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CBA Talk II: Shut up and give me YOUR money!

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10-26-2012, 08:48 PM
  #176
ProstheticConscience
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It's really depressing reading the Business board right now. I have no idea how the hell anybody can support the NHL owners and Bettman. All these guys know how to do is spend themselves into a hole, blame the players, shut down the league like little kids holding their collective breath, and there's an entire board full of sheep sitting there applauding. 2004 was about fixing a broken system. This is about...what? We overspent on players again, so now we're locking the doors until you give the money back.

I wish David Braley had enough money to buy the NHL.

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10-27-2012, 02:30 AM
  #177
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Bettman got the system of his dreams, the owners didn't have to spend to the cap max but they all give out stupid contracts that intentionally cost them more up front. Why on earth do any players take home town discounts when a percentage of that will be stolen when the next CBA expires!

The league is such a mess, it's really hard to take it seriously and support it after all these years.

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10-27-2012, 04:23 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by ProstheticConscience View Post
It's really depressing reading the Business board right now. I have no idea how the hell anybody can support the NHL owners and Bettman. All these guys know how to do is spend themselves into a hole, blame the players, shut down the league like little kids holding their collective breath, and there's an entire board full of sheep sitting there applauding. 2004 was about fixing a broken system. This is about...what? We overspent on players again, so now we're locking the doors until you give the money back.

I wish David Braley had enough money to buy the NHL.
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
Bettman got the system of his dreams, the owners didn't have to spend to the cap max but they all give out stupid contracts that intentionally cost them more up front. Why on earth do any players take home town discounts when a percentage of that will be stolen when the next CBA expires!

The league is such a mess, it's really hard to take it seriously and support it after all these years.
Nice story, guys, go on believing that if you like. However, do you know what the NHL would have spent on salaries if GMs had showed restraint last year and every team spent to the floor and no further?

57% of $3.3B, or $1.88B.

And what if all the owners had "spent themselves into a hole" and all paid right up to the cap, front loading every contract possible?

57% of $3.3B, or $1.88B.


Last edited by Chubros: 10-27-2012 at 05:13 PM.
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10-27-2012, 04:40 AM
  #179
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I don't understand people hating on ownership for putting a competitive product on the ice. If you don't put a competitive product on the ice you're sure to loose money (save Toronto, Edmonton and Calgary). If you put a competitive product on the ice you may, and likely will, earn money. How do you put a competitive product on the ice? Within the confines of the CBA, you hire competent management and spend to the max. The CBA sets the rules, owners (more or less) are trying their best to turn a profit using those rules. Those rules require you to spend to, or near, the max.

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10-27-2012, 07:40 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
If the players were willing to go to 50% next season, in exchange for keeping their rights (FA, contract length, arbitration etc.) do you think they'd have a deal right now?
If the players offered to play this season (12-13) under a 50% HRR split with a no strike clause so both sides could negotiated a long term deal CBA - I think we'd be watching hockey atm.

The NHL made it clear how retirement contracts were going to screw teams over and anyone dumb enough to sign during this 1 year CBA has no excuses. All the rest isn't game breaking enough to lose a year.


Last edited by me2: 10-27-2012 at 07:46 AM.
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10-29-2012, 11:33 AM
  #181
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Via ESPN, NHL to cancel Winter Classic on Thursday. http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/85...ed-source-says
Great. Just peachy.

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10-29-2012, 11:49 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Chubros View Post
Nice story, guys, go on believing that if you like. However, do you know what the NHL would have spent on salaries if GMs had showed restraint last year and every team spent to the floor and no further?

57% of $3.3B, or $1.88B.

And what if all the owners had "spent themselves into a hole" and all paid right up to the cap, front loading every contract possible?

57% of $3.3B, or $1.88B.
Furthermore, for team owners to not "spend themselves into a hole" there would have to be collusion (ie. teams would have to get together and decide to place limitations on the free agent marketplace that don't exist within the CBA), in which case Donald Fehr would be going to town on the league in a courtroom somewhere right now.

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10-29-2012, 12:27 PM
  #183
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Furthermore, for team owners to not "spend themselves into a hole" there would have to be collusion (ie. teams would have to get together and decide to place limitations on the free agent marketplace that don't exist within the CBA), in which case Donald Fehr would be going to town on the league in a courtroom somewhere right now.
A team being budget conscious and spending their money wisely is not collusion, it's running their business well. You know, what people usually have to do for their business to make money.

It's also inaccurate to describe the owners as having to pay that money no matter what. If the overall share of the players portion fell short because teams weren't spending, teams with the bigger payrolls would pick up the lions share of the tab.


Last edited by Scurr: 10-29-2012 at 01:09 PM.
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10-29-2012, 12:49 PM
  #184
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TEAM1040:

Great. Just peachy.
I would like to thank the NHL for letting things get so ****ed.

They should have just tried to start the season outdoors. That would be quite the opening day. Too bad some people aren't willing to speak in negotiations anymore. What a farce.

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10-29-2012, 01:42 PM
  #185
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God i hate this lockout so much. This whole whose side r u on is turning my buddies apart.

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10-29-2012, 02:18 PM
  #186
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Side? I am on no one's side. Because no one is on my side.

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10-29-2012, 02:40 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
TEAM1040:

Great. Just peachy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
It's not a trade, but Mike Ilitch and Jeremy Jacobs got into an argument during an owners meeting, Ilitch basically called Jacobs cheap.

So after Marty Lapointe put up 27 goals for Detroit, Jacobs thought he'd stick it to Ilitch signed him to a 4 year, $20M contract.

Marty never put up 20 goals again.
From the Trade Rumours most Ironic trades.

So Mike Ilitch won't get his Winter Classic? That's really getting even.

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10-29-2012, 02:43 PM
  #188
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I hate both sides


that is all

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Old
10-29-2012, 03:16 PM
  #189
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A team being budget conscious and spending their money wisely is not collusion, it's running their business well. You know, what people usually have to do for their business to make money.
Yeah but you have a salary cap floor, you have a threshold you must meet to qualify for revenue sharing, you have season ticket holders clamoring to know why you "wisely" chose to sit on $10m of cap space this season..

Teams can't just choose to become or remain terrible because they wish to opt out of the free agent marketplace. And most teams can't drive down the cost of the free agents they sign (like the Canucks do) by emphasizing the benefits of the organization and team.

The fact is that some of the teams with the dumbest looking contracts out there (Colorado - David Jones and PA Parenteau making $4m each, Florida - Upshall, Kopecky, Jovanovski and Kuba combining for almost $15m, Ottawa - Sergei Gonchar, $5.5m) have signed all those deals are would still have been just barely above the floor this season under the now expired CBA.

There is a limited amount of talent available to teams and an inflating amount of money that has to be paid out by each team; those teams can't just hold out for better players to sign with their money becasue a. that money has to get spent and b. I'm sure for the few top flight players that hit free agency, Colorado or Florida or Ottawa are not even in their top ten destinations.

Some teams can consistently sign great value contracts in free agency by being seen as top tier franchises but by definition the entire league can't do that - a consistent refusal by all teams to sign inflated contracts could only be achieved by collusion in the marketplace.

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10-29-2012, 03:17 PM
  #190
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I honestly don't care anymore. They don't care enough to sit down and discuss the issues, so why should I care? Why should I care that millionaires and billionaires are arguing about who's going to take what percentage of my money that they assume I will give them?

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10-29-2012, 03:24 PM
  #191
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I honestly don't care anymore. They don't care enough to sit down and discuss the issues, so why should I care? Why should I care that millionaires and billionaires are arguing about who's going to take what percentage of my money that they assume I will give them?
Starting to feel the same way sadly.

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10-29-2012, 03:35 PM
  #192
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I honestly don't care anymore. They don't care enough to sit down and discuss the issues, so why should I care? Why should I care that millionaires and billionaires are arguing about who's going to take what percentage of my money that they assume I will give them?
Started to feel this way too.

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10-29-2012, 03:38 PM
  #193
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Would much rather give my money to the BC Lions...a team that actually CAN win the big one. Lets sell out BC Place for the season finale and the Western Final. Lets rock the place and flip the bird to the NHL and NHLPA.

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10-29-2012, 03:39 PM
  #194
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Florida - Upshall, Kopecky, Jovanovski and Kuba combining for almost $15m,
Florida is a great example of what I'm talking about. They finally hired a quality GM. Tallon spent to the floor on a team that won the division title, that's a good investment. It didn't turn into a profit this season, making the playoffs 4 times in 18 years isn't going to be turned around overnight.

Columbus, on the other hand, spent to the cap and were terrible. They have an incompetent GM, have since they came into the league. They've lost loads of money in that time... makes sense to me.

Some teams are well run and still lose money, those teams need help. Nashville comes to mind. Most of the teams losing money should be losing money, they're poorly run businesses.

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10-29-2012, 03:39 PM
  #195
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BC Lions...a team that actually CAN win the big one.
Too bad there are more than 8 teams in the NHL.

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10-29-2012, 03:42 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Would much rather give my money to the BC Lions...a team that actually CAN win the big one. Lets sell out BC Place for the season finale and the Western Final. Lets rock the place and flip the bird to the NHL and NHLPA.
Maybe its because their most important player is consistent game to game in the Post Season... or the fact they play less games


Why not give your money to the Vancouver Giants? Still get to watch Hockey, support a team that has been very good in its 10 Year history & show them even if they aren't winning now we will still support them!

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10-29-2012, 03:43 PM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Florida is a great example of what I'm talking about. They finally hired a quality GM. Tallon spent to the floor on a team that won the division title, that's a good investment. It didn't turn into a profit this season, making the playoffs 4 times in 18 years isn't going to be turned around overnight.

Columbus, on the other hand, spent to the cap and were terrible. They have an incompetent GM, have since they came into the league. They've lost loads of money in that time... makes sense to me.

Some teams are well run and still lose money, those teams need help. Nashville comes to mind. Most of the teams losing money should be losing money, they're poorly run businesses.
Teams like Nashville lose money because they're in poor hockey markets.

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10-29-2012, 03:47 PM
  #198
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Teams like Nashville lose money because they're in poor hockey markets.
That too. I think you can grow the game anywhere, it's that good, but it takes time. If the owners are serious about it they need to help give Nashville the time to do it. More hockey markets means bigger TV deals means everyone makes more money.

NHL owners want the players to pay for these teams to grow the game in non hockey markets. Seems ass backwards for the employee's to be the ones investing in the leagues future when they likely aren't going to be the ones around to reap the benefit.

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10-29-2012, 03:55 PM
  #199
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That too. I think you can grow the game anywhere, it's that good, but it takes time. If the owners are serious about it they need to help give Nashville the time to do it. More hockey markets means bigger TV deals means everyone makes more money.

NHL owners want the players to pay for these teams to grow the game in non hockey markets. Seems ass backwards for the employee's to be the ones investing in the leagues future when they likely aren't going to be the ones around to reap the benefit.
I don't think you necessarily need to grow the game to non-traditional hockey markets. There are more markets in Canada available to the NHL than any other professional sports league (aside from the CFL which is 100% Canadian). Not to mention there are several unserved US markets that would most likely outdraw many currently served and failing NHL markets. I understand the need for a US TV deal, but what network will want to commit to a league that's failing in 33% of its markets regardless of where they are? There's all this talk about population size and the potential, but if you can't reach those people then its pretty pointless.

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10-29-2012, 04:11 PM
  #200
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At the risk of repeating myself: The NHl and the NHLPA have seriously miscalulated here. Hockey will be fine in Canada...and I suspect a great many fans will attach themselves to lesser leagues while the lock out proceeds.

But the (southern) US market is really going to dry up. As Y2K correctly points out, there is no natural market for the game down here...and you cannot include a bunch of retired snowbirds who are more intested in the early bird special than spending their evenings (and their pension money) at a hockey arena.

Secondly, a lock out hat wiped out the season is money that has disappeared forever. You don't recover that kind of loss of dollars.

Both sides are already blinking, and blinking hard. People with a brain, from either side, alady know this is a bad idea. But it looks like their heels are dug in so hard that there does not seem to be much movement.

So Bettman maybe gets what he wants but then we'll see a number of franchises relocate or go bankrupt over the next few years and the NHL will go back to being the regional sports league that it always was.

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