owners, they are the ones with all the numbers, they are the ones who can manipulate them and be dcietful and dishonest, the players/employees simply have to chose to believe the owners are telling the truth or not. If they believe its the truth negotiations are easy as both sides work out a deal that works best for everyone, when they dont believe its thr truth then that when negotiations break down and you get in to a lock out or strike...you cant negotiate a deal without havign numbers that the player/employee side can trust.
/rant

0123456789* is offline  
Old
10-28-2012, 11:33 PM
  #59
CN_paladin
Registered User
 
CN_paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westeros
Posts: 2,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frkinator View Post
You sure know allot about negotiations. Please tell me how exactly can two sides negotiate when one calls a bluff on the other, which happens often in negotiations where there is a culture of mistrust between the two sides. DO YOU KNOW WHY there is a culture of mistrust??? Because the owners in the past have never negotiated in good faith. That is why the players are calling a bluff, that is why there is a communication break down and so little trust and cooperation between the two sides. This is what drags the league down, it cant move forward if the two sides cant trust each other and work with each other, and its the owners who need to fix this as they are the culprits. They need to be completely honest, open and fair with the players, they need to right the wrongs to create a culture of trust between the two sides. This is not cheap, its easy to break trust, and in their case they profited from that for decades. Its much more expensive to rebuild it, they should have known this back in the earlier days of the league but they were too greedy and were looking only at the money they were making and not the future consequences.

Now its time for them to pay up for their past mistakes, and if they can be genuine about rebuilding trust then maybe the next CBA negotiations will go smoother. Maybe one day both sides will be able to negotiate in good faith, trust each other and come to agreements that offer the greatest benefit to everyone involved without having to wage war.

I have sat on contract negotiations on both sides in the past, I know whats going on and I know exactly how important trust is between both sides. I know how easy it is to lose and how hard it is to re establish. I know how tempting it is for owners to break that trust for a few extra bucks with out thinking about the long term consequences of having that broken trust and how it ends up eating away at their business, how it kills the chance of smooth negotiations, how hard it is to re establish. Its also always the owners, they are the ones with all the numbers, they are the ones who can manipulate them and be dcietful and dishonest, the players/employees simply have to chose to believe the owners are telling the truth or not. If they believe its the truth negotiations are easy as both sides work out a deal that works best for everyone, when they dont believe its thr truth then that when negotiations break down and you get in to a lock out or strike...you cant negotiate a deal without havign numbers that the player/employee side can trust.
/rant
Cool but please tell us what does Fehr's delinkage imply? Just so we know you are more informed than Couture and Cullen.

CN_paladin is offline  
Old
10-28-2012, 11:34 PM
  #60
Dado
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Then some open their mouths and speak about things that are not even in the current proposals, like salary roll backs.
Every proposal put forth by the owners has required a salary rollback. They use different words for it, different mechanisms, but the end result is the same - a rollback.

 
Old
10-28-2012, 11:36 PM
  #61
thinkwild
Veni Vidi Toga
 
thinkwild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
Cool but please tell us what does Fehr's delinkage imply? Just so we know you know more informed than Couture and Cullen.
The delinkage implies the players are willing to freeze their salaries, until revenue growth makes their salaries the desired 50% of the subset of revenues the owners have allocated as HRR.

thinkwild is offline  
Old
10-28-2012, 11:38 PM
  #62
CN_paladin
Registered User
 
CN_paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westeros
Posts: 2,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Every proposal put forth by the owners has required a salary rollback. They use different words for it, different mechanisms, but the end result is the same - a rollback.
Why do people think they deserve more than 50 percent of their firm's revenues? Half of the owners operated at a loss.

CN_paladin is offline  
Old
10-28-2012, 11:41 PM
  #63
CN_paladin
Registered User
 
CN_paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westeros
Posts: 2,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild View Post
The delinkage implies the players are willing to freeze their salaries, until revenue growth makes their salaries the desired 50% of the subset of revenues the owners have allocated as HRR.
Yeah the league is so gonna grow another 5 percent this year.

CN_paladin is offline  
Old
10-28-2012, 11:45 PM
  #64
0123456789*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
Cool but please tell us what does Fehr's delinkage imply? Just so we know you are more informed than Couture and Cullen.
You didnt read my post did you? It is none of your business what both sides are offering, that is of no importance to you, me, or anyone not directly involved in the negotiations. I supposed you want to now be the judge of what is fair and what is not without actually having all the information, and without even having a clue as to what information may be accurate and which may be deceitful. Had the NHLPA believed the information the owners presented them with then we would not be in a lockout and we would have a deal.

What I talked about is WHY we are where we are, a third lock out in less then 20 years.

The ONLY reason there is no deal is because the NHLPA does not trust the owners, and the only reason they dont trust them is because they have not negotiated in good faith in the past. Its the owners responsibility to fix this, it wont be cheap but thats what they get for putting this of for so long. Unfortunetly Betmans ego seemed to have gotten the better of him and the league came out with their guns blazing instead of trying to toss the NHLPA a olive branch and trying to "fix' the problems I described, and that they caused.

0123456789* is offline  
Old
10-28-2012, 11:45 PM
  #65
Dado
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
Why do people think they deserve more than 50 percent of their firm's revenues?
They "deserve" whatever they can negotiate for themselves.

 
Old
10-28-2012, 11:51 PM
  #66
bbud
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,662
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Under the previous system, players had 57% of revenues as profit, and were getting substantial raises every year of a CBA where they "lost" (Oh, the horrors of a loss from the player's side). Based on known figures, owners had 3.5% of revenues as profit, and costs are rising every year.

Most of that 3.5% was from a few teams. Most teams lost money, broke even, or relied on the playoffs to make money.

That is an unsustainable system, even with completely even revenue sharing, which will never happen either.

It also makes a player win 100% impossible. It is either take the owner's offer and try and negotiate off of it, or ask for league contraction (which would reduce the revenue totals and make tons of players lose their jobs). And the longer they wait, the more money they lose. Which makes the entire lockout pointless. We all know how this thing ends. It is a matter of how stupid can the players be before they accept.

Which, along with all the other retarded things that the players and NHLPA have done throughout this process (refusing to negotiate last year, twitter comments, proposing things that were already rejected, don't make sense or without doing the math, general stupid comments, etc.), makes fans extremely frustrated with the players.
Disagree the NHL itself was announcing all was well record revenues , no ownership issues and on and on Bettman went about how the NHL was never stronger never better , add to that the contracts GMs proposed and signed id have to say its GB and his own group who are to be looked at with a level of distrust and questioned on their own decisions , i cant say they show themselves as great business men at all really smart business people do not make deals they cannot afford , players are just ticked off dont blame them and most fans i know dont blame the players .

bbud is offline  
Old
10-28-2012, 11:57 PM
  #67
0123456789*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
Why do people think they deserve more than 50 percent of their firm's revenues? Half of the owners operated at a loss.
They are the product... Its like Apple complaining that the cost of manufacturing their iphone is more then 50% of what they can sell it for...in simplistic terms.

The point, the players are the product, if the owners had 95% profit margin then the players, product could, would and should, take 90% of that profit and it would still be a great deal for the owners.

Stop to think about what the revenue sharing break down is, its is irellevant. If the league had a high enough profit margin the share could be 99-1 for the players. If the profit margin was low it could be 1-99 for the owners. The question is what is the profit margin? The problem is the NHLPA does not believe what the owners say it is, and they dont believe them for a combination of reasons, the most important one of all is because they dont trust them because they have been dishonest in the past.

"fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"

0123456789* is offline  
Old
10-28-2012, 11:58 PM
  #68
Master Shake
Registered User
 
Master Shake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kazakhstan
Posts: 1,763
vCash: 500
ticket prices are high as hell and its because of player salaries

Master Shake is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:00 AM
  #69
Dado
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Other way around. Player salaries are high because ticket prices are high as hell.

That's what linkages gets ya...

 
Old
10-29-2012, 12:06 AM
  #70
0123456789*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobotomizer View Post
You really have no idea how labor negotiations work...
trolling much?

I have been part of a negotiating committee on the union side in the past, later on on the management side, and now I am more then a "observer" on both sides for dozens of businesses. I am in unique position.

You should take this as a lesson to the importance of trust between two sides and how hard it is to rebuild once broken, and how destructive it is to not have that trust.

0123456789* is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:07 AM
  #71
Whydidijoin*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbud View Post
Disagree the NHL itself was announcing all was well record revenues , no ownership issues and on and on Bettman went about how the NHL was never stronger never better , add to that the contracts GMs proposed and signed id have to say its GB and his own group who are to be looked at with a level of distrust and questioned on their own decisions , i cant say they show themselves as great business men at all really smart business people do not make deals they cannot afford , players are just ticked off dont blame them and most fans i know dont blame the players .
Record REVENUES. NOT record PROFITS. The difference is everything.

Also, the GMs were forced to run their business under the old CBA. If one team is willing to pay a player something, all GMs are forced to offer the same thing to compete, because the player will just go to the biggest offer. In a system where the majority of the league are entirely dependent on playoff revenues (and/or being a good team) to become profitable, you cannot afford to just not sign the best players, even if you can't afford to sign them at the same time.

Also, no matter what the GMs did, the players still got 57% of revenues, so in terms of the league as a whole, it didn't matter.

Whydidijoin* is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:19 AM
  #72
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,493
vCash: 950
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbud View Post
Disagree the NHL itself was announcing all was well record revenues , no ownership issues and on and on Bettman went about how the NHL was never stronger never better , add to that the contracts GMs proposed and signed id have to say its GB and his own group who are to be looked at with a level of distrust and questioned on their own decisions , i cant say they show themselves as great business men at all really smart business people do not make deals they cannot afford , players are just ticked off dont blame them and most fans i know dont blame the players .
I think the Yotes not having an owner is a huge issue wouldn't you agree ?

It's Bettmans job to grow the league and handle problems quietly , he's not going to come out with a daily laudry list of problems to report to the media .

Also i don't understand the fixation with some fans over who gets paid what , at the end of the day every team has to stay within the cap and it really doesn't make a difference from a fiscal standpoint what each individual player makes .

Also what you and few friends think doesn't really reflect what the majority of the fans belive .


Last edited by hotpaws: 10-29-2012 at 12:25 AM.
hotpaws is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:19 AM
  #73
0123456789*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
ticket prices are high as hell and its because of player salaries



Looking at the ticket price above $10 in 1974 with inflation is $47 today, the problem is that NHL along with most other professional leagues in north america has a revenue growth several times faster then inflation. This is because of a increase in demand due to several factors I wont get in to. So in reality that $10 in the 70's is much more then $47 today, it will be equivalent to several times that.

0123456789* is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:31 AM
  #74
thinkwild
Veni Vidi Toga
 
thinkwild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,266
vCash: 500
I also think its bang on to say there is a trust issue that the owners have caused, have unnecesarily exacerbated when they had a reasonable partner to work with, and that they are going to have to work to fix.

But i dont think its completely accurate to portray players as the product. The NHL game, league, and experience is the product. The players are the talent.

Its interesting that another group that is considered the talent are CEO's. There has been much nashing of teeth recently about why are CEO's worth so much in this time of income disparity. Is it because boards just dont know how to say no and they need to be protected from themselves? And there have been calls from union types for owners and boards to claw back some of the salaries that the talent are negotating.

It feels kind of weird to think of CEO's and NHL players in the same societal pot of the 'talent'.

--
I think if people are going to come to a business of hockey board and make the rather dullard point that revenues are not equal to profits, as if this is some great pearl of enlightenment worthy of sharing here, it is then incumbent on you to actually make a case rather than just hoping that everyone will fill in the facts you are apparently unable to successfully argue and thus are hoping that just repeating this simpleton but irelevant line saves you from. It doesnt.

thinkwild is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:31 AM
  #75
0123456789*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Record REVENUES. NOT record PROFITS. The difference is everything.

Also, the GMs were forced to run their business under the old CBA. If one team is willing to pay a player something, all GMs are forced to offer the same thing to compete, because the player will just go to the biggest offer. In a system where the majority of the league are entirely dependent on playoff revenues (and/or being a good team) to become profitable, you cannot afford to just not sign the best players, even if you can't afford to sign them at the same time.

Also, no matter what the GMs did, the players still got 57% of revenues, so in terms of the league as a whole, it didn't matter.
Once again we dont know the profit margin, so how can you be picking sides.

Second of all in business revenue is more important then you think, and hence the growth in NHL franchise values.

What do you consider more valuable?
A) business with $100 in revenue and $95 in expenses for a $5 profit
B) business with $100,000,000 in revenue and $100,100,000 in expenses for a $100,000 loss?

If you said A you would be very very wrong...

You can think on that one for a bit as it will make you a better person if you can put it all together by your self.

0123456789* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:39 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.