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*OFFICIAL* Kitchener Rangers 2012-13 Season Thread

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10-29-2012, 11:10 AM
  #651
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5 pts out of 6pts in a 3 in 3 weekend was great. Keep it up boys!

On Sunday....Alberga and Czinder looked to have stepped up a little. Still think I would like Czinder's ice time given to one of the rookies. The penalty he took was totally unnecessary.

Anyone have any update on Matia?

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10-29-2012, 11:17 AM
  #652
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I was shocked to see Czinder actually skating hard and hustling out there last night. Still not really hitting, but working harder than he has so far this year. One step at a time, I suppose.

Nothing on Matia but does anyone know why Iafrate didn't see the ice for most of the 2nd and all of the 3rd?

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10-29-2012, 11:21 AM
  #653
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I noticed Max wasnt on the ice too. I dont know if he got another shift or not after Plymouth scored. Looked to be in the dog house.

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10-29-2012, 11:32 AM
  #654
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I noticed Max wasnt on the ice too. I dont know if he got another shift or not after Plymouth scored. Looked to be in the dog house.
That was my thought too. One of the things I really dislike about Spott & Co. Iafrate makes a poor decision/bad play and his butt is stapled to the bench for the rest of the game. Murphy makes the same poor decision/bad play and he gets more ice time. McEneny makes a mistake and it's brushed off, but Gilbert can make the same damn mistake and he's benched or scratched the next game.

It's frustrating and stupid and I'm not sure how it's supposed to help the player or the team. A kid who is afraid to make a mistake is guaranteed to do so.

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10-29-2012, 11:35 AM
  #655
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I was shocked to see Czinder actually skating hard and hustling out there last night. Still not really hitting, but working harder than he has so far this year. One step at a time, I suppose.

Nothing on Matia but does anyone know why Iafrate didn't see the ice for most of the 2nd and all of the 3rd?
I can skate hard and hustle and still at age 57 contribute as much as Czinder!
Matia apparently had his "bell rung"....I absolutely hate that term, in other words..."concussion", I didnt have a clear view from Sec 19 on the hit and have no idea if it was missed call or not. Don't know how it could be since they were call everything in the book and beyond!

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10-29-2012, 12:08 PM
  #656
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I recall Marcantuoni taking a few shifts after the hit. I dont think he saw a regular shift however, and cant recall whether he played in the 3rd or not.

My main concern is why put the kid out for another shift, even if he says he's fine, without doing proper concussion protocol? They evidently deemed him unfit to finish the game, I didnt see him on the bench at the end.

I hope he is alright, would hate to see another Myles Applebaum, if we can all remember those days.

I dont know in what world a hit to the head which pops a players helmet off, isnt called a hit to the head.....

I have been voicing my displeasure with the way Murphy and some other players can make consequenceless mistake after mistake, while others make one are ride the pine since Spott took over.

I think it would be great to see a fan come right out and ask it at one of those breakfast events where people can ask questions.

"Mr Spott, I would like you to explain to us why certain players on your team can make 10 mistakes a game and see 30 minutes of ice, while others can make 1 or 2 of the same 10 mistakes made, but will not see the ice for the remainder of the game, or whined up scratched the next game? You preach accountability, yet seem unable to divy it out to all those requiring a dose of that medicine *cough* Murphy *cough*"

Pretty sure I'd be shown the door

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10-29-2012, 01:13 PM
  #657
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In the post game, I think it was Farwell who said Matia was in street clothes before the game ended. I would imagine that means the "bell rung" testing would have happened before that. I think he wasnt on the bench for most of the third.

I understand Spott having favorites on the team (in regard to Murphy) but he has to treat similar position players the same way. I feel he uses the "has to work through it" arguement for his favorites, while he will make everyone else sit on the pine as a consequence for what they did. Not using the same measuring stick at all for players. While some players may respond differently to different kinds of treatment, it sure doesnt send the right message to continually do it.

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10-29-2012, 02:10 PM
  #658
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is the first rounder Shmaltz injured or is he sitting? How has he looked so far? thanks

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10-29-2012, 02:35 PM
  #659
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is the first rounder Shmaltz injured or is he sitting? How has he looked so far? thanks
Sitting for now, IMHO Czinder should be waived and his icetime given to Schmalz!!

Kitchener today has traded Ryan Hanes to Kingston for a 2013 7th round pick.
He was originally obtained for a 2013 8th round pick!


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10-29-2012, 05:40 PM
  #660
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Sitting for now, IMHO Czinder should be waived and his icetime given to Schmalz!!

Kitchener today has traded Ryan Hanes to Kingston for a 2013 7th round pick.
He was originally obtained for a 2013 8th round pick!
So we increased our pick AND opened a roster spot......Nice! Usually criticize Spott for some of his deals but am happy with some of the deals he has made this year. Just happy we got something for Hanes, I would have gladly just released him.

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10-29-2012, 05:47 PM
  #661
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So we increased our pick AND opened a roster spot......Nice! Usually criticize Spott for some of his deals but am happy with some of the deals he has made this year. Just happy we got something for Hanes, I would have gladly just released him.
I suspect a lot to do with this move is the emergence of Jared Gilbert as a very reliable 4th or 5th dman at 17 yrs old......and maybe Crescenzi coming back soon??
But it's hard to turn down a 7th for Hanes (Bailey was a 7th round pick).

But I would dump Czinder if AC were to be here this week.
Too bad they never named Hurricane Sandy to Hurricane Czinder since it wouldn't hit anything then.


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10-30-2012, 08:08 AM
  #662
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I suspect a lot to do with this move is the emergence of Jared Gilbert as a very reliable 4th or 5th dman at 17 yrs old......and maybe Crescenzi coming back soon??
But it's hard to turn down a 7th for Hanes (Bailey was a 7th round pick).

But I would dump Czinder if AC were to be here this week.
Too bad they never named Hurricane Sandy to Hurricane Czinder since it wouldn't hit anything then.


But you seem to be forgetting that hit he laid on Thomson! First of the year....to bad it was his own guy.

In all honesty, I feel bad that we (certainly myself included) rip on this kid on an internet forum pretty good. I have no doubt that he wants to be a member of the Kitchener Rangers and is putting forward his best effort in doing so.

I simply believe he does not have the pedigree to be an Overager in the OHL.

In regards to AC, I wouldnt bet any money on him returning. Leafs had a good opportunity to do so when he had no team for two weeks, they passed on it. They have been adament on his playing against men, not boys.

There isnt a pressing need to add O/A's to this team really, I'd be happy with a top pairing stay at home defender of any age really, though from an O/A prospective, Jake Cardwell and Brandon Archibald can likely be had on two underwhelming squads in the 67's and the Spirit. I dont think either would cost the team a top young prospect, but maybe a Josh Sterk + mid range picks. Maybe throw in a Pedersen and up the picks to higher round and get Trocheck as well, with a condition on his return for O/A that gives up more.

Sterk, Pedersen++ for Trocheck and Archibald. Probably would cost alot of extra picks though!

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10-30-2012, 09:39 AM
  #663
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But you seem to be forgetting that hit he laid on Thomson! First of the year....to bad it was his own guy.

In all honesty, I feel bad that we (certainly myself included) rip on this kid on an internet forum pretty good. I have no doubt that he wants to be a member of the Kitchener Rangers and is putting forward his best effort in doing so.

I simply believe he does not have the pedigree to be an Overager in the OHL.

In regards to AC, I wouldnt bet any money on him returning. Leafs had a good opportunity to do so when he had no team for two weeks, they passed on it. They have been adament on his playing against men, not boys.

There isnt a pressing need to add O/A's to this team really, I'd be happy with a top pairing stay at home defender of any age really, though from an O/A prospective, Jake Cardwell and Brandon Archibald can likely be had on two underwhelming squads in the 67's and the Spirit. I dont think either would cost the team a top young prospect, but maybe a Josh Sterk + mid range picks. Maybe throw in a Pedersen and up the picks to higher round and get Trocheck as well, with a condition on his return for O/A that gives up more.

Sterk, Pedersen++ for Trocheck and Archibald. Probably would cost alot of extra picks though!
I liked your earlier trade with Archibald and Ross. Also months ago I was hoping for a Kantor/Sefton trade with the Wolves.
I know including Sefton would come pricey but would to downgrade it slightly I would gladly take Charlie Dodero (with Kantor) back here instead.

As for AC....who the heck knows with the Leafs.....didn't they send D'Amigo here sometime in late January?

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10-30-2012, 09:51 AM
  #664
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I liked your earlier trade with Archibald and Ross. Also months ago I was hoping for a Kantor/Sefton trade with the Wolves.
I know including Sefton would come pricey but would to downgrade it slightly I would gladly take Charlie Dodero (with Kantor) back here instead.

As for AC....who the heck knows with the Leafs.....didn't they send D'Amigo here sometime in late January?
I see no downside to holding out, playing the kids for some key development time and adding the OA when the right opportunity presents itself. It'd be foolish to panic and jump on the first run-of-the-mill OA you can find and burn another card at this point - which is what he did just before the season if you ask me.

I think TO is intent on getting AC some time with "men" this year, but that doesn't preclude him being re-assigned here after Christmas, just like with D'Amigo. And I do like the Archibald/Ross suggestion for sure. Cardwell would be harder to pry out of Ottawa.

Having said that, this will be a pricey year as the deadline draws near. Way more buyers than sellers given how many teams feel they can compete.

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10-30-2012, 09:56 AM
  #665
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Ward, dont get me wrong I loved Charlie D when he was here. But at this point I think if we dont get a top end minute eater like a Sefton then we really should just stick with playing the young guys and develop them. I think it would be in our best interest to give the kids minutes if it means bringing in a Dodero type of guy that is serviceable but wouldnt have the same impact.

As for AC, we have to plan on him not coming back. If he does....great, then cut one of the OA loose. Who would've thought we'd get a 7th back for Hanes.

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10-30-2012, 10:10 AM
  #666
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I see no downside to holding out, playing the kids for some key development time and adding the OA when the right opportunity presents itself. It'd be foolish to panic and jump on the first run-of-the-mill OA you can find and burn another card at this point - which is what he did just before the season if you ask me.

I think TO is intent on getting AC some time with "men" this year, but that doesn't preclude him being re-assigned here after Christmas, just like with D'Amigo. And I do like the Archibald/Ross suggestion for sure. Cardwell would be harder to pry out of Ottawa.

Having said that, this will be a pricey year as the deadline draws near. Way more buyers than sellers given how many teams feel they can compete.
I love the idea of giving the kids more playing time for any number of reasons.
But one bonus of doing this is the players increase they value to the Rangers and to any other team that Spott wants to acquire a bigtime player from.

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Ward, dont get me wrong I loved Charlie D when he was here. But at this point I think if we dont get a top end minute eater like a Sefton then we really should just stick with playing the young guys and develop them. I think it would be in our best interest to give the kids minutes if it means bringing in a Dodero type of guy that is serviceable but wouldnt have the same impact.

As for AC, we have to plan on him not coming back. If he does....great, then cut one of the OA loose. Who would've thought we'd get a 7th back for Hanes.
The only reason I said Charlie D is that it wouldn't break the bank for prospects or picks.
I would love to see a full cupboard of picks. With Spott getting the Rangers to a Western C. Final two out of the last three years with minimum high draft picks playing
imagine what he could do with a lot of top 5 round picks playing??
Otherwise IMHO the Rangers will always just be on the cusp but never quite good enough. Keep the picks and play them, eventually you can
trade some for the "go for it" without emptying the prospects and draft cupboard!

* I firmly believe that to "go for it" you have to prepare a cpl years in advance to make sure you have some bullets to put into the chamber.
Spott never seemed to agree with me though!

I also believe if you go back and look at other OHL Champs the best moves made at the trade deadline were for depth players and not a Taveres type of star.


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10-30-2012, 10:49 AM
  #667
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I love the idea of giving the kids more playing time for any number of reasons.
But one bonus of doing this is the players increase they value to the Rangers and to any other team that Spott wants to acquire a bigtime player from.



The only reason I said Charlie D is that it wouldn't break the bank for prospects or picks.
I would love to see a full cupboard of picks. With Spott getting the Rangers to a Western C. Final two out of the last three years with minimum high draft picks playing
imagine what he could do with a lot of top 5 round picks playing??
Otherwise IMHO the Rangers will always just be on the cusp but never quite good enough. Keep the picks and play them, eventually you can
trade some for the "go for it" without emptying the prospects and draft cupboard!

* I firmly believe that to "go for it" you have to prepare a cpl years in advance to make sure you have some bullets to put into the chamber.
Spott never seemed to agree with me though!

I also believe if you go back and look at other OHL Champs the best moves made at the trade deadline were for depth players and not a Taveres type of star.
Agree with alot of what you said. The only thing I think is different is Spott's/Mgmt drafting they did or they do. They get "top 5" value out of later picks (7th round for Bailey, 6th round for Mayfield if he would've reported, 8th round for Thomson, 11th round for Gibson). And I can't really believe I am making points in favor of Spott for this as I think he treats draft picks like candy at Halloween sometimes.

But for the limited picks he has at times I like how we are taking chances with some of these players. He takes a chance on Gibson and he reports, hopefully MacInnis will report next year. Then there is Trouba which doesnt necessarily work out too. Being the organization we are, I feel we are able to take these chances for better or not.

And I don't think we need a Percy/Ceci type impact player. A solid shutdown or TWD that might not cost as much but still cost. Not looking for Kitchener to get that Tavares type player this year in a Strome/Schiefele kind of player.

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10-30-2012, 11:06 AM
  #668
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Agree with alot of what you said. The only thing I think is different is Spott's/Mgmt drafting they did or they do. They get "top 5" value out of later picks (7th round for Bailey, 6th round for Mayfield if he would've reported, 8th round for Thomson, 11th round for Gibson). And I can't really believe I am making points in favor of Spott for this as I think he treats draft picks like candy at Halloween sometimes.

But for the limited picks he has at times I like how we are taking chances with some of these players. He takes a chance on Gibson and he reports, hopefully MacInnis will report next year. Then there is Trouba which doesnt necessarily work out too. Being the organization we are, I feel we are able to take these chances for better or not.

And I don't think we need a Percy/Ceci type impact player. A solid shutdown or TWD that might not cost as much but still cost. Not looking for Kitchener to get that Tavares type player this year in a Strome/Schiefele kind of player.
Bingo!
I can't agree more...now imagine these golden late round picks with higher round picks that Spott missed out on because he traded them away??

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10-30-2012, 02:29 PM
  #669
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I agree about not needing a Percy/Ceci/Strome type.

This team has Murphy/Puempel/Faksa/Reider already, and at the cost of one of those players, Im not comfortable with it.

Ideally, I'd like to see the Rangers add a 2nd line player, capable of putting up 1 point per game pace, and a D-man capable of playing with Murphy who is solid in his own end.

That is why I identified Ross and Archibald. Both are O/A's so the price will not be sky high considering a potential return next year, neither is a star, but solid players, they are on a bad bad team, and the same team, so can likely get both for less then what it would otherwise cost to acquire each individually.

I am in no rush, I agree with letting the player play, but at the same time, if Spott finds the right deal tomorrow, make it.

The longer you wait, with so many teams in the fold, the more expensive it gets, and the less there is available (in terms of other teams outbidding you for the same player).

The longer the team plays together the better off they will be. Don't forget Spott is gone all December/early January, and Troy Smith is also gone over the christmas break for Hockey Canada Committments.

IMO, if Spott is going to find a deal for this club that doesnt break the bank, one that allows a player to mesh with the team, and know what his role is etc, that needs to happen a before Spott departs for HC duties.

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10-30-2012, 02:50 PM
  #670
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IMO, if Spott is going to find a deal for this club , that needs to happen a before Spott departs for HC duties.
But isn't that where he has a few "chats" with Strome, Hamilton, Ceci and Monahan about the many amenities the K-W area has to offer?

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10-30-2012, 03:14 PM
  #671
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But isn't that where he has a few "chats" with Strome, Hamilton, Ceci and Monahan about the many amenities the K-W area has to offer?
If only players could trade themselves....

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10-30-2012, 03:15 PM
  #672
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If only players could trade themselves....
Puempel did.

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10-30-2012, 03:26 PM
  #673
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Puempel did.

They also draft themselves!

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10-30-2012, 06:01 PM
  #674
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In regards to AC, I wouldnt bet any money on him returning. Leafs had a good opportunity to do so when he had no team for two weeks, they passed on it. They have been adament on his playing against men, not boys.

I don't see it that way. I think the reason that the Leafs didn't sent AC back here is because they wanted the flexibility to recall him up to the Marlies full time in the event the NHL starts up.

Bottom line is, AC was cut from the Marlies which left them with 12 skaters and 4 healthy scratches at forward. that's a ways down their depth chart. I believe that he's only back there now to get him some practice/gametime. If the NHL starts up, he may be lost to us permanently if 3 or 4 Marlie forwards make the NHL roster. If the NHL shuts down for the season, then I bet AC is returned here.

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10-30-2012, 06:37 PM
  #675
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I see no downside to holding out, playing the kids for some key development time and adding the OA when the right opportunity presents itself. It'd be foolish to panic and jump on the first run-of-the-mill OA you can find and burn another card at this point - which is what he did just before the season if you ask me.


Having said that, this will be a pricey year as the deadline draws near. Way more buyers than sellers given how many teams feel they can compete.

I see the value of playing the kids too and not panicking in regards to the OA situation. But improving on the OA's has to take precedence.

Historically, in 2003 (George Halkidis), and in 2006 (Cory Konecny) we scored very good OA's in the 1st couple months of the season. Also, we waited around until the deadline in 2008 and wound up overpaying for Scott Tregunna (rights to Cam Fowler and a second rounder). Tregunna was useful, but we overpaid for him because we were expecting the 80+ point getter from the year before. That's not the guy who showed up.

You are right about the buyer/seller ratio. It's going to be bigtime expensive to do anything at the deadline if things keep rolling like they are around the league - especially in the west. That's not good for the Rangers at all since we are virtually out of high end draft picks and most of our young players that other teams would covet have their share of warts (Bailey and probably Gilbert excluded).

As a matter of fact, I believe that no matter what, any prospective trading partner will be demanding Bailey, front and center. I can here the negotiation now:
Spott: "Sterk or Pederson?"
Opposing GM: "Nope. I want Bailey."
Spott: "How about Schmalz?"
Opposing GM: "Nope Bailey!"
Spott: "There's no way I'm moving Bailey!"
Opposing GM: "Then I'll call back the three other teams who are offering better pieces. Don't call back unless you're willing to part with Bailey."

Ouch! I hate to be Spott at the deadline. He will hear about it big time if he doesn't make an impact between now and the deadline after saying this would be a special year - Memorial Cup run, etc.

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