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So who is bummed about the lockout? II

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10-28-2012, 06:05 AM
  #126
forthewild
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about the only thing i agree with union is the contracts being honored, now obviously as games are actually lost (ie, when deal is struck how many games are not played) it will effect them.

however i feel that if players started offering solutions to this from get go it would have gone far smoother. (say what Fehr said in splitting contracts, or deferring payments, or something along those lines)

also i was thinking what really set the tone for this negotiation, and i believe it was PA turning down the re-alignment.

what i think the PA should have done is said something like
"while it is not part of the CBA that the PA is part of the decision making process on this matter we appreciate that the Owners included us in the decision, we are happy to approve it seeing as it will help drive competition and growth by better serving fans of our league"

but given how the PA tried to whip the snake around flaunting it, i think the owners said we'll play ball and go hardline

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10-28-2012, 11:12 AM
  #127
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yeah, my memory wasn't too clear on the re-alignment issue but I thought it was the PA who sort of killed that one with the idea in mind that they could leverage it in negotiations. Not cool.

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10-28-2012, 11:17 AM
  #128
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Thats another thing. They do that and they are still leaving players out to dry (Winnipeg). They alienated some players before lockout started.

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10-28-2012, 11:20 AM
  #129
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They alienated a whole team of players before negotiations even started. Winnipeg had long road streaks that many Eastern teams never have to go through. They were lucky the league schedulers did a great job of limiting the miles on them.

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10-28-2012, 07:32 PM
  #130
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That charity game is tonight, right? While it's good to see the money donated, I hope all the players trip on their skate laces.

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10-28-2012, 07:56 PM
  #131
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would be nice if the charity game was on tv ^_^

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10-28-2012, 08:46 PM
  #132
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Allan Walsh is winning this week's "Are You ****ing Kidding Me" with his EPL rant.

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10-28-2012, 09:08 PM
  #133
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Interesting that Suter is now having second thoughts about some of his comments regarding Leipold......

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10-28-2012, 09:22 PM
  #134
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Does any of it matter at this point? None of it is going to get the main players to sit down at a table and hammer out an agreement any faster or slower.

I'm rapidly losing my ability to care as this drags out.

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10-29-2012, 08:52 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHL1674 View Post
Interesting that Suter is now having second thoughts about some of his comments regarding Leipold......
see Toews did it right, he didn't go after the guy who's at fault which is the same guy who signs his pay stub, he went after the goat which is Bettman.

the only way to go after owners is their demand for immediate reduction, because "future share is smaller" is stupid, as revenue grows players will make a killing, they will make more money.

Suter is going to be set for his entire life*, also the very owner who he went after structured his deal so he is protected form the lockout, he wants to ***** then be Backstrom (6million in pay that is at risk of not being paid to him)

all in all Suter is going to hate it here in 2 years, when he's 7.5million cap hit playing number two to Brodin

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10-29-2012, 10:31 AM
  #136
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i think avder lost the rage and someone else found it

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10-29-2012, 10:31 AM
  #137
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This whole gongshow reminds me of politics. Strong opinions, cherry picking facts to suit your argument, general ridiculousness...

Funny that the first time I heard Suter spoke up, I knew he was going to be ripped to shreds. The first time I heard he pulled back on the comments, I knew he was going to be ripped to shreds.

Might as well just burn his jerseys now, you guys.

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10-29-2012, 10:46 AM
  #138
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I get that the players are pissed, but their representative basically turned in a crayon drawing for a final term paper.

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10-29-2012, 11:00 AM
  #139
Avder
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The problem is that both sides are being jerked around by their respective elites. The richest owners are probably keeping the league from agreeing to honor their existing contracts or set up meaningful revenue sharing, and the richest players are holding the union up from compromising on existing contracts.

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10-29-2012, 11:30 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
yeah, my memory wasn't too clear on the re-alignment issue but I thought it was the PA who sort of killed that one with the idea in mind that they could leverage it in negotiations. Not cool.
It was the PA that killed with a sorry excuse of; "We don't see how this would reduce travel." Even Nick Schultz, the Wild's rep at the time, was spewing the same line...

Hell, I did quick math on that and it would have reduced travel expenses across the board for every division...

I don't want to dig through the archives, but I also believe I got flamed for saying (then) that the PA just fired the first shot in the impending lockout...

/shrug

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10-29-2012, 11:35 AM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avder View Post
The problem is that both sides are being jerked around by their respective elites. The richest owners are probably keeping the league from agreeing to honor their existing contracts or set up meaningful revenue sharing, and the richest players are holding the union up from compromising on existing contracts.
I don't think so, at least on the owners part...

The only dissenting voice that I would imagine in the 29 owner situation would be Ed Snider. He stands to lose more money, as part of Comcast, than the rest of the league combined. However, he is also the richest owner, so I also doubt that he gives much of a damn about losing a bit of cash this season since his organization recoups that loss in year 11 of the NBC deal.

Those that say that the owners are fractured (i.e. Allan Walsh) are complete delusional ****tards. If you put any of the "suggestions" from the NHLPA in front of the BoG to vote, my money would be on a unanimous denial of acceptance.

Meanwhile, if you put the last NHL proposal in front of the entire NHLPA membership for a vote, I would put money on it passing acceptance by 65%...

You only need 60% of the majority to accept and over rule the union boss... Just saying...

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10-29-2012, 11:46 AM
  #142
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NHLPA killed the realignment because they wanted a bargaining chip for the new CBA.

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10-29-2012, 12:23 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
NHLPA killed the realignment because they wanted a bargaining chip for the new CBA.
which is actually kind of funny because they wold have had it, lower travel expenses would have been a great argument vs the NHL no? instead this way NHL can rightfully claim not only travel expenses going up but also less revenue growth (ya know people not staying up till 11pm for a game to begin)

also think about it, 3 home gaves vs Jets,Hawks,Wings,Blues is probably better gate revenue for MN overall.

that was a total fumble on their part, uncalled for and stupid move to flaunt size and who's got the pants in the relationship.

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10-29-2012, 12:31 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
NHLPA killed the realignment because they wanted a bargaining chip for the new CBA.
And by doing it with the level of clear ******** in their reasoning... It was clear where the relationship was going...

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10-29-2012, 01:10 PM
  #145
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Would realignment have increased or decreased travel expenses? Is it all Winnipeg in the SE that's throwing it off? I thought there would have been more travel for the East teams.

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10-29-2012, 01:37 PM
  #146
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I don't think so, at least on the owners part...

The only dissenting voice that I would imagine in the 29 owner situation would be Ed Snider. He stands to lose more money, as part of Comcast, than the rest of the league combined. However, he is also the richest owner, so I also doubt that he gives much of a damn about losing a bit of cash this season since his organization recoups that loss in year 11 of the NBC deal.

Those that say that the owners are fractured (i.e. Allan Walsh) are complete delusional ****tards. If you put any of the "suggestions" from the NHLPA in front of the BoG to vote, my money would be on a unanimous denial of acceptance.

Meanwhile, if you put the last NHL proposal in front of the entire NHLPA membership for a vote, I would put money on it passing acceptance by 65%...

You only need 60% of the majority to accept and over rule the union boss... Just saying...
I dunno, I think there are plenty of owners with good reason to want the season to start, and quickly. Leipold wouldn't have offered 10% interest (which is like an unheard of amount) if he thought the lockout was going to be a long haul. He has a very vested interest in getting games going before those 5,000 new STHs drop their plans. LA has to be looking to carry their momentum after the Cup run; they're on the verge of breaking out into the big-time markets. That goes doubly for Florida, and actually lots of the struggling small markets (Phoenix, Florida, Columbus, Dallas) might not survive a lost year.

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10-29-2012, 01:38 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Would realignment have increased or decreased travel expenses? Is it all Winnipeg in the SE that's throwing it off? I thought there would have been more travel for the East teams.
Lower average and much lower standard deviation, but at the expense of some coddled Eastern teams travelling more.

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10-29-2012, 01:39 PM
  #148
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It's in everyone's best interest for the season to start now AND for the realignment to occur. But that's not how negotiations work, unfortunately. Fehr needs to know he can't just play chicken and stand on principle while his guys lose money.

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10-29-2012, 01:56 PM
  #149
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It's in everyone's best interest for the season to start now AND for the realignment to occur. But that's not how negotiations work, unfortunately. Fehr needs to know he can't just play chicken and stand on principle while his guys lose money.
Problem is that there is no turning back now that his guys have already lost more money than they can make up.

Zero chance of a season this year imho. Canceling the winter classic will seal the deal on thurday.

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10-29-2012, 02:12 PM
  #150
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Realignment makes so much sense that the players just looked like jerks blocking it. They did do it for negotiation reasons.

The new conferences made all the sense in the world.

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