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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Looking towards the future... CBA's should be signed long before the current CBA ends

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Old
10-28-2012, 11:16 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Darth Bangkok View Post
The next cba should stipulate that if there is no new cba agreed to within two months of its expiration, it automatically gets extended one more year. This keeps happening until a new one is agreed to.
I thought about this and realized that instead, the binding arbitrators should be responsible for negotiating for both sides, and that the NHL and NHLPA should forfeit their ability to negotiate.

Thus, the binding arbitrators would make and sign the new deal, provided that the NHL/NHLPA chose not to negotiate on their own during the interim.

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10-28-2012, 11:20 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by AHockeyGameBrokeOut View Post
In this case, no individual county or state jurisdiction could rule, so the case would go directly to the Supreme Court
No. There is a whole federal court system besides the SCOTUS.

Any case would be heard in Federal District Court in whatever district some party filed suit - if you can find any federal statutes which have been violated. After that, any appeals would be heard by the US Court of Appeal covering that district, and only after that would any appeal be made to the SCOTUS. ANd even then, all the SCOTUS would do is decline the petition, uphold the lower court, or overrule it and remand it back to the lower courts for further consideration. It has absolutely no authority to "penalize them for billions of dollars on both sides, order a revocation of all monies earned by the NHLPA and refund them all to the cities that built those arenas with taxpayer dollars and all of the people who are losing money and jobs as a result of the lockout, strike, etc."

Typically, past litigation will dictate where actions will originate - which is why most labor and anti trust action against the NFL since the 70's has begun in US District Court, District of Minnesota.

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10-28-2012, 11:27 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
It has absolutely no authority to "penalize them for billions of dollars on both sides, order a revocation of all monies earned by the NHLPA and refund them all to the cities that built those arenas with taxpayer dollars and all of the people who are losing money and jobs as a result of the lockout, strike, etc."
In the event of a Trust settlement, it can do just that... and more.

The NHL is an international organization by default, and thus choosing a ruling US district would simply be a precursor.

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10-28-2012, 11:32 PM
  #29
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This is stupid.

This makes no sense and doesn't stand in the realm of reality. You obviously don't understand how the courts work.

The owners and players will never give up their right to negotiate, or negotiate years before the current one ends. Nor should they.

Also, this is not just a U.S. problem.

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10-28-2012, 11:34 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
This is stupid.

This makes no sense and doesn't stand in the realm of reality. You obviously don't understand how the courts work.

The owners and players will never give up their right to negotiate, or negotiate years before the current one ends. Nor should they.

Also, this is not just a U.S. problem.
All it would take is a few literate fans to get together and change their minds.

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10-28-2012, 11:36 PM
  #31
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In the event of a Trust settlement, it can do just that... and more.
Actually not. Any damages would be the result of a jury trial in US District Court. The Courts of Appeal and the SCOTUS would just uphold or overrule those damages.

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The NHL is an international organization by default, and thus choosing a ruling US district would simply be a precursor.
Being an "international organization" is irrelevant. It just meas that it's actions may be subject to legal challenge in both jurisdictions. But any civil action under US courts under labor or anti trust law would be no different than a suit against any other sports league (or even any other corporation of employer).

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10-28-2012, 11:37 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Actually not. Any damages would be the result of a jury trial in US District Court. Te Courts of Appeal and the SCOTUS would just uphold or overrule those damages.



Being an "international organization" is irrelevant. It just meas that it's actions may be subject to legal challenge in both jurisdictions. But any civil action under US courts under labor or anti trust law would be no different than a suit against any other sports league (or even any other corporation of employer).
They would have to include the operations the territories and provinces of Canada as part of the jurisdiction and would thus require representatives from those jurisdictions to be present in the proceedings, which means that an accurate ruling from a lower court is impossible.

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10-28-2012, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by AHockeyGameBrokeOut View Post
In the event of a Trust settlement, it can do just that... and more.

The NHL is an international organization by default, and thus choosing a ruling US district would simply be a precursor.
huh??? I think you should stop while you can and spend a few months going over some basics.

Regardless strikes and lockouts are integral parts of negotiations, they are there to ramp up the pressure and break deadlocks when they happen. I actually have no idea what your trying to accomplish? You want to cripple their negotiating power to suit your narrow and biased agenda?

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10-28-2012, 11:47 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by AHockeyGameBrokeOut View Post
All it would take is a few literate fans to get together and change their minds.
No, it really wouldn't. For so many reasons.

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10-28-2012, 11:51 PM
  #35
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You want to cripple their negotiating power to suit your narrow and biased agenda?
Absolutely. And so do you. We all want to cripple their negotiating power on both sides. They've had more than enough time... way more than enough time.

Hockey should be on, right now. We should be talking about the game that was on tonight.

I think we should take drastic, extreme measures to end the lockout. If you don't want to, then don't.

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10-29-2012, 12:33 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by AHockeyGameBrokeOut View Post
Absolutely. And so do you. We all want to cripple their negotiating power on both sides. They've had more than enough time... way more than enough time.

Hockey should be on, right now. We should be talking about the game that was on tonight.

I think we should take drastic, extreme measures to end the lockout. If you don't want to, then don't.
No I dont want that, that is idiotic, and not only that, it would lead to even more problems down the line. You cant sweep the problems and miss trust under a rug and call it a day, it will eat away at the league and business and get only worse, and sooner or latter you have to deal with it.

These are negotiations, its not a essential service, obviously, in which case the best and only option is to not get involved and let the two sides figure it out. The longer this drags on the better the chance that the league will face the problem of miss trust they have created between them selves and the NHLPA and try to genuinely fix it. At the same time the NHLPA can be open to giving the league a chance, and begin putting the past behind them and helping rebuild some trust and chemistry between both sides.

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10-29-2012, 12:54 AM
  #37
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As annoying as this lockout is, even if anything you are saying was the least bit possible, if you force a "solution", then soon there is simply no league at all.

Better no hockey for a year than no hockey ever.

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10-29-2012, 03:35 AM
  #38
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No I dont want that, that is idiotic, and not only that, it would lead to even more problems down the line.
Sorry, what you want is irrelevant in comparison to what the majority wants. If the majority of people want something, it happens. You get one vote and one vote only.

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You cant sweep the problems and miss trust under a rug and call it a day, it will eat away at the league and business and get only worse, and sooner or latter you have to deal with it.
Sure you can. There was never any trust and there were always problems.

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Originally Posted by Frkinator View Post
These are negotiations, its not a essential service, obviously, in which case the best and only option is to not get involved and let the two sides figure it out. The longer this drags on the better the chance that the league will face the problem of miss trust they have created between them selves and the NHLPA and try to genuinely fix it. At the same time the NHLPA can be open to giving the league a chance, and begin putting the past behind them and helping rebuild some trust and chemistry between both sides.
Tell that to all the workers who have no jobs and the season ticket holders who are missing games that they paid for months in advance.

They have every right as consumers to get involved and demand what they paid for, by any means necessary. No retreat, no surrender, no regrets.

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10-29-2012, 03:40 AM
  #39
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Better no hockey for a year than no hockey ever.
That mindset of procrastination is what is wrong with the economy in the US and in North America in general.

My mindset is exactly the opposite. If we can't have hockey this year, we shouldn't have hockey ever again.

If you put something off, you'll put it off again and again and it'll never get done. Eventually, a lot of things left undone leads to a total collapse.

We need people to get involved who will get it done at any cost. Life is short, time is short, things need to happen as soon as possible. Time is precious. Why should paying customers and employees have to wait around for this nonsense? If you're a concession worker, janitor, film crew, etc. employee, you should get right up in these people's faces and tell them exactly how you feel, and ask them if it's worth it to have a standoff over a few million dollars when you are lucky to pull $40,000~ a year.

No surrender, no retreat, no regrets. Get things done by any means necessary. Even if it means there's no hockey ever again. Risk = Business.

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10-29-2012, 05:10 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by AHockeyGameBrokeOut View Post
That mindset of procrastination is what is wrong with the economy in the US and in North America in general.

My mindset is exactly the opposite. If we can't have hockey this year, we shouldn't have hockey ever again.

If you put something off, you'll put it off again and again and it'll never get done. Eventually, a lot of things left undone leads to a total collapse.

We need people to get involved who will get it done at any cost. Life is short, time is short, things need to happen as soon as possible. Time is precious. Why should paying customers and employees have to wait around for this nonsense? If you're a concession worker, janitor, film crew, etc. employee, you should get right up in these people's faces and tell them exactly how you feel, and ask them if it's worth it to have a standoff over a few million dollars when you are lucky to pull $40,000~ a year.

No surrender, no retreat, no regrets. Get things done by any means necessary. Even if it means there's no hockey ever again. Risk = Business.
Why don't YOU get right up in that face of the concession worker, janitor, film crew, etc. employee, players, and everybody else and tell them they will never work again because you're impatient.

The mindset of procrastination is not at all what the problems in the economy are about. You obviously have less of a grasp of economics than you do of U.S. law.

The third line you wrote is exactly it. If we just ignore the problems and throw them over the rug, it will lead to a total collapse of the league. That is why the lockout is happening. To deal with the problems now, so that the league can continue to thrive and stay healthy for years to come.

Even if you have a lockout for every CBA (which even in worst case scenario, will never happen), it is still 5+ years of hockey for every year of lockout. Any hockey fan in the world would prefer that scenario over no hockey ever.

It sucks, but these things sometimes require time, no matter who is running the show, or what child is throwing a temper tantrum over it. That's life. Deal with it.

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10-29-2012, 07:00 AM
  #41
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LOL - ya think?

Both sides like having a work stoppage as leverage. Nobody is going to negotiate that early - Fehr wouldn't even negotiate until July this year.
Exactly, Fehr's whole game plan has revolved around stalling.

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10-29-2012, 03:13 PM
  #42
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How about every game missed by a lockout means that the owner owes one free attendance when the season restarts, and each player must play that game for free.

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10-29-2012, 03:19 PM
  #43
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I'd say that they should move the date up a bit, mid-summer would be better. September 15th just doesn't allow any time for real negotiations. Not that either of these sides are really making a concerted effort to negotiate, but even if they were. August 15th should be the cut-off date. With sitdown meeting already planned in within 3 days of that date and beyond. If they want to sit and stare at each other and not say anything, that's their problem.

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10-29-2012, 03:39 PM
  #44
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I'd say that they should move the date up a bit, mid-summer would be better. September 15th just doesn't allow any time for real negotiations. Not that either of these sides are really making a concerted effort to negotiate, but even if they were. August 15th should be the cut-off date. With sitdown meeting already planned in within 3 days of that date and beyond. If they want to sit and stare at each other and not say anything, that's their problem.
Prior to July 1 IMO, or at least free agency. Stops the up-front bonus contracts. Creates the correct playing field once a deal is done. May have a few more players an owners a bit keener to get a deal done too.

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10-29-2012, 03:54 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by AHockeyGameBrokeOut View Post
That's why early negotiation needs to be a mandatory part of the new CBA. That's what I'm saying - negotiation should be mandatory and a deal should have to be signed prior to the expiration of the current CBA..
i think you are missing a basic. you can mandate negotiations but you can not mandate an agreement. if missing games and paychecks and paydays isnt enough mandate to get an agreement, then a mandated time to start negotiating will have no effect.

right?

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10-29-2012, 05:24 PM
  #46
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i think you are missing a basic. you can mandate negotiations but you can not mandate an agreement. if missing games and paychecks and paydays isnt enough mandate to get an agreement, then a mandated time to start negotiating will have no effect.

right?
Yes, you CAN mandate an agreement.

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10-29-2012, 05:37 PM
  #47
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Yes, you CAN mandate an agreement.
Why would either side agree to mandate an agreement instead of actually negotiating

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10-29-2012, 05:38 PM
  #48
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don't think an arbitrator could be much help until both sides agree to the framework of the offers.

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10-29-2012, 05:58 PM
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I don't think it's necessary. I'm on the owners side, but if I'm the players I'd say "Hey look, we'll take the deal you have tabled contingent on the sole idea that you do not decrease our % share of revenue, ask for a salary rollback, redefine HRR, or in any other way, shape, or form, pitch us a CBA that reduces the percentage of money the PA is entitled to.

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10-29-2012, 06:01 PM
  #50
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The way to prevent a work stoppage is if both sides have enough to loose that it makes sense for both sides to compromise. In this case, the NHL has way less to loose by not settling, while the NHLPA has a lot to loose by not settling. A healthier league (like the NFL) would make the NHL more apt to settle.

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