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Keep Burke or not if it was your choice?

View Poll Results: Ye or Na
Yes 155 71.43%
No 62 28.57%
Voters: 217. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-29-2012, 08:16 PM
  #226
eyeball11
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Where a player was drafted is not at all a good idea to toss into an debate when the debate is about talent.

Some of the players listed would not be drafted until much later in the draft was to occur again....So are we going to build a Stanley Cup Winner using others cast offs?

I do not think so.
Does it help that 3 of them were All Stars this year while a 4th was all rookie and a 5th in the early going looks like he'll be dynamite?

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10-29-2012, 08:22 PM
  #227
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The vast majority of players that have a lengthy career in the nhl are drafted in the 1st round.
http://proicehockey.about.com/od/pro...ft_success.htm

So to claim that "Burke acquired a lot of players that were at some point drafted in the 1st round" is pretty much the same as saying "Burke acquired a lot of players".

When your team finishes 5th last after a four year "rebuild"... and your prospects are rated lower by BOTH the hockey news and HF...
well... Burke supporters have to at that point fall back on facts and statistics that don't really mean anything whatsoever.

Who cares that Burkes team sucks and we finish 5th last. Burkes... uh... hmmm... let me research some meaningless fact.... uhhh.... ok... found it... BURKE'S ACQUIRED A LOT OF PLAYERS THAT WERE DRAFTED IN THE 1ST ROUND.
Nevermind that EVERY team is largely made up of players that were drafted in the 1st round....

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10-29-2012, 08:23 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Does it help that 3 of them were All Stars this year while a 4th was all rookie and a 5th in the early going looks like he'll be dynamite?
All these great players and we still finished 26th .

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10-29-2012, 08:26 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Who said they are weak and sad?

They are and were a good AHL team. Many vets to help. Just who were the leading scorers last year? The top players ( skaters ) from last year are not in the Leafs plans. What I'm saying is that the Leafs Prospects were not leading the Marlie's. That is the issue.
You sure about that?

Matt Frattin 13 10 3 13 1.00
Nazem Kadri 11 3 7 10 0.91
Philippe Dupuis 17 4 10 14 0.82
Jerry D'Amigo 17 8 5 13 0.76
Nicolas Deschamps 17 3 9 12 0.71
Jake Gardiner 17 2 9 11 0.65
Marcel Mueller 9 2 3 5 0.56
Joe Colborne 15 2 6 8 0.53
Mike Zigomanis 13 4 2 6 0.46
Greg Scott 17 3 2 5 0.29
Ryan Hamilton 17 2 3 5 0.29
Korbinian Holzer 17 1 4 5 0.29

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10-29-2012, 08:27 PM
  #230
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Now you know how everyone else feels when reading your posts.

doogie howser,

i don't read your posts (accept for now).

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10-29-2012, 08:28 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
All these great players and we still finished 26th .
I wonder how many teams I could name with great players who finished near the bottom of the league. Gee, this should be difficult.....

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10-29-2012, 08:31 PM
  #232
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when i think of our all stars it's just a slap in the face. they're all 1-dimensional. there will be no champions in T.O. with these guys. If we trade Kessel for our top Center (someone with a complete game) that might be a start.

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10-29-2012, 08:34 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
The vast majority of players that have a lengthy career in the nhl are drafted in the 1st round.
http://proicehockey.about.com/od/pro...ft_success.htm

So to claim that "Burke acquired a lot of players that were at some point drafted in the 1st round" is pretty much the same as saying "Burke acquired a lot of players".

When your team finishes 5th last after a four year "rebuild"... and your prospects are rated lower by BOTH the hockey news and HF...
well... Burke supporters have to at that point fall back on facts and statistics that don't really mean anything whatsoever.

Who cares that Burkes team sucks and we finish 5th last. Burkes... uh... hmmm... let me research some meaningless fact.... uhhh.... ok... found it... BURKE'S ACQUIRED A LOT OF PLAYERS THAT WERE DRAFTED IN THE 1ST ROUND.
Nevermind that EVERY team is largely made up of players that were drafted in the 1st round....
You may want to look a little deeper into that....

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10-29-2012, 08:36 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
NO I Think Kessel v Tavares is much closer than Skinner or Max Pac.

Seeing as how Kessel out scores Tavares and is a franchise player in his own right.
um no when we traded for kessel he was a 60pt 30g winger with the opportunity to improve, which is what the 2 guys I post are... he was not a franchise center putting up 80 pts... and Kessel is not a franchise player.

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10-29-2012, 08:38 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
um no when we traded for kessel he was a 60pt 30g winger with the opportunity to improve, which is what the 2 guys I post are... he was not a franchise center putting up 80 pts... and Kessel is not a franchise player.
When we traded for Kessel he was coming off 42 goals in 81 GP.

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10-29-2012, 08:39 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
I wonder how many teams I could name with great players who finished near the bottom of the league. Gee, this should be difficult.....
Well name them then . I'd really love to know how many teams you could name with at least 5 great players like you think the Leafs have that finished in the lottery .

Or maybe the reason we finished 26th is because all these great players Burke assembled arn't really that great .

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10-29-2012, 08:40 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Well name them then . I'd really love to know how many teams you could name with at least 5 great players like you think the Leafs have that finished in the lottery .

Or maybe the reason we finished 26th is because all these great players Burke assembled arn't really that great .
Go look at rebuilding teams.

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10-29-2012, 08:42 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
When we traded for Kessel he was coming off 42 goals in 81 GP.
And yet Burke didn't think he was worth Kabs and the 7th overall at the draft .

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Old
10-29-2012, 08:44 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Go look at rebuilding teams.
Maybe you should because you're the who brought it up and why would a team be rebuilding if it already had 5 stars .

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10-29-2012, 08:45 PM
  #240
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Go look at rebuilding teams.
I am sure they finished 5th last by design.

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10-29-2012, 08:52 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
The same Marlies team that were finaists for the Calder Cup last year? Very weak and sad.
This is what I'm talking about when I say that Burke supporters rely on spin and rhetoric to make their arguments.

The 2007-2008 marlies (JFJ's last season) had a RIDICULOUSLY great season. They had 109 points and went to the 3rd round of the playoffs, losing to the Calder Cup champions Chicago Wolves.

What do Burke supporters say about that team?
"Empty Cupboards". "Who cares about the Marlies Performance, Burke was left with NOTHING."


The 2011 Marlies get 96 points (13 less points), and win one whole whopping extra round in the playoffs, and it's used to show that Burke has built a fantastic prospect base worthy of extending his contract.

It's intellectual dishonesty. These people are not interested in the truth or in facts/evidence.
They've decided long ago that they support Burke, and for some unknown reason won't allow facts to get in the way of that. They will spin, lie, and twist logic whenever necessary to prove their argument, because finding truth clearly matters less to them.

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10-29-2012, 08:54 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Maybe you should because you're the who brought it up and why would a team be rebuilding if it already had 5 stars .
Last I checked, most NHL teams consist of more than 5 players.

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10-29-2012, 08:58 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
This is what I'm talking about when I say that Burke supporters rely on spin and rhetoric to make their arguments.

The 2007-2008 marlies (JFJ's last season) had a RIDICULOUSLY great season. They had 109 points and went to the 3rd round of the playoffs, losing to the Calder Cup champions Chicago Wolves.

What do Burke supporters say about that team?
"Empty Cupboards". "Who cares about the Marlies Performance, Burke was left with NOTHING."


The 2011 Marlies get 96 points (13 less points), and win one whole whopping extra round in the playoffs, and it's used to show that Burke has built a fantastic prospect base worthy of extending his contract.

It's intellectual dishonesty. These people are not interested in the truth or in facts/evidence.
They've decided long ago that they support Burke, and for some unknown reason won't allow facts to get in the way of that. They will spin, lie, and twist logic whenever necessary to prove their argument, because finding truth clearly matters less to them.
A quick comparison of those two playoff teams will show you that one had its main contributions from young prospects of whom several are thought to have better than bottom line potential while the other had one player contributing decently who was thought to have higher than bottom end potential.

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10-29-2012, 09:00 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
And yet Burke didn't think he was worth Kabs and the 7th overall at the draft .
Given how much you guys whine about a 9th, this place would be unbearable over a 7th.

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10-29-2012, 09:00 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
The vast majority of players that have a lengthy career in the nhl are drafted in the 1st round.
http://proicehockey.about.com/od/pro...ft_success.htm

So to claim that "Burke acquired a lot of players that were at some point drafted in the 1st round" is pretty much the same as saying "Burke acquired a lot of players"..
Remember when JFJ acquired and filled his post lockout teams with former mostly Top 10 picks in previous drafts?

Eric Lindros - (round 1 #1 overall 1991 NHL Entry Draft)
Jason Allison - (round 1 #17 overall 1993 NHL Entry Draft)
Jeff O'Neal - (round 1 #5 overall 1994 NHL Entry Draft)
Luke Richardson - (round 1 #7 overall 1987 NHL Entry Draft)
Mark Bell - (round 1 #8 overall 1998 NHL Entry Draft)
Boyd Devereaux - (round 1 #6 overall 1996 NHL Entry Draft)
Chad Kilger - (round 1 #4 overall 1995 NHL Entry Draft)

Wow look at all those high picks !!!! No GM had acquired more former 1st rounders during that time 2005-2007.

PS.. That doesn't even include pre-lockout HHOF players like Brian Leetch and Ron Francis etc etc in JFJ body of work collecting former 1st rounders.

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Last edited by Mess: 10-29-2012 at 09:10 PM.
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10-29-2012, 09:01 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Last I checked, most NHL teams consist of more than 5 players.
Are you now saying the rest of the team is pure crap and needs to be replaced ?

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Old
10-29-2012, 09:03 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Given how much you guys whine about a 9th, this place would be unbearable over a 7th.
Nice cop out but pretty much what i'd expect from the supporters .

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10-29-2012, 09:04 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Remember when JFJ acquired and filled his post lockout teams with former mostly Top 10 picks in previous drafts?

Eric Lindros - (round 1 #1 overall 1991 NHL Entry Draft)
Jason Allison - (round 1 #17 overall 1993 NHL Entry Draft)
Jeff O'Neal - (round 1 #5 overall 1994 NHL Entry Draft)
Luke Richardson - (round 1 #7 overall 1987 NHL Entry Draft)
Mark Bell - (round 1 #8 overall 1998 NHL Entry Draft)
Boyd Devereaux - (round 1 #6 overall 1996 NHL Entry Draft)
Chad Kilger - (round 1 #4 overall 1995 NHL Entry Draft)

Wow look at all those high picks, no GM had acquired more 1st rounders during that time 2005-2007.
...because most of those guys were young and developing and didn't have MAJOR issues, right?

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10-29-2012, 09:04 PM
  #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
The vast majority of players that have a lengthy career in the nhl are drafted in the 1st round.
http://proicehockey.about.com/od/pro...ft_success.htm

So to claim that "Burke acquired a lot of players that were at some point drafted in the 1st round" is pretty much the same as saying "Burke acquired a lot of players".

When your team finishes 5th last after a four year "rebuild"... and your prospects are rated lower by BOTH the hockey news and HF...
well... Burke supporters have to at that point fall back on facts and statistics that don't really mean anything whatsoever.

Who cares that Burkes team sucks and we finish 5th last. Burkes... uh... hmmm... let me research some meaningless fact.... uhhh.... ok... found it... BURKE'S ACQUIRED A LOT OF PLAYERS THAT WERE DRAFTED IN THE 1ST ROUND.
Nevermind that EVERY team is largely made up of players that were drafted in the 1st round....
Too bad. The people have decided. Burke stays.

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10-29-2012, 09:05 PM
  #250
eyeball11
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Are you now saying the rest of the team is pure crap and needs to be replaced ?
A lot of them will be replaced soon with big and strong but more importantly, there are still holes to address.

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