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AAA 2012 Draft

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Old
10-28-2012, 06:33 PM
  #51
chaosrevolver
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Raptor is skipped I guess since he missed his first pick?

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10-28-2012, 07:07 PM
  #52
chaosrevolver
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Figured the times out.

The Bulls select a strong skating hard hitting defensive defenseman who had a good shot as well, but definitely focused more on the play in his own end.

Lee Fogolin Sr.

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10-28-2012, 08:07 PM
  #53
tony d
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The St.John's Monsters selects Defenseman Warren Godfrey:



Godfrey was known as a reliable stay at home defenseman and was a mainstay on the Detroit blueline in the mid to late 50's and early 60's.

Next has been pmed.

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10-28-2012, 08:32 PM
  #54
Johnny Engine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
I'll grab a goalie and take John Bouse Hutton


After Martin I think he's the best goalie in this draft. Iain Fyffe has him with a career score of 70.0 compared to Hern's 75.0, Moran's 86.2, and Lesueur's 85.1.

Bouse Hutton backstopped the Silver Seven as they rose to prominence before leaving to play lacrosse professionally. I've found a few articles where Ottawa was still trying to lure him back, unsatisfied with his replacements before LeSueur, so hopefully I can show he wasn't just a bit piece.
He was taken in the MLD.

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10-28-2012, 09:35 PM
  #55
Rob Scuderi
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Wow I'm the worst, it was the ATD! Let's switch that to G Daren Puppa.

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10-28-2012, 09:40 PM
  #56
chaosrevolver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
Wow I'm the worst, it was the ATD! Let's switch that to G Daren Puppa.
Ah..great selection. Really wanted him to fall to my next selection.

He had 2 top-3 finishes in Vezina Voting including one where he finished 2nd to Patrick Roy. Always felt he was underrated because his team sucked so good pick BBS.

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10-28-2012, 09:57 PM
  #57
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Will select tomorrow, was out all weekend and had school work to do today. Sorry for the delay fellas

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10-28-2012, 10:28 PM
  #58
Velociraptor
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Bert Marshall, D



Bill Carson, C


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10-28-2012, 10:48 PM
  #59
Mike Farkas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
Ah..great selection. Really wanted him to fall to my next selection.

He had 2 top-3 finishes in Vezina Voting including one where he finished 2nd to Patrick Roy. Always felt he was underrated because his team sucked so good pick BBS.
My cliff's notes on Burke and Puppa's placements in notable stat categories...

Daren Puppa (Vezina: 2, 3; AS: 2, 5; Hart: 15 - wins: 1, 9; save pct: 2, 3, 6; GAA: 5, 7, 8, 9; SO: 3, 6, 9, 9, 10)

Sean Burke (Vezina: 3, 6, 8; AS: 3, 4, 5; Hart: 4, 8, 12 - Wins: 6, 8, 8; save pct: 3, 6, 8, 9; GAA: 10; SO: 5, 6, 10)

Burke was with Wilf Cude (more or less interchangeable) on a top team in the MLD...so Puppa should be considered pretty highly at this level I have to imagine.

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10-29-2012, 01:25 AM
  #60
seventieslord
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Looks like we are up... actually, our time is up already.

We select Doug Lidster, D.

Lidster was a 900 game, 22 minute defenseman who was solid in all areas and proved he could put up a lot of points when given the PP time, though he wasn't often given it. On three occasions, Lidster was a key defenseman (based on ES+PK TOI) on an elite (top-6) defensive team. Only five players available in this draft can make that claim (a total of 14 have done it twice).

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10-29-2012, 01:50 AM
  #61
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Fort Saskatchewan selects RW Bud Poile


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10-29-2012, 02:15 AM
  #62
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The Steelers is proud to announce our second pick: Al Dewsbury, D


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10-29-2012, 08:56 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
BudsBuster picks, via text message, Ed Olczyk.
The U.S. Hockey Hall of Famer is a solid pick in the AAA draft. "Ed Olczyk played in 1031 NHL games, scoring 342 goals, 452 assists and 794 points."

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10-29-2012, 09:13 AM
  #64
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Macon selects Tom Kurvers, D


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10-29-2012, 10:02 AM
  #65
BudsBuster
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Proud to select Uwe Krupp.

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10-29-2012, 10:03 AM
  #66
tony d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudsBuster View Post
Proud to select Uwe Krupp.
Krupp went in the MLD.

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10-29-2012, 10:05 AM
  #67
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Krupp went in the MLD.
I was like, "that's a good pick!"

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10-29-2012, 10:09 AM
  #68
BudsBuster
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Sorry about that... Frank Eddols.

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10-29-2012, 11:09 AM
  #69
jkrx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
My cliff's notes on Burke and Puppa's placements in notable stat categories...

Daren Puppa (Vezina: 2, 3; AS: 2, 5; Hart: 15 - wins: 1, 9; save pct: 2, 3, 6; GAA: 5, 7, 8, 9; SO: 3, 6, 9, 9, 10)

Sean Burke (Vezina: 3, 6, 8; AS: 3, 4, 5; Hart: 4, 8, 12 - Wins: 6, 8, 8; save pct: 3, 6, 8, 9; GAA: 10; SO: 5, 6, 10)

Burke was with Wilf Cude (more or less interchangeable) on a top team in the MLD...so Puppa should be considered pretty highly at this level I have to imagine.
Puppa was one of my favorite goaltenders of the 90's, stand out guy and a nice person. I get the feeling that he is the Jokinen of goaltenders in this draft but with an even worse playoff record except for that big series with the Sabres when he and Andreychuk were the only ones to show up consistently.

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10-29-2012, 11:28 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudsBuster View Post
Sorry about that... Frank Eddols.
Awesome pick. Really like it.

As BBS will probably tell you, I was a very big proponent of selecting him in the MLD as a 6th defenseman.

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10-29-2012, 11:32 AM
  #71
seventieslord
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no one has really said much about the "dead clock overnight" thing so I haven't been doing it. I admit that following the clock when it's four hours can get to be hectic, and it would be nice if it didn't run for 8 hours a day. but only if you guys want it. If you guys don't mind 2-3 clocks expiring overnight most nights, then we can just keep it running all the time. Please let me know your thoughts.

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10-29-2012, 12:51 PM
  #72
jkrx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
no one has really said much about the "dead clock overnight" thing so I haven't been doing it. I admit that following the clock when it's four hours can get to be hectic, and it would be nice if it didn't run for 8 hours a day. but only if you guys want it. If you guys don't mind 2-3 clocks expiring overnight most nights, then we can just keep it running all the time. Please let me know your thoughts.
It doesn't matter to me or Hobnobs but I guess that is dosen't surprise anyone.

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10-29-2012, 01:17 PM
  #73
Mike Farkas
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My first pick, the last of the second round is:

D, Dan Hamhuis



Coming off of an excellent season, Hamhuis has quietly become of the league's most efficient, sturdy defenseman. Known for his defensive mastery, Hamhuis went on to set career highs in assists (33) and points (37) in 2011-12. Even as a rookie, Hamhuis has never logged less than 21 minutes per game in his career and his 22:22 career ATOI (22:58 in the playoffs) through 629 games ranks highly among remaining draftees. Over the past two seasons combined, only Dan Hamhuis (+58) and future HHOFer Zdeno Chara (+66) have been plus-50 or better.

My second pick, the first of the third round is:

C, John Cullen



Not much in the way of 100-point scorers left. In fact, his offensive resume at his peak is tough to top right now. A terrific playmaker, the right-handed Cullen had three consecutive point-per-game or better seasons between Pittsburgh and Hartford. The two-time All-Star finished 5th in points in 1991. Unfortunately, Cullen's career was derailed by cancer in the late 1990's requiring chemotherapy and a bone marrow transplant that left the player in disrepair, despite a valiant effort to return to the NHL.

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10-29-2012, 02:32 PM
  #74
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Pround to select Bob Lorimer, D. 2 rings and a solid stay at home guy.


Last edited by seventieslord: 10-29-2012 at 02:38 PM.
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10-29-2012, 02:37 PM
  #75
seventieslord
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Comments on Round 1 picks:

Seth Martin: It's difficult to see how he's not the best goalie in the draft, and also the best player. Comparing goalies to forwards this far down is difficult, but Martin stood above all other available goalies in a way that no other positional player even approached.

Eddie Olczyk: It's strange that chaos didn't like the pick at first. I don't see what's not to like. He wasn't a bad all-around player, and his 5-6 best seasons are right in line with about 9 other guys who are all good 1st line centers in this. There is very little separating this group and I think he's in it. he's not one of the first few I'd have personally taken, but that's me splitting hairs.

Don Raleigh: Absolutely the best pre-expansion center available. Percentage scores miles ahead of the next best guy. And he didn't benefit from better linemates either, from the looks of things. Also had an epic playoff.

Pelle Eklund: Did he do a lot outside of the NHL (before age 22 and after age 30) that I'm not aware of? His NHL numbers are decent. But not great either. Not a line killer (I had him top-20 for post-expansion NHL scoring centers), but a good step behind the Olczyks and Jokinens of this draft.

Dutch Reibel: I would not call him the best offensive center of the draft. His record isn't as good as Raleigh's, and he played with Howe and Lindsay. It's true that in his best season he matched Howe's worst season. I'm not saying he's horrible either. There's a time to take him, and this draft was almost certainly that time. I do have a hard time separating him from Howe though. His claim to fame is that for three seasons he played with Howe and scored at 75% of Howe's rate.

Josef Malecek: Anyone? Your guess is as good as mine. Is there any point of reference we can use to understand what his NHL-level offensive potential may have been? This guy may be outstanding or he may be garbage; I just don't know. Seems like the same problem with Zabrodsky, only further magnified.

Robert Reichel: Not much to say. He belongs in the Olczyk tier. Like his regular season offensive record. Like that he got a bit of a two-way game later in his career. Don't like his softness. hate his playoff production. Love his international career.

Haviland Routh: I like him, but he wasn't even first on my list of pre-NHL wingers. Obviously we don't have much to go by other than Total Hockey, and that always troubles me.

Bert Marshall: One of the "900 game, 22 minute" crowd of all-around blueliners I was interested in, heading into this draft. A solid player and a good defensive conscience to a first pairing here.

Herb Carnegie: Again, a guy who is really difficult to rate, but I'd lean towards that he wasn't that great. There was a discussion not too long ago on the SIHR yahoogroup and a closer look at his senior career suggests he was just a very good player at that level, and not a dominant, "omg, what if he was in the NHL??" kind of player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Ledoux
I have a QHL Guide 1955-56 with top 5 scorers for every season and Carnegie doesn't appear once.
I do not see him listed under any individual award either.
Carnegie was 3 time MVP with Sherbrooke in QPHL and not QSHL
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Martel
In 1945-46, with Sherbrooke, he finished second (by 4 points, 79 to 75) to Tony Demers in the QPHL, who had broken his leg with 6 games left in the season.

Now, in his autobiography, A Fly in a Pail of Milk, Carnegie is extremely sour towards Demers because of this. He claims that Demers was still accumulating points in games played by his team (St. Hyacinthe) while he was in his hospital bed.

I checked this, and found no evidence to corroborate the claim. Demers' injury was well documented in the local papers, and he already had 79 points, very far ahead of Carnegie at that point. With the 6 games (give or take) that he had left to play, Carnegie got closer to Demers, but only made it as far as 75 points.

That season, the player who came in third in scoring, Gerry Plamondon, had 70 points. He did have an NHL career, but a very modest one, playing only 74 NHL games and getting 7 goals and 13 assists for 20 points.

The guys who came in 4th and 5th, Armand Bourdon and Maurice Bastien, never made it to the NHL.

The previous season, with Shawinigan (also in the QPHL), Carnegie had come in in sixth position among the scorers with 54 points, just over half the points (101) that the top scorer, Rosario Joanette, got. Joanette played 2 games in the NHL.

In 1946-47, still in the QPHL, he finished third in scoring with 83 points (tied with two others, actually), way behind Kelly Burnett (115 pts) and Bill Meronek (102 poins).

Burnett played 3 NHL games. Meronek played 19. The other players who got 83 points, Armand Dufault and Ray Marshall, never made it to the NHL.

In 1947-48, he finally led the league in points, with 127. It's worth noting that the top four scorers were all from the Sherbrooke team. The second scorer was Adjutor Côté, with 123 points (never made the NHL), the third was Armand Bourdon (mentioned earlier, never in the NHL) and the fourth was Tony Demers, so far the best NHLer of all players mentioned, with 83 NHL games, 20 goals and 22 assists, for 42 points. The fifth scorer was the previously mentioned Kelly Burnett (3 NHL games).

In 1948-49, now in the QSHL, despite missing only one game, Carnegie finished 18th among the scorers. He would never get higher than 14th after that.

In 1949-50, Carnegie was now with the Quebec Aces. He finished 16th among scorers, also having only missed one game.

In 1950-51, still with the Aces, but now in the QMHL, Carnegie finished 14th among scorers. He missed 3 games.

In 1951-52, same team and same league, and now a teammate of Jean Béliveau, he finished 17th among scorers. Béliveau finished first and, yes, he did make it to the NHL. That same year, Carnegie played all five games of the Alexander Cup and didn't get a single point.
The top six scorers were his teammates, with Béliveau being first, with 11 points.

In 1952-53, still same team and same league, and still a teammate of Béliveau, he was 51st among scorers.

His last season, 1953-54, was with the Owen Sound Mercurys of the SOHA. He finished 16th among scorers. The top scorer was his teammate Tom Burlington, who never played in the NHL
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Matthew
Thank you for this comprehensive breakdown of Herb Carnegie's career.

Now statistics are not everything but to me it is not clear cut that he would have played in the NHL if he were white, as I have heard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe
He probably could have played, but it seems he wouldn't have been a star.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Martel
The "World Wide Hockey Hall of Fame", which counts several SIHR members among its committee (perhaps I should use the past, as the WWHHoF seems to have ceased its activities in 2007), voted Herb Carnegie into its honoured members under the "Oldtimers" section, for the 1990 year. The rules of the WWHHoF are not clear regarding who can be elected in the Oldtimers section, however once they are elected, they become "Honoured members" and are (seemingly) not distinguished from the players who were elected shortly after their retirement.

The WWHHoF does not explain why it voted for Carnegie, but maybe some members could share some of the discussions that surrounded his election? Carnegie was not nominated for the years that followed his retirement. He was first nominated for the 1989 year, coming on top of the "Oldtimers" category but without enough votes to be elected. He even came in front of Ken Reardon, who had been getting more than 10 votes per year since 1973 (it takes 15 to get elected). Interesting to note that Reardon continued to get 10 or more votes every year up until the 2004 year, but never got elected.

On the other side, Carnegie got 17 votes (to Reardon's 13) in his second year on the ballot and thus was honoured by the WWHHoF.

Together with Jean-Claude Tremblay, he's the only North American honoured by the WWHHoF but not by the "official" HHoF.

I'm curious why he was not nominated for the 1959 and subsequent years (i.e. 5 years after his retirement) or why the group waited until 1989 to put him on their nomination list, and then I'm also curious how come (having never been nominated before) he immediately came out on top of the voting in his category.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe
It is a good illustration of the fact that a player's stat line cannot be interpreted in isolation. By themselves certain scoring totals can seem very impressive, but if you look at the league as a whole and find that many players put up such numbers, it indicates the numbers aren't so impressive after all.

It's quite possible that Carnegie was never given a look due to his skin colour - but that doesn't mean that had he been given a serious chance, he would have been a star in the NHL.
Geoff Sanderson: He was right there at the top of my list for scoring wingers, just behind Sykora. Those two, and maybe two others, stand out above all the rest available.

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