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Edmonton Eskimos (IV): playoffs @ Toronto next week; Tillman fired

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Old
10-29-2012, 07:25 PM
  #451
Kyle McMahon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDO View Post
You're grossly underestimating how much of a say Tillman has in who the coaches are.

You're also missing that keeping Crandell is good for Tillman... it gives him someone to let go as a scape goat (which will actually be the third time that it's happened to Crandell in less than 3 months, given first he had an "adviser" come in and then he was "demoted") to distract attention from the fact that he took away a guy who has thrown for 140+ passer ratings and 8 TD's in his last two games... for Steven frigging Jyles.

Following the spin coming from this organization (and lets not forget that ANOTHER quality person left this organization in the last week... common trend since ET took over) is dizzying.

Esks will be a **** show until ET is gone, and likely for a year or two after given all the damage he's done.
Keeping Crandell is not good for Tillman. I'm sure he'd give his left nut for this franchise to have at least matched last season's record and justify the Ray trade. By keeping Crandell around and allowing the team to sink to this level, he looks like an idiot who is more interested in not offending his head coach by canning his buddy than winning as many games as possible this season. And now he's opened himself up to all sorts of criticism. While I happen to believe that we'd probably have the exact same record as we do right now if Ray was still our QB, not everyone will share this opinion, and any casual fans will most certainly point to this as the reason.

Is simply keeping Crandell around as a buffer and then firing him in December really going to take the heat off ET? Not a chance. Tillman gambled that Reed and Crandell could sort things out, and he's poised to lose that gamble. Very badly.

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10-29-2012, 07:46 PM
  #452
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http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spo...176075371.html

Unbiased article has Esks dead last in Canadian talent.

No QB.

No Canadians.

No chance.

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Old
10-29-2012, 07:56 PM
  #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Keeping Crandell is not good for Tillman. I'm sure he'd give his left nut for this franchise to have at least matched last season's record and justify the Ray trade. By keeping Crandell around and allowing the team to sink to this level, he looks like an idiot who is more interested in not offending his head coach by canning his buddy than winning as many games as possible this season. And now he's opened himself up to all sorts of criticism. While I happen to believe that we'd probably have the exact same record as we do right now if Ray was still our QB, not everyone will share this opinion, and any casual fans will most certainly point to this as the reason.

Is simply keeping Crandell around as a buffer and then firing him in December really going to take the heat off ET? Not a chance. Tillman gambled that Reed and Crandell could sort things out, and he's poised to lose that gamble. Very badly.
Of course he would rather win, but the guy is adept as throwing anyone and everyone else under the bus before himself. If he's not going to win, you can be sure as hell he'll do his best to make sure somebody else is the fall guy.

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10-29-2012, 08:23 PM
  #454
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Of course he would rather win, but the guy is adept as throwing anyone and everyone else under the bus before himself. If he's not going to win, you can be sure as hell he'll do his best to make sure somebody else is the fall guy.
Well based on what I've seen, Crandell and Reed SHOULD be the fall guys before Tillman. Going on the premise that bad coaching has pissed away at least three games and possibly more, it's not unreasonable to say Tillman has assembled a roster that should have won 10 or 11 games. Not spectacular, but not too shabby either, especially considering the number of key injuries.

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10-29-2012, 08:32 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Well based on what I've seen, Crandell and Reed SHOULD be the fall guys before Tillman. Going on the premise that bad coaching has pissed away at least three games and possibly more, it's not unreasonable to say Tillman has assembled a roster that should have won 10 or 11 games. Not spectacular, but not too shabby either, especially considering the number of key injuries.
Bad QB'ing cost us a lot more than 3 games.

@ Sask, @ Win, @ Cgy, Vs Cgy, vs BC and @ Mtl are all games we win with even average quarterbacking.

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10-29-2012, 09:02 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by PDO View Post
Bad QB'ing cost us a lot more than 3 games.

@ Sask, @ Win, @ Cgy, Vs Cgy, vs BC and @ Mtl are all games we win with even average quarterbacking.
The QB play was no worse than average in three of those games you list. I didn't watch much of the vs BC game, so I'm hesitant to comment on either coaches or QB's in that one.

QB play was more than adequate in both Labour Day games, and we were let down by ****** decisions from the sideline. Those two games were the turning point in the season. Jyles was decent in Winnipeg, but of course the fumble to blow the game is what sticks out. I'm not sure this is a QB issue though, since anybody could have fumbled. And if Nichols is inserted earlier, or Reed doesn't foolishly concede a saftey that resulted in 9 points against, we win in Montreal. I would say the @ Sask game is the only instance where QB play was CLEARLY a bigger factor in the loss than poor coaching.

The QB play hasn't been good enough, there's no denying that, and that's defintiely on Tillman for not bringing in adequate personnel. But the coaching has been even worse, and that's something that a team can rarely overcome, whereas decent coaching CAN overcome QB deficiencies.

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10-29-2012, 09:14 PM
  #457
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PDO,

2 missed field goals and a goal line fumble is hardly a QB'ing issue. I DON"T LIKE OUR QB"S BUT IT"S MORE THAN THAT>

I"M NOT YELLING< F"N CAPS LOCK IS STUCK

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10-29-2012, 09:39 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
The QB play was no worse than average in three of those games you list. I didn't watch much of the vs BC game, so I'm hesitant to comment on either coaches or QB's in that one.

QB play was more than adequate in both Labour Day games, and we were let down by ****** decisions from the sideline. Those two games were the turning point in the season. Jyles was decent in Winnipeg, but of course the fumble to blow the game is what sticks out. I'm not sure this is a QB issue though, since anybody could have fumbled. And if Nichols is inserted earlier, or Reed doesn't foolishly concede a saftey that resulted in 9 points against, we win in Montreal. I would say the @ Sask game is the only instance where QB play was CLEARLY a bigger factor in the loss than poor coaching.

The QB play hasn't been good enough, there's no denying that, and that's defintiely on Tillman for not bringing in adequate personnel. But the coaching has been even worse, and that's something that a team can rarely overcome, whereas decent coaching CAN overcome QB deficiencies.
We lost @ Winnipeg 100% because of our QB. Game was won, he fumbled.

Outside of that, he was a whopping 16/30. 244 yards. 2 TDs. And of course the fumble that cost them the game.

I'll give you average on LD.

The rematch was putrid though. The offense produced one TD in that game and finished with 18 points. That doesn't cut it in the NFL, nevermind the CFL.

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10-29-2012, 10:06 PM
  #459
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We lost @ Winnipeg 100% because of our QB. Game was won, he fumbled.

Outside of that, he was a whopping 16/30. 244 yards. 2 TDs. And of course the fumble that cost them the game.
But the fumble wasn't a "QB issue" in the sense you're talking about. Any QB could have fumbled that ball, or any RB or receiver. It didn't happen because Jyles sucks as a passer.

Quote:
I'll give you average on LD.

The rematch was putrid though. The offense produced one TD in that game and finished with 18 points. That doesn't cut it in the NFL, nevermind the CFL.
The playcalling was what was putrid. We ran a bunch of awful 4-yard pass plays on 2nd and long after completely abandoning the run before the game even started. Joseph completed 80% of his passes in that game, really not much else he could have done other than audible out of Crandell's horrid plays. This was the game where Charles, Boyd, and Messam all dressed and each got about 2 carries. It was one of the worst coached games I've ever had the displeasure of attending.

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10-29-2012, 10:21 PM
  #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDO View Post
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spo...176075371.html

Unbiased article has Esks dead last in Canadian talent.

No QB.

No Canadians.

No chance.
From reading that its impossible to tell how or what are the determining factors in the ratings.
Still, any deficit in Canadian talent here would have to have a lot to do with the Macciocia years I would think.

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10-29-2012, 11:08 PM
  #461
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According to Rishaug, the Esks are sticking with Joseph for the last game...

I never thought I'd say this, but...

Go Stamps Go.

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10-29-2012, 11:22 PM
  #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDO View Post
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spo...176075371.html

Unbiased article has Esks dead last in Canadian talent.

No QB.

No Canadians.

No chance.
As much as you like poking at the Esks for anything they do the Esks do have Canadian talent. (Coehoorn, Chambers, O' Donnell, Mitchell) Along with Pasztor. Even if we rank last in Canadian talent according to this article that doesn't mean we have no Canadian talent as you stated. Also explain to me how they arrived at those numbers please.


On another topic, start Nichols PERIOD.

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10-29-2012, 11:41 PM
  #463
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I never thought I'd say this, but...

Go Stamps Go.

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10-29-2012, 11:48 PM
  #464
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Ditto.

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Old
10-29-2012, 11:55 PM
  #465
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Ditto.
Im sorry but I dont have a problem with people choosing not to support morons.

Starting Joseph this next game is about as bizarre a decision I have seen in this town in a long time, and there have been many just this season with the Eskimos.

Only an idiot does that, and if he is allowed to do it, and gets the support of management to do it, then they can all **** off.

This is actually worse than Maciocia.

Think about that.

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10-30-2012, 12:17 AM
  #466
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Im sorry but I dont have a problem with people choosing not to support morons.

Starting Joseph this next game is about as bizarre a decision I have seen in this town in a long time, and there have been many just this season with the Eskimos.

Only an idiot does that, and if he is allowed to do it, and gets the support of management to do it, then they can all **** off.

This is actually worse than Maciocia.

Think about that.
This is a decision made by a man who has no fear whatsoever that his job may be in jeopardy. Not that anyone expected him to be fired (this is Edmonton afterall, this city fires nobody), but it's clear that he's free to stick with his veteran QB with no worry that a loss will mean his head on the chopping block. Just pathetic. Not sure why I expect any accountability though, haven't seen that in Edmonton in many years.

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10-30-2012, 12:21 AM
  #467
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According to Rishaug, the Esks are sticking with Joseph for the last game...

I never thought I'd say this, but...

Go Stamps Go.
nope...I wanna see the Esks make it then get smashed by Ray and the Argos

please make it happen baby Jesus

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10-30-2012, 12:25 AM
  #468
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Im sorry but I dont have a problem with people choosing not to support morons.

Starting Joseph this next game is about as bizarre a decision I have seen in this town in a long time, and there have been many just this season with the Eskimos.

Only an idiot does that, and if he is allowed to do it, and gets the support of management to do it, then they can all **** off.

This is actually worse than Maciocia.

Think about that.
Um no. Lolz

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10-30-2012, 12:35 AM
  #469
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If they're not giving themselves the best chance to win, should we support it?

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10-30-2012, 12:40 AM
  #470
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If they're not giving themselves the best chance to win, should we support it?
You switch allegiances because you disagree with a coaching decision?

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10-30-2012, 12:45 AM
  #471
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You switch allegiances because you disagree with a coaching decision?
Think of it more as me cheering for the Eskimos to lose and changes to be made. I would have said whoever was playing the Esks. It just happens to be those goons from Calgary.

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10-30-2012, 12:50 AM
  #472
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Um no. Lolz
Yes it is, unfortunately for us. Even though we got bland stupid passes out to the flat for four yards when it was 2nd and 10 repeatedly, the confusion, constant procedure and time violation calls, refusal to use Nichols, carrying three backs and using none, trading a first round pick and a kicker for a kicker who played all of one play, the list goes on and on and on.

And it is largely a mess of their own making. They arent cleaning up someone else's mess. They did this on their own.

They deserve an empty stadium on Friday in protest. Nothing but the cold wind to greet them. Bunch of ****tards.

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10-30-2012, 01:07 AM
  #473
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Originally Posted by eskies4life View Post
As much as you like poking at the Esks for anything they do the Esks do have Canadian talent. (Coehoorn, Chambers, O' Donnell, Mitchell) Along with Pasztor. Even if we rank last in Canadian talent according to this article that doesn't mean we have no Canadian talent as you stated. Also explain to me how they arrived at those numbers please.


On another topic, start Nichols PERIOD.
Potential and talent are different things.

Do you think any one of those 5 would start on BC?

Exactly.

The only Canadian we have who would start on BC is Laurent, and he's been injured most of the season.

**** in one hand, wish in the other, tell me which fills up first.

We have a lot of maybes and a lot of hopefully's and maybe even some will be's.... but there's still, at best, one impact Canadian on the roster, and he's played what, 8 games?

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10-30-2012, 01:13 AM
  #474
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
From reading that its impossible to tell how or what are the determining factors in the ratings.
Still, any deficit in Canadian talent here would have to have a lot to do with the Macciocia years I would think.
They certainly didn't help.

That said, neither did trading draft picks for Inglis and letting Tim St. Pierre walk without an offer.

Neither did trading away a HOF QB without getting back a single impact player.

Neither did giving away a 1st round pick for a kicker worse than the one we have (that we traded away a HOF QB for).

Neither did failing to attract any kind of Canadian FA except for Rottier, who moved himself here.

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10-30-2012, 01:15 AM
  #475
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Rottier didn't move himself here. He seriously considered another western team.

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