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Old
10-26-2012, 08:49 PM
  #801
KINGS17
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
Players off the ice are just the same as on the ice. They want to win at everything. And I get the impression a lot of them see the owners as people who don't put in the work that they put in to make whatever they can get out of the whole deal. Which is their prerogative just as it is the owners to tell them that they don't deserve any more than they've offered.



This is absolutely incorrect and with regards to a majority of the rest, sorry, you couldn't be more wrong about a lot of that. I am strictly speaking with regard to the anti-union rhetoric here. The players take risks of being injured by lunatics that for some reason the NHL front office protect rather than throw them out of the league (the union is also implicit in this because they help them do that). The majority of players also forgo educational opportunities to pursue their dream, but when it's over they have to go work back in their home town, dealing with all the injuries they've taken, with a 9 to 5 job just like the rest of us. I understand that the players are greedy but I don't know if I would be much different in their shoes. You have to get what you can while you can get it and this applies most to the rank and file, who aren't cashing 7 or 8 million dollar checks per year. Unions are a good thing for regular people and that applies to the majority of the players involved here as well. Their union has done a lot of good for them, it's hard to fault them for loyalty. But this is absolutely ridiculous.

I am extremely bitter and disgusted about this whole thing, frankly I don't know how enthusiastic I'll be whenever there is a season. A pin it all on one side viewpoint doesn't do it for me. I couldn't care less who makes what, but I think it would serve all of us to know what profits are actually out there to be had, and what the revenues really are. Opening up the books would do us all a service and help us to understand all this.

At this point though, of course revenues are going to go down and probably stay down, so the PA needs to dial back their expectations. There are no rule change gimmicks to help hockey out of the mess that has been created this time.
Bigger nets and smaller goalie pads and someone will be breaking all of Gretzky's single season records in no time.

What? Worked for baseball, and the players don't even have to get juiced.

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10-26-2012, 09:08 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Bigger nets and smaller goalie pads and someone will be breaking all of Gretzky's single season records in no time.

What? Worked for baseball, and the players don't even have to get juiced.
Nice!

I'm fed up with all this bs. Just like you said before, the owners will come back with a draconian proposal. If it were up to me, I would not only take guaranteed contracts off the table, but also make the players responsible for thier own expenses etc.

Pisses me off when players like suter come out and ***** about this. If they didn't know that this would happen, why did he negotiate a bonus of 10 mill for this year? This is the hypocrisy that continues to drive me up the wall.

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Old
10-26-2012, 09:25 PM
  #803
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Nice!

I'm fed up with all this bs. Just like you said before, the owners will come back with a draconian proposal. If it were up to me, I would not only take guaranteed contracts off the table, but also make the players responsible for thier own expenses etc.

Pisses me off when players like suter come out and ***** about this. If they didn't know that this would happen, why did he negotiate a bonus of 10 mill for this year? This is the hypocrisy that continues to drive me up the wall.
Yeah, I like how guys like Suter will say, "Well, the owners should control themselves." Then, his agent won't even answer the phone if a team isn't offering at least 10 years and $100M+.

Get it through your heads NHLPA. Without the CBA the owners can't "control" themselves because that would be called collusion by the NHLPA.

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10-26-2012, 09:34 PM
  #804
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Feeling like the Winter Classic is going to be the first game at this point, I'm sure this has been said but its only the fans are loosing during this. It's a real bummer.

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Old
10-26-2012, 10:53 PM
  #805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post

I am extremely bitter and disgusted about this whole thing, frankly I don't know how enthusiastic I'll be whenever there is a season. A pin it all on one side viewpoint doesn't do it for me. I couldn't care less who makes what, but I think it would serve all of us to know what profits are actually out there to be had, and what the revenues really are. Opening up the books would do us all a service and help us to understand all this.

At this point though, of course revenues are going to go down and probably stay down, so the PA needs to dial back their expectations. There are no rule change gimmicks to help hockey out of the mess that has been created this time.
Apparently the players did have an opportunity to look at the books sometime in the past twelve months but they missed the window. I read that inn one of the many lockout stories. I think it might have been around the time fehr was hired.

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10-27-2012, 01:12 AM
  #806
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Thanks for the in-depth analysis.
We need hockey back because I'm getting sick and tired of agreeing with everything you have to say.

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Old
10-27-2012, 12:37 PM
  #807
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Still don't care,


I am enjoying Premier League Soccer. It's actually gaining some traction in the U.S.

At least it looks that way. The Fox Soccer network shows almost the entire lineup of games per day.

Also that documentary they have running about Liverpool is pretty cool.

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Old
10-27-2012, 02:01 PM
  #808
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Old
10-27-2012, 02:34 PM
  #809
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He should have scored at least twice today man! Bah that hurt the fantasy team for sure.


But I agree with the above posted that it looks like the Winter Classic is now probably the goal as the first game. If they get to the point of canceling that then I think all is lost.

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Old
10-27-2012, 04:57 PM
  #810
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I have a feeling we're not having a season this year! Gosh I hope I'm wrong!

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Old
10-27-2012, 06:54 PM
  #811
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The NHL needs more than just financial reform.

The on ice product has been progressively getting worse over the past 3 or 4 seasons. This last season it was the worst it's been since the clutch and grab era IMO. It's not even about scoring; it's about the pace and flow of the games.

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Old
10-27-2012, 07:33 PM
  #812
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Kings won the Cup
I am feeling a little happy today. Maybe it is the burger and beer (2) I had for lunch, but I think a deal will be done by this time next week. I have no reason for this. Both sides know the end result is 50/50. The disagreement is how to get there. NHL says today but knows that without some rollback or delayed payments it can not be done. The PA really just wants their money now. I say give it to them this year. It is too late to play games with dollars.
Both can't be done this year. This year needs a 55-57 percent going to the players. Both sides need this. Next year should be 52-54% and then 50% can happen
The other points are minor. There needs to be a length limit on contracts and how long term deal reflect on the cap. Those things can be worked out. The fact thatboth sides are still emailing/calling each other makes me hopeful that I will be watching a banner will be raised before 2013

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Old
10-28-2012, 03:31 PM
  #813
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Jack Johnson Rips The Owners On League-Hosted Blue Jackets Web Site

Jack Johnson Rips The Owners On League-Hosted Blue Jackets Web Site

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...ckets-website/

Quote:
October 28th, 2012... I want to work! I’m a professional athlete and I want to play hockey! In my chosen profession, I don’t have until I am 60 or 70 years old to do this job. My window of opportunity to play professional hockey is limited. If I’m lucky, I can play until I’m 40. I have been training as a hockey player my entire life, and I know it is a privilege to play in the NHL. So each month, each week, and each game that is cancelled is an opportunity I will never get back. This is the case for every NHL player. I value every day in this job and take my commitment to my team very seriously. I give it my all every shift. I come to play every night and I leave it all on the ice. This is my responsibility as an individual, an athlete, and a professional. I have a duty to my team, the organization that has given me this opportunity, and the fans in the stands to give them my best at all times. The concept that the owners are trying to dismantle existing contracts that they in good faith offered, signed, and committed to is appalling, unprofessional and disgraceful. I negotiated my own contract, without an agent, with the confidence and belief that the owner offering me that contract operated by the same convictions and principals as I do. During the summer, the players offered to play through negotiations and the owners locked us out. We want to play hockey! Where is the honor? I’m ready to play and uphold my end of the deal!

Ha ha, gotta love this one...as of 12:30 p.m., the post was still up on the Blue Jackets website.

Wonder how long it stays there?

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Old
10-28-2012, 06:09 PM
  #814
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wasnt the 50-50 deal without roll backs?

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10-28-2012, 06:59 PM
  #815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
wasnt the 50-50 deal without roll backs?
Yes, but the nhlpa doesnt care. They are running their propaganda campaign and facts don't help their cause.

The nhlpa is the side that is trying to rewrite their contracts by removing linkage to HRR. The NHL is honoring the contracts as written. The nhlpa doesn't want the masses to know the truth. If they repeat the misinformation enough, the masses will believe it. And it is working because the media is afraid to call them on it because they will lose interviews with the players when the NHL returns.

It would just take one article from bob mckenzie to set the record straight, but you won't see it. A few bloggers may talk about it, but not the "mainstream" media.

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Old
10-28-2012, 07:08 PM
  #816
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The lockout has forced me to listen to hardcore rap music. Bettman and Fehr, yo betta watch yo backs!

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Old
10-28-2012, 07:11 PM
  #817
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Still don't care,


I am enjoying Premier League Soccer. It's actually gaining some traction in the U.S.

At least it looks that way. The Fox Soccer network shows almost the entire lineup of games per day.

Also that documentary they have running about Liverpool is pretty cool.
can't get into soccer. i will watch it occasionally, but it doesn't have the appeal to me that hockey and football do.

one thing that i do absolutely like the premier league does and wish leagues did here, is the shuffling of teams up and down. you win/succeed, then you move up. you lose/suck, then you move down into a lower league. talk about incentive for players and teams as a whole to succeed. no longer would teams be allowed to field a team they know will lose, just for the sake of playing and selling tickets. you lose games and drop down, then the team will begin to lose big money sponsors.

imagine the thought each year of maybe having two teams move down and the top two AHL clubs move up to the NHL. logistics and arenas that are undersized aside...imagine how great it would be to see the likes of NYI and EDM knocked down a level.

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Old
10-28-2012, 09:24 PM
  #818
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Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
[...]
imagine the thought each year of maybe having two teams move down and the top two AHL clubs move up to the NHL. logistics and arenas that are undersized aside...imagine how great it would be to see the likes of NYI and EDM knocked down a level.
Let me tell you, it's something else. It's passion and heartbreak on a completely new level. I don't think it is economically viable in a league like the NHL, but it's nothing if not exciting and/or terrifying, depending on your situation

What is truly scary is having to go to the playoffs as a bad team where you compete against the best teams of the lower league. Now that's pressure. You're no longer playing for a shiny trophy, you're playing for your clubs right to compete at your current level and the money at stake could make or break your club. It's pure insanity.

My local hockey team won the Swedish Elite League (tier 1) in 1987. The year after they lost in the finals. The year after that THEY DROPPED DOWN TO THE TIER 2 LEAGUE! Can you imagine? Winning the cup, then competing again in the finals and suddenly a year later you're in the AHL playing against the Portland Pirates or whatever.
My team was going back and forth between the tier 1 and tier 2 leagues for a good while but could never establish themselves as a solid tier 1 team again. A few years ago, while blowing through money they didn't have in an effort to make tier 1 again they went bankrupt and was punished by being delegated to tier 3. And that's where they've been ever since. The hardcore fans are still here, but I doubt the crowds are even a quarter of what they used to be. That's what made it extra sweet to see the Kings win it, at least one of my teams are now successful

Sorry, got a little off track. But at least I'm talking about hockey, right?

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Old
10-29-2012, 09:18 PM
  #819
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I hate how this has changed my opinion of so many guys, due in-large part to twitter. Some guys like Quick try to play the victim by some of the stuff they retweet from other players, I like how Willie has steered clear of that though.

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10-29-2012, 10:05 PM
  #820
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Oh god shutup Jack. So pathetic, "you want to play hockey" thanks for the wonderful input. Your union was just offered a deal with no rollbacks, yet your continued greed prevents you from agreeing to it. And the "we wanted to play through the negotiations" BS. The owners aren't stupid and their memories aren't short, they know what happened to MLB in 1994, and you have the same idiot in charge of your union, and you expect them to play through it and have you guys strike right before the playoffs.

I'm just disgusted by the comments from Cammalleri, Johnson and Turco, it hurts me at how dumb these guys truly are.

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Old
10-29-2012, 10:15 PM
  #821
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I hate how this has changed my opinion of so many guys, due in-large part to twitter. Some guys like Quick try to play the victim by some of the stuff they retweet from other players, I like how Willie has steered clear of that though.
Dat veteran knowledge.

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Old
10-29-2012, 10:17 PM
  #822
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Oh god shutup Jack. So pathetic, "you want to play hockey" thanks for the wonderful input. Your union was just offered a deal with no rollbacks, yet your continued greed prevents you from agreeing to it. And the "we wanted to play through the negotiations" BS. The owners aren't stupid and their memories aren't short, they know what happened to MLB in 1994, and you have the same idiot in charge of your union, and you expect them to play through it and have you guys strike right before the playoffs.

I'm just disgusted by the comments from Cammalleri, Johnson and Turco, it hurts me at how dumb these guys truly are.
I wish the NHLPA wouldve put a gag order on their players like Bettman did with the teams.

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10-29-2012, 11:03 PM
  #823
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I wish the NHLPA wouldve put a gag order on their players like Bettman did with the teams.
The guy sure is starting to look a whole lot smarter than before me thinks.

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10-29-2012, 11:35 PM
  #824
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I wish the NHLPA wouldve put a gag order on their players like Bettman did with the teams.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattias View Post
The guy sure is starting to look a whole lot smarter than before me thinks.
Lot easier to shut up 29 old men that probably don't know what twitter is (and are occupied with other things), than hundreds of young bored young guys with nothing to do.

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Old
10-30-2012, 12:50 AM
  #825
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The guy sure is starting to look a whole lot smarter than before me thinks.

A whole lot smarter? Gary Bettman has driven the NHL straight into the ground. First, its bloody near impossible to catch a highlight on Sportscenter these days if you live in the United States. Kind of important because, you know, its the biggest sports network on the freaking planet. He has allowed the NHL to become a sports "punchline" among casual fans in the United States. He has presided over 3 consecutive lockouts. Has already lost one full year, with a STRONG possibility of another missed season. No other major professional sports league has suffered ONE. He has expanded to markets that are having trouble supporting teams, and is thus, one of the main reasons we are all in this mess. Continued to ignore the Canadian market, which would bring a significant increase in more revenue.

Further, this guy runs the NHL like a bloody Mickey Mouse league. Changes to the All Star Game every 5 years, not outlawing big plastic elbow pads and shoulder pads that have led to an increase in head injuries, not doing anything about no-touch icing, letting reporters interview coaches and players DURING the game. There is a reason us Canadians boo the tar out of this guy. I think we are qualified to know what is best for the sport. We are all lucky that the sport of hockey is so unbelievably great that it can hopefully outlast such an out of touch Commissioner, who does not act as a steward of the game, but as a watchdog over the owners' pocketbooks.

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