HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Keep Burke or not if it was your choice?

View Poll Results: Ye or Na
Yes 155 71.43%
No 62 28.57%
Voters: 217. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-29-2012, 11:58 AM
  #176
Leafsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,521
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Your a season ticket holder, so did you get a Larry Tanenbaum apology letter in your season ticket renewal package?

If not Tanenbaum's letter read as follows.



Tanenbaum in his own words, used the word "only" in his results oriented speech.

How do you interpret the owners own words for the average fan to understand?
Are you arguing that Burke shoudl be here or the team did poorly. I believe the debate is wether or not Burke should be here so not sure why that letter is relevant. You aren't going to find many people who disagree with the Leafs doing poorly last year but many people who would argue to keep Burke despite of it. Inlcuding Tannenbaum himself.

Leafsman is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:00 PM
  #177
diceman934
Registered User
 
diceman934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NHL player factory
Posts: 6,318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
GM's are also alloted time to implement their plan and grow their team. Otherwise we'd see no GM last longer than a year.

A GM is evaluated on performance but only after a suitable length of time which depends on the situation he inherited. Marlies and other non-NHLers do impact the standings of the Leafs, though you can't see past your own stubborn short-sightedness to see that. You want every move Burke makes to win now while Burke is trying to win when the time is right to win and ensure the winning continues.
When you look at the Marlies and their success or non success from the NHL prospective you are only looking at one item: Is there players of quality to take roster spots at the NHL level that will improve the NHL team......

If you look at the Marlies.....who are the players that will come in a make a difference?

At this point we have little in the way of Pieces on the Marlies that can make a difference. That is the issue.

diceman934 is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:03 PM
  #178
ACC1224
Steelers 3 - 3
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 28,743
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Your a season ticket holder, so did you get a Larry Tanenbaum apology letter in your season ticket renewal package?

If not Tanenbaum's letter read as follows.



Tanenbaum in his own words, used the word "only" in his results oriented speech.

How do you interpret the owners own words for the average fan to understand?
Those words are for the average fan. Pretty straightforward, nothing to interpret.

ACC1224 is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:07 PM
  #179
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 60,454
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorityRules View Post
Pretty confident that he'll get fired aren't ya?

I'll be you he not only finishes off his contract, he'll get an extension. Only short-sighted fans are looking to see him canned. Are you one of those?
I used the key word "IF" he doesn't get results soon in my belief that time is ticking and patience waning from both Ownership and the Fan base alike. Lost playoff revenue year after year is not a desirable advantageous proposition for Ownership, nor enjoyable for an ever increasing fan base to endure.

I don't expect another public apology letter to be coming from MLSE, without internal action taken to back up their claim that they desire better results for the loyal Leaf fan base. You can't keep saying you're sorry, without backing it up, is simply empty promises.

Players have been changed, coach has been changed, management team expanded as has the scouting resources and now its time that those actions bear fruit.. Accountability for the teams performance on the ice and in the standings now lie squarely on the shoulders of the GM.

He controls his own fate, however more of the same results will result in his termination. Along this current bottom 10 finishes path of failure, its only a matter of time until the clock runs out. IMO

__________________
Signature: There is no greater demonstration of Fan patience then to suggest to "Play the Kids " and be willing to accept the consequences of those actions..
Mess is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:08 PM
  #180
New Liskeard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,866
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Support bush!

Errr

i mean burke!
Burke is a Democrat, not sure what you are trying to reach for here.

New Liskeard is online now  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:10 PM
  #181
ForSpareParts*
agreement
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,904
vCash: 500
Confirmed with link: "Burke's head stuck in sand"

http://www.thestar.com/sports

Toronto writers report on the low points of Toronto's 4 major sports franchises:

Feschuk:

"One might assume the Leafs would have spent the last six months repairing the huge holes in the roster. And yet Burke, who spoke in April of a need to retool the talent...has done next to nothing of the sort."

ForSpareParts* is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:13 PM
  #182
Leafsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,521
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
When you look at the Marlies and their success or non success from the NHL prospective you are only looking at one item: Is there players of quality to take roster spots at the NHL level that will improve the NHL team......

If you look at the Marlies.....who are the players that will come in a make a difference?

At this point we have little in the way of Pieces on the Marlies that can make a difference. That is the issue.
Kadri, Holzer, McKegg (One of my fav's), Colborne, Blacker, Scrivens. I am also certain Ross and Devane who should be on the Marlies will make the NHL.

Leafsman is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:14 PM
  #183
New Liskeard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,866
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
When you look at the Marlies and their success or non success from the NHL prospective you are only looking at one item: Is there players of quality to take roster spots at the NHL level that will improve the NHL team......

If you look at the Marlies.....who are the players that will come in a make a difference?

At this point we have little in the way of Pieces on the Marlies that can make a difference. That is the issue.
The same Marlies team that were finaists for the Calder Cup last year? Very weak and sad.

New Liskeard is online now  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:19 PM
  #184
ForSpareParts*
agreement
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,904
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
http://www.thestar.com/sports

Toronto writers report on the low points of Toronto's 4 major sports franchises:

Feschuk:

"One might assume the Leafs would have spent the last six months repairing the huge holes in the roster. And yet Burke, who spoke in April of a need to retool the talent...has done next to nothing of the sort."
This thread had nothing to do with Extending Burke or firing him. This had to do with the low point in our franchises and how far the leafs are from turning it around.

Please reinstate the thread.

ForSpareParts* is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:26 PM
  #185
Leafsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,521
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
This thread had nothing to do with Extending Burke or firing him. This had to do with the low point in our franchises and how far the leafs are from turning it around.

Please reinstate the thread.
What was the title of the thread again??

Leafsman is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:28 PM
  #186
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 60,454
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
GM's are also alloted time to implement their plan and grow their team. Otherwise we'd see no GM last longer than a year.

A GM is evaluated on performance but only after a suitable length of time which depends on the situation he inherited. Marlies and other non-NHLers do impact the standings of the Leafs, though you can't see past your own stubborn short-sightedness to see that. You want every move Burke makes to win now while Burke is trying to win when the time is right to win and ensure the winning continues.
Agreed

He has 2 years remaining on his contract, and he is entering season 5 of his tenure. Now the question becomes how much time is left?

A GM's job is to balance current success with future success simultaneously to retain his job.

Case in point .. Former Hawks GM Dale Tallon drafted Toews, Keith and Kane for Chicago, and his replacement Stan Bowman won the Cup after his dismissal. LA GM Dave Taylor drafted Jonathan Quick, Dustin Brown and Kopitar for LA but was released for the teams struggles, only to have new GM Lombardi hoist the Stanley Cup on the back of his future work. Previous GMs brought in eventual Conn Smythe winners for his team, but didn't get to enjoy the rewards as time ran out. Time ran out for these GMs and stock piling the prospect pool didn't save them, because current team performance resulted in their dismissal.

Time is at the discretion of Ownership who control the fate of the GM and evaluate his performance on an annual basis, and decide if he is meeting their expectations and achieving their goals. Since the standard goal of any season is playoffs and competing for the Stanley Cup, its safe to say Burke is not meeting those in Toronto.


Last edited by Mess: 10-29-2012 at 01:10 PM.
Mess is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:32 PM
  #187
Pilgore88
Registered User
 
Pilgore88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: East Coast
Posts: 4,050
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
Kadri, Holzer, McKegg (One of my fav's), Colborne, Blacker, Scrivens. I am also certain Ross and Devane who should be on the Marlies will make the NHL.
I think he meant that there are no guys down there who will come up and be difference makers. Ya, some of those guys will make the NHL, but will any really be difference makers? If they make the NHL, they will be 40 or so point forwards, (with maybe an exception to Kadri), and second to bottom pairing dmen.

They will just be replacing the guys the leafs already have who fill those roles.

Leafs need a legit top line guy, not more middling players who replace the middling players they already have.

Rielly looks to be that type of player on the back end, and hopefully they are able to grab another this year.

Pilgore88 is online now  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:43 PM
  #188
diceman934
Registered User
 
diceman934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NHL player factory
Posts: 6,318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
The same Marlies team that were finaists for the Calder Cup last year? Very weak and sad.
Who said they are weak and sad?

They are and were a good AHL team. Many vets to help. Just who were the leading scorers last year? The top players ( skaters ) from last year are not in the Leafs plans. What I'm saying is that the Leafs Prospects were not leading the Marlie's. That is the issue.

diceman934 is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 12:47 PM
  #189
diceman934
Registered User
 
diceman934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NHL player factory
Posts: 6,318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
I think he meant that there are no guys down there who will come up and be difference makers. Ya, some of those guys will make the NHL, but will any really be difference makers? If they make the NHL, they will be 40 or so point forwards, (with maybe an exception to Kadri), and second to bottom pairing dmen.

They will just be replacing the guys the leafs already have who fill those roles.

Leafs need a legit top line guy, not more middling players who replace the middling players they already have.

Rielly looks to be that type of player on the back end, and hopefully they are able to grab another this year.

Thanks, exactly what I meant.

diceman934 is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 01:08 PM
  #190
Leafsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,521
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
I think he meant that there are no guys down there who will come up and be difference makers. Ya, some of those guys will make the NHL, but will any really be difference makers? If they make the NHL, they will be 40 or so point forwards, (with maybe an exception to Kadri), and second to bottom pairing dmen.

They will just be replacing the guys the leafs already have who fill those roles.

Leafs need a legit top line guy, not more middling players who replace the middling players they already have.

Rielly looks to be that type of player on the back end, and hopefully they are able to grab another this year.
I know what he meant. Your right that they're just going to be replacing players but they're better replacements which is what we are striving for, aren't we? Not everyone has to be a difference maker.

We have Lupul. Kessel, Gardiner and Grabo who I believe are difference makers. The jury is still out on Kadri and I believe McKegg is a darkhorse but I have a feeling he is going to be an amazing player.

Devane >>>>> Rosehill/Orr
Ross>>>>>> Armstrong/Brown
Holzer >>>>>> Komi
Kadri >>>>> Bozak
McKegg >>>>>>>>>> MacArthur

Blacker I am not sure who he'll replace or what he'll end up being but he will be a part of the team.

Colborne even if he falls to the third line will contribute and I forgot Ashton who will also be a great 2nd/3rd line tweener.

Not to mention the players that aren't even on the Marlies like Percy, Reilly, Finn, Broll, Leivo and Biggs.

I mean look at all that potential. Sure a small percentage will be difference makers but all combined they'll make a huge difference. Burke isn;t even done yet and the future is looking bright.

Leafsman is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 01:17 PM
  #191
ForSpareParts*
agreement
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,904
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
I know what he meant. Your right that they're just going to be replacing players but they're better replacements which is what we are striving for, aren't we? Not everyone has to be a difference maker.

We have Lupul. Kessel, Gardiner and Grabo who I believe are difference makers. The jury is still out on Kadri and I believe McKegg is a darkhorse but I have a feeling he is going to be an amazing player.

Devane >>>>> Rosehill/Orr
Ross>>>>>> Armstrong/Brown
Holzer >>>>>> Komi
Kadri >>>>> Bozak
McKegg >>>>>>>>>> MacArthur

Blacker I am not sure who he'll replace or what he'll end up being but he will be a part of the team.

Colborne even if he falls to the third line will contribute and I forgot Ashton who will also be a great 2nd/3rd line tweener.p
Not to mention the players that aren't even on the Marlies like Percy, Reilly, Finn, Broll, Leivo and Biggs.

I mean look at all that potential. Sure a small percentage will be difference makers but all combined they'll make a huge difference. Burke isn;t even done yet and the future is looking bright.

">" is a really poor/teenage way of measuring a players' worth. What does that mean? McKegg is 10 times the player MacArthur is, or has 10 times more potential? Is he the next Wayne Gretzky or something? Until he actually plays an NHL game he is far less superior than MacArthur.

ForSpareParts* is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 01:21 PM
  #192
Bullsmith
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,171
vCash: 500
It seems obvious to me that Burke is in place for this season. The team's under new ownership and I'd expect the to review his status after it's over, when he has one year remaining on his contract. There is no reason on earth for them to either rush to replace him or to consider extending him before that.

I'd argue that for ownership, Burke's contract situation right now is ideal. They can take this season to make the transition into their new ownership structure, whatever that may, be and still be in a position to evaluate Burke with a full year left on his contract. They control him but aren't on the hook for years of future payments if they decide to replace him. If they decide to keep him they're in a position to extend him well before he hits the open market.

Bullsmith is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 01:42 PM
  #193
-DeMo-
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Huntsville Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,320
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to -DeMo-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
I know what he meant. Your right that they're just going to be replacing players but they're better replacements which is what we are striving for, aren't we? Not everyone has to be a difference maker.

We have Lupul. Kessel, Gardiner and Grabo who I believe are difference makers. The jury is still out on Kadri and I believe McKegg is a darkhorse but I have a feeling he is going to be an amazing player.

Devane >>>>> Rosehill/Orr
Ross>>>>>> Armstrong/Brown
Holzer >>>>>> Komi
Kadri >>>>> Bozak
McKegg >>>>>>>>>> MacArthur

Blacker I am not sure who he'll replace or what he'll end up being but he will be a part of the team.

Colborne even if he falls to the third line will contribute and I forgot Ashton who will also be a great 2nd/3rd line tweener.

Not to mention the players that aren't even on the Marlies like Percy, Reilly, Finn, Broll, Leivo and Biggs.

I mean look at all that potential. Sure a small percentage will be difference makers but all combined they'll make a huge difference. Burke isn;t even done yet and the future is looking bright.
great so we have 2 players who can replace 4th liners and 2 guys who can replace 3rd liners and a guy who can replace a 7th dmen awsome! oh but not this year right.

-DeMo- is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 01:45 PM
  #194
Happy Fan
nifty
 
Happy Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,250
vCash: 500
He's doing a great job bringing in star players and youth, its clearly only a matter of time until we go back to our former glory days of being perennial playoff contenders.

Happy Fan is online now  
Old
10-29-2012, 01:48 PM
  #195
thom
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,026
vCash: 500
I don't agree with Brian Burk's politics but along with Guy Lafleur thank-you for supporting our troops it means a lot to them

thom is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 01:48 PM
  #196
Leafsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,521
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
great so we have 2 players who can replace 4th liners and 2 guys who can replace 3rd liners and a guy who can replace a 7th dmen awsome! oh but not this year right.
Well, 2 for the 4th, 1 for the third and likely 1 for the 2nd. We already have 2 for the first and one for the 2nd. All holes have to be replaced doesn't matter how vital. You want to win you have to upgrade everything and looking at it, Burke is accomplishing that.

As far as Holzer for Komi. true he is replacing a 7th dman. But in replacing him he will def not be the 7th dman and bring to the role what Komi couldn't.


Last edited by Leafsman: 10-29-2012 at 01:55 PM.
Leafsman is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 01:53 PM
  #197
Leafsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,521
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
">" is a really poor/teenage way of measuring a players' worth. What does that mean? McKegg is 10 times the player MacArthur is, or has 10 times more potential? Is he the next Wayne Gretzky or something? Until he actually plays an NHL game he is far less superior than MacArthur.
I apologize that my methods don;t live up to yor high standards or the high standards seen in these boards. I am deeply shamed and will fall on my sword immediately.

I meant it to signify imrovement.

Isn't it all speculation at this point. Have you not speculated quite a bit yourself. Writing off a player is no less speculatiion that believing in the player. I believe McKegg will be an improvement over MacArthur. You can speculate all you want that he won't but again your only speculating.

Leafsman is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 01:54 PM
  #198
7even
Moderator
Deus Ex Machina
 
7even's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Georgia
Country: United States
Posts: 8,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
Hey guys, just a question. I know you are really pleased with Kessel, and he is a fantastic offensive talent. But would you guys prefer: Kessel Rielly Going into the future? Or: Seguin Hamilton Reilly? Or alternatively, what might have occured: Seguin Hamilton Galchenyuk? Of those three options, which would you prefer to build the future with? (It's a tricky question because they're all so young, but just taking into account what you know up to this point).
False dilemma go troll someone else's board.

7even is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 02:04 PM
  #199
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,004
vCash: 500
I'm completely fine with Burke being the GM as long as he has learned the lesson of not trying to "fast track," luckily, we still got a PPG player out of the trade.

Burke can only do so much. At one point or another there has to be accountability towards the players too. We had a good enough team to make the playoffs last year..at about 3/4 through the season, our chances of making the playoffs were well above 90%.

How can anyone blame Burke for the collapse last year? He did everything in his power to ice a team that can make the playoffs.

The only thing I don't like about Burke is the fact that he realized a year or two late that Ron Wilson is not a coach you can win the Cup with. His wins as a coach are because of longevity not because he is a great coach.

If we don't make the playoffs in the next 2 years (1 year if the lockout lasts the entire season) then he should be fired, otherwise, no.

Pi is offline  
Old
10-29-2012, 04:12 PM
  #200
4evaBlue
Registered User
 
4evaBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,380
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
That's how we ended up with Tim Connolly, isn't it?
Gonna whine about a 2 year stopgap contract? Really?

4evaBlue is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:49 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.