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CBA Negotiations II: This is the song that never ends...

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10-26-2012, 06:33 PM
  #576
Gert B Frobe
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
This is a big market versus small market issue. This is not a players issue. The owners don't have a reasonable position for a lockout.
I definitely believe that. The league owners and Bettman are to blame for a large part of this issue. They expanded too far and now it's proving very difficult to undo.

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10-26-2012, 06:40 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Ask yourself why CSN is paying the Flyers far below market value for their television rights.




This is a big market versus small market issue. This is not a players issue. The owners don't have a reasonable position for a lockout.
A cool example:

You own a ground beef company and a burger joint. So you sell the burger joint your ground beef with very little or no profit so that the burger joint can make more profit.

Snider owns a hockey team and a broadcasting corp. So he sells the rights to broadcast to his hockey team to his own broadcasting corp. with very little or no profit in it so that his broadcasting corp make more profit.

Why would he charge himself MORE money to broadcast the games than he has to?

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10-26-2012, 06:51 PM
  #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
A cool example:

You own a ground beef company and a burger joint. So you sell the burger joint your ground beef with very little or no profit so that the burger joint can make more profit.

Snider owns a hockey team and a broadcasting corp. So he sells the rights to broadcast to his hockey team to his own broadcasting corp. with very little or no profit in it so that his broadcasting corp make more profit.

Why would he charge himself MORE money to broadcast the games than he has to?
Especially at market value when he is capable of doing it himself at cost.

Companies do this all the time.

I merchandised at Petsmart back in the day as a presentation manager. The majority of all non-brand items are different companies (with tons of different names) that are all really just Petsmart.

Iams is Iams. That's brand and they have to sell to get you there and make no money off it (although they rent shelving to companies like Nutro, Blue Buffalo -- who come in and make sure their product is being shown correctly), but they're expected to have it so they do.

But Authority = Petsmart.
Pet Shoppe = Petsmart.
On and on. Anything not name brand, which I would wager is 85% of the store in nonconsumable product.

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10-26-2012, 07:59 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
This is a big market versus small market issue. This is not a players issue. The owners don't have a reasonable position for a lockout.
They have a perfectly reasonable position. The NBA, the NHL's competitor, is paying its employees a smaller percentage of revenue while making considerably more. Same with the NFL. Why shouldn't the split be 50/50 for the NHL?

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10-27-2012, 05:18 AM
  #580
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
A cool example:

You own a ground beef company and a burger joint. So you sell the burger joint your ground beef with very little or no profit so that the burger joint can make more profit.

Snider owns a hockey team and a broadcasting corp. So he sells the rights to broadcast to his hockey team to his own broadcasting corp. with very little or no profit in it so that his broadcasting corp make more profit.

Why would he charge himself MORE money to broadcast the games than he has to?
Not only that, they more he charges to himself, the more he has to pay in Tax. It's not rocket science. Why in the world would he want to give more money to the tax man.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 10-27-2012 at 08:56 AM. Reason: flaming
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10-27-2012, 01:47 PM
  #581
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The owners have a reasonable position for a lockout. If you can't see that, I don't know why you are posting here. Maybe they should just give all of the revenue to the players.
How condescending. People who disagree with you are just as entitled to voice their opinion.

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10-27-2012, 01:57 PM
  #582
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How condescending.
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Snookums, I own my own successful business and have for ten years. Next question?
He isn't the only one that dis-agree's with you either

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10-27-2012, 02:54 PM
  #583
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They have a perfectly reasonable position. The NBA, the NHL's competitor, is paying its employees a smaller percentage of revenue while making considerably more. Same with the NFL. Why shouldn't the split be 50/50 for the NHL?
That's not a good enough reason. Other leagues are doing it so we must do it, too. What is this, grade school?

The owners fought long and hard for the expired CBA. They were the ones who agreed to the current split. They can't cry about the system they created without losing their credibility.

For the record I am not against 50/50. I just don't think the players are greedier than the owners for not wanting to take on all of the burden of paying for the smaller markets.

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10-27-2012, 03:07 PM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post

The owners fought long and hard for the expired CBA. They were the ones who agreed to the current split. They can't cry about the system they created without losing their credibility.
This goes both ways, the players can't talk on and on about how much they gave up last time when they would love nothing more than to keep the current deal. That deal ended up being more player friendly then anybody could have imagined, it's up to both sides to get to the table and figure out a new deal that's fair for both sides.

To me that's a 53-52-50-50-50-50 split, not too concerned over the contracting rights.

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10-27-2012, 03:35 PM
  #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
That's not a good enough reason. Other leagues are doing it so we must do it, too. What is this, grade school?
Yeah good point. Businesses rarely look to what the industry standard is when negotiating deals, especially collective bargaining agreements. Different labor unions outside of the world of sports almost certainly would never look to what other unions are doing and management would never look to what other sectors have done in their collective bargaining agreements. It simply doesn't make sense.

Quote:
The owners fought long and hard for the expired CBA. They were the ones who agreed to the current split. They can't cry about the system they created without losing their credibility.
Another good point. If you negotiate something in the past and fight really hard for it, you lose credibility when you want a better deal at the end of the existing agreement. Everyone knows that once you make a good deal for yourself, it is ridiculous to want a better deal. That is business 101. Do you have an MBA because you are really hitting the nail on the head here with this stuff.

Quote:
For the record I am not against 50/50. I just don't think the players are greedier than the owners for not wanting to take on all of the burden of paying for the smaller markets.
Neither side is greedy. Both sides want a good deal for themselves. It sucks as fans, but this is a business. The owners are not at fault for wanting more, the players are not at fault for wanting to give up more. The problem, in my eyes, is that they didn't start negotiating sooner as to avoid missing games.

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10-27-2012, 04:11 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
He isn't the only one that dis-agree's with you either
LOL @ the apostrophe! Why would I care if someone agrees or disagrees with me, I have my own mind and this is a discussion board. Why do you let everything I say get under your skin so much? No matter what I reply to, there you are to disagree with me.

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10-27-2012, 04:16 PM
  #587
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LOL @ the apostrophe! Why would I care if someone agrees or disagrees with me, I have my own mind and this is a discussion board. Why do you let everything I say get under your skin so much? No matter what I reply to, there you are to disagree with me.
50 word reply and an insult for someone who "doesn't care"

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10-27-2012, 05:36 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe View Post
I definitely believe that. The league owners and Bettman are to blame for a large part of this issue. They expanded too far and now it's proving very difficult to undo.
Just for a point of reference, there are now two franchises that (will) have relocated since the NHL took over the Coyotes. And with each passing event that happens in Glendale, it looks to me they're trying to find whatever way they can to get rid of the Coyotes while keeping their hand clean and getting/keeping as much money as possible.

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10-27-2012, 08:33 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
50 word reply and an insult for someone who "doesn't care"
Not that it matters, but for someone living in the UK, there's just no way people aren't going to chuckle hard when they see your spelling of "disagree" Be a sport and don't resent stuff like that

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10-28-2012, 09:36 PM
  #590
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What is this talk from Eklund about players getting into twitter fights with fans?

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10-28-2012, 09:41 PM
  #591
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What is this talk from Eklund about players getting into twitter fights with fans?
People are calling the players out and the players are responding with idiotic response

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10-28-2012, 09:57 PM
  #592
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People are calling the players out and the players are responding with idiotic response
Specific instances?

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Old
10-28-2012, 10:00 PM
  #593
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Specific instances?
They've been happening for awhile but off the top of my head Paul Bissonnette and Logan Couture have both done it

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10-29-2012, 08:56 AM
  #594
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yeah this kind of effort screams "paycut".

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wAM_o0U9zO0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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Old
10-29-2012, 01:23 PM
  #595
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
yeah this kind of effort screams "paycut".

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wAM_o0U9zO0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Fixed for you.. If you need to know how to post youtube videos, quote my post to see how it's done

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10-29-2012, 03:14 PM
  #596
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yeah this kind of effort screams "paycut".
Yeah, isolated and amplified in hindsight emotional events are great cornerstones to build a well-thought out and lasting business deal on.

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10-29-2012, 09:36 PM
  #597
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Well it sounds like the NHL is ready to cancel the Winter Classic.

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Old
10-29-2012, 10:11 PM
  #598
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Well it sounds like the NHL is ready to cancel the Winter Classic.
Put a fork in the season.....well if they don't get something worked out in the next month at the latest.

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10-29-2012, 10:15 PM
  #599
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I never posted it before..

But apparently the NHL is going to present a new "business model" to the PA this week.. not sure what that means though

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10-30-2012, 05:41 AM
  #600
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I never posted it before..

But apparently the NHL is going to present a new "business model" to the PA this week.. not sure what that means though
Maybe they've decided to hire the russian mob so they can "hammer" out a deal with Fehr...


Hopefully it's a new proposal for a CBA since Fehr is unlikely to present the next one - as it had to be built on the leagues last offer, from what I've heard.

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