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Old
10-29-2012, 11:56 PM
  #826
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A whole lot smarter? Gary Bettman has driven the NHL straight into the ground. First, its bloody near impossible to catch a highlight on Sportscenter these days if you live in the United States. Kind of important because, you know, its the biggest sports network on the freaking planet. He has allowed the NHL to become a sports "punchline" among casual fans in the United States. He has presided over 3 consecutive lockouts. Has already lost one full year, with a STRONG possibility of another missed season. No other major professional sports league has suffered ONE. He has expanded to markets that are having trouble supporting teams, and is thus, one of the main reasons we are all in this mess. Continued to ignore the Canadian market, which would bring a significant increase in more revenue.

Further, this guy runs the NHL like a bloody Mickey Mouse league. Changes to the All Star Game every 5 years, not outlawing big plastic elbow pads and shoulder pads that have led to an increase in head injuries, not doing anything about no-touch icing, letting reporters interview coaches and players DURING the game. There is a reason us Canadians boo the tar out of this guy. I think we are qualified to know what is best for the sport. We are all lucky that the sport of hockey is so unbelievably great that it can hopefully outlast such an out of touch Commissioner, who does not act as a steward of the game, but as a watchdog over the owners' pocketbooks.
There we go, now all your rants make sense.

The second is "gold Jerry, gold"

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10-30-2012, 12:05 AM
  #827
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There we go, now all your rants make sense.

The second is "gold Jerry, gold"
I am not quite sure what you are arguing. Are you stating that what I am saying is not true? Are you arguing that because I said I was Canadian that somehow makes everything I wrote untrue? Are you saying that Canadians do indeed not deeply understand the NHL, its problems, and who's to blame for them? You can post emoticons, personal attacks, and try and show off your "wit" to the to the rest of the internet, but I am trying to have a discussion with everyone about the problems the NHL currently faces, and where some of the responsibility for those problems lay.

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10-30-2012, 12:59 AM
  #828
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I am not quite sure what you are arguing. Are you stating that what I am saying is not true? Are you arguing that because I said I was Canadian that somehow makes everything I wrote untrue? Are you saying that Canadians do indeed not deeply understand the NHL, its problems, and who's to blame for them? You can post emoticons, personal attacks, and try and show off your "wit" to the to the rest of the internet, but I am trying to have a discussion with everyone about the problems the NHL currently faces, and where some of the responsibility for those problems lay.
Discussion? You drop in every few days bash Bettman then leave. Rinse and repeat. The fact that you blame Bettman for there not being highlights on independently owned sports network is just evidence of this. And the fact that you think because you are Canadian you know whats best just screams some weird sense of hockey entitlement (though it does seem quite common on these boards)...Oh and every league has been changing around their All-Star games...guess every league is Mickey Mouse...hell the NFL is/might get rid of theirs...NFL still has problems with concussions....no change to there pads...still the biggest sport in the US. Oh and clearly such a minor thing as in game interviews is whats ruining the game...

If anything Bettman had been screwed by the owners of the 90's not being able to keep spending in check. If they had keep spending below the ridiculous 70% they were pre-cap players wouldn't be so spoiled like they are now. Its like a spoiled kid being pissed cause they had to settle for a BMW instead of Daddy getting them a Porshe.

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10-30-2012, 01:02 AM
  #829
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Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
I am not quite sure what you are arguing. Are you stating that what I am saying is not true? Are you arguing that because I said I was Canadian that somehow makes everything I wrote untrue? Are you saying that Canadians do indeed not deeply understand the NHL, its problems, and who's to blame for them? You can post emoticons, personal attacks, and try and show off your "wit" to the to the rest of the internet, but I am trying to have a discussion with everyone about the problems the NHL currently faces, and where some of the responsibility for those problems lay.
I think it's more the view that Canadians are somehow more qualified to know what is best for the sport..... And lets not forget that the Canadian market was in big trouble 10 years ago and that the government was pondering subsidizing teams.

And you do realize that a lot of the things you listed are voted on by GM's at meetings, and have nothing to do with Bettman, right? Like equipment changes and no-touch icing?

Interviews during the game? That was all NBC, and that kind of thing happens in all TV sports - basketball, baseball, etc (which is where they got the idea).

Bettman isn't perfect, but hockey has grown leaps and bounds since he took over, it surely hasn't been run into the ground.

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10-30-2012, 01:18 AM
  #830
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Discussion? You drop in every few days bash Bettman then leave. Rinse and repeat. The fact that you blame Bettman for there not being highlights on independently owned sports network is just evidence of this. And the fact that you think because you are Canadian you know whats best just screams some weird sense of hockey entitlement (though it does seem quite common on these boards)...Oh and every league has been changing around their All-Star games...guess every league is Mickey Mouse...hell the NFL is/might get rid of theirs...NFL still has problems with concussions....no change to there pads...still the biggest sport in the US. Oh and clearly such a minor thing as in game interviews is whats ruining the game...

If anything Bettman had been screwed by the owners of the 90's not being able to keep spending in check. If they had keep spending below the ridiculous 70% they were pre-cap players wouldn't be so spoiled like they are now. Its like a spoiled kid being pissed cause they had to settle for a BMW instead of Daddy getting them a Porshe.
The reason there are no highlights on the biggest sports network in the world is a direct result of Bettman's decision to take the NHL to a different network, versus (at the time Outdoor Life Network). I would like to remind you that at the time the other big attractions that were being show on versus were barefooted log rolling, redneck duck hunting, and the Tour de France. Instead of biting the bullet for the first television contract after the lockout, he decided to abandon ship, deciding the NHL would be better off being the marque attraction on a channel no-one had ever heard of. While it is difficult to deal with hypotheticals, there is no reason to think that the league would not have received the exact same television contract that it just signed with NBC had we stayed with ESPN, and we would be in a MUCH better place as to the casual sports fan in the US.

As to some sort of entitlement on my behalf.. This is not an argument that I feel is worth responding to, or something that we should be debating, but I guess I will bite. Canadians', by and large, understand the game on a deeper level than a lot of fans in the US. I am not saying I understand the game more than YOU, or a lot of people on these boards, but I am saying that Hockey is a Canadian sport, there is no arguing with that. The sport means something to our national identity. There is absolutely no disputing that.

So, if you want to be Gary Bettmans butt-boy, be my guest. I think a lot of people think that a lot of his decisions, and the way he runs the league generally, has been a shade above incompetent. Because honestly, the real problem in all of this are those greedy players. You know, the ones who gave back 25% of their contracts the last time, agreed to a hard salary cap system, are willing to give up only concessions without anything in return, and are generally regarded as one of the nicer professional athletes in all of pro sports. But really, its all their fault. Right?

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10-30-2012, 02:44 AM
  #831
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It amuses me that there are still people out there who think thank Gary Bettman acts in some kind of vacuum without the approval of the NHL owners...

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10-30-2012, 02:47 AM
  #832
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Spare me about the players giving up so much in the last deal.

The Kings just committed almost $7 in salary to two of our UFA forwards who combined to score 38 points last year.

The floor is higher than the cap was in 2007.

The players were doing just fine, especially in this terrible economy. Their greed or should I say the greed of their representatives is going to do more harm than any of these idiots like Cammy realize.

Instead of listening to the lies and propaganda of the Fehr brothers they should be listening to guys like Modano and Roenick who needlessly lost millions of dollars in salary for nothing.

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10-30-2012, 05:21 AM
  #833
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Spare me about the players giving up so much in the last deal.

The Kings just committed almost $7 in salary to two of our UFA forwards who combined to score 38 points last year.

The floor is higher than the cap was in 2007.

The players were doing just fine, especially in this terrible economy. Their greed or should I say the greed of their representatives is going to do more harm than any of these idiots like Cammy realize.

Instead of listening to the lies and propaganda of the Fehr brothers they should be listening to guys like Modano and Roenick who needlessly lost millions of dollars in salary for nothing.
What Herby just said ....

plus

The players may have fought against the Salary Cap in the last lockout and lost that part of the battle, but they did gain a lot of additional rights with regards to Free Agency. Rather than hitting Free Agency at 31 players not come up unrestricted at 28, 27 or even 26. In their prime. So they can hit the market and earn 100 million dollar contracts.

Itís fair that you donít like Bettman. I am not a fan. But, for the players, things have been getting better and better for them under his rule for as long as I can remember. The amount of dollars paid out in salaries has improved to the tune of close to 1 billion dollars since the last lockout. Per year. And there has been a significant increase in jobs for pro hockey players with expansions. That is actually also in the NHLPA's interest. Letís not fall for their sweat-shop comparison. Poor little rich man.

The players declared war when they hired Donald Fehr. There was no chance in hell these negotiations would ever end Ēon timeĒ. They could have started negotiating 3 years ago and it would still be a lockout situation with the two sides fighting a PR battle as the season drags on. Itís a game of chicken, waiting for the other side to flinch.

The players *****ed up completely when they didnít leap at the chance to get a full 82 game season in and retain their salaries in some shape or form. The agreement was right there to be made. Theyíll be fortunate to get a deal equal to the ones they could have had last week.

All they can win now is a Pyrrhic victory.


Personally,
I still think the deal was right there in front of them if they had any sense. The players could have maintained with their current salary of 1.872 billion dollars for a few years Ö let the growth of the league fall to the owners until they reached a 50-50 split. Win for both sides.

But, theyíre all idiots. Owners, players, agents, Bettman, Fehr.

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10-30-2012, 08:31 AM
  #834
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A whole lot smarter? Gary Bettman has driven the NHL straight into the ground. First, its bloody near impossible to catch a highlight on Sportscenter these days if you live in the United States. Kind of important because, you know, its the biggest sports network on the freaking planet. He has allowed the NHL to become a sports "punchline" among casual fans in the United States. He has presided over 3 consecutive lockouts. Has already lost one full year, with a STRONG possibility of another missed season. No other major professional sports league has suffered ONE. He has expanded to markets that are having trouble supporting teams, and is thus, one of the main reasons we are all in this mess. Continued to ignore the Canadian market, which would bring a significant increase in more revenue.

Further, this guy runs the NHL like a bloody Mickey Mouse league. Changes to the All Star Game every 5 years, not outlawing big plastic elbow pads and shoulder pads that have led to an increase in head injuries, not doing anything about no-touch icing, letting reporters interview coaches and players DURING the game. There is a reason us Canadians boo the tar out of this guy. I think we are qualified to know what is best for the sport. We are all lucky that the sport of hockey is so unbelievably great that it can hopefully outlast such an out of touch Commissioner, who does not act as a steward of the game, but as a watchdog over the owners' pocketbooks.
Gear down there big rig. How on earth has Bettman driven the league into the ground? Adding the winter classic, allowing Winnipeg to return to form, changing up the stale all-star game have all been great for the league. How is it a punchline? I noticed a few blunders by announcers over the 'Doty' thing, but overall there was a terrific amount of positive attention from the media over the Kings Stanley cup league.

You really come across as one of those xenophobic Canadians I go to University with. The ones that keep bragging about Mike Richards and how Saskatoon should be given a team. Do you even know what went down between Sportscenter and the NHL? For all you know it could have been the worst deal for the NHL so Bettman went for another network.

NBA just had a strike. Imagine if Fehr was heading that one, I could still see it going on.
NFL just had a referee strike, thankfully that was resolved after a few too many Seahawk touchdowns.

You can focus your bigotry on Bettman much as you want, but when players are posting spoilt messages on twitter and websites; Bettman becomes much more likeable.

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Old
10-30-2012, 08:49 AM
  #835
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As to some sort of entitlement on my behalf.. This is not an argument that I feel is worth responding to, or something that we should be debating, but I guess I will bite. Canadians', by and large, understand the game on a deeper level than a lot of fans in the US. I am not saying I understand the game more than YOU, or a lot of people on these boards, but I am saying that Hockey is a Canadian sport, there is no arguing with that. The sport means something to our national identity. There is absolutely no disputing that.


So I guess my growing up in Minnesota and being in hockey rinks most of my young life (along with a huge number of other young people in this state) was all for naught because we'll never "get" hockey like the Canadians do... I mean nevermind that the state shuts down one weekend a year during the Boys State High School hockey tournament, or that they broadcast high school hockey games on the locel tv stations here. We clearly don't have the same connection to the sport as Canada.

Just stop trying to make this arguement, please, just stop. Hockey may have started in Canada but at this point the game has grown beyond being a Canadian thing. People all over the world grow up with the same connection to the sport of hockey nowadays that people in Canada have. I know a guy that grew up in Halifax had never heard of the Mooseheads and then moved to Calgary and had no idea that the Flames played there until I told him...

A large number of people in Canada have a strong connection to the game, that's very true. But it's no different than what kids in Minnesota grow up with, or what kids in Sweden post Peter Forsberg in the NHL grow up with. What about the kids in California that grew up watching Gretzky in the 90's? Guys like Emerson Etem, Beau Bennett, and all the other roller hockey players? Yep same connection to the game that your average Canadian has. The young Russian kids that play in the KHL that grew up watching and wanting to be guys like Mogilny, Tretiak, Bure, Fetisov in the Soviet Russia days? Same connection to the game of hockey.

The sport of hockey has grown beyond being simply a Canadian thing at this point. It's an international game that has international appeal. I understand that hockey was born in Canada, and that it's a big part of the country's history. But hockey belongs to the world at this point, and as far as I'm concerned you can get off your high horse and join the rest of us in enjoying the game Canada has given all of us or you can continue to be a miserable stuck up snob with a feeling of superiority just because you were born somewhere that thinks he knows what's best for "his" game. One of those is a lot more fun than the other is.

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10-30-2012, 10:33 AM
  #836
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Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
The reason there are no highlights on the biggest sports network in the world is a direct result of Bettman's decision to take the NHL to a different network, versus (at the time Outdoor Life Network). I would like to remind you that at the time the other big attractions that were being show on versus were barefooted log rolling, redneck duck hunting, and the Tour de France. Instead of biting the bullet for the first television contract after the lockout, he decided to abandon ship, deciding the NHL would be better off being the marque attraction on a channel no-one had ever heard of. While it is difficult to deal with hypotheticals, there is no reason to think that the league would not have received the exact same television contract that it just signed with NBC had we stayed with ESPN, and we would be in a MUCH better place as to the casual sports fan in the US.
You must have never watches hockey on ESPN.
Their coverage was horrible.

Leaving ESPN was the best thing the NHL ever did

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10-30-2012, 11:00 AM
  #837
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The reason there are no highlights on the biggest sports network in the world is a direct result of Bettman's decision to take the NHL to a different network, versus (at the time Outdoor Life Network). I would like to remind you that at the time the other big attractions that were being show on versus were barefooted log rolling, redneck duck hunting, and the Tour de France. Instead of biting the bullet for the first television contract after the lockout, he decided to abandon ship, deciding the NHL would be better off being the marque attraction on a channel no-one had ever heard of. While it is difficult to deal with hypotheticals, there is no reason to think that the league would not have received the exact same television contract that it just signed with NBC had we stayed with ESPN, and we would be in a MUCH better place as to the casual sports fan in the US.
There is also no reason to believe they would (have the contract with NBC). The FACT of the matter is the NHL made a bold move signing with a 3rd rate network that in turn built itself up to the point where they now will be competing with the big dogs in the same field on the backs of the NHL and it turned into a national TV deal that wasn't there after the lockout. You can say what coulda or woulda happened but the bottom line is we know what did happen and that has been a pretty good decision.

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As to some sort of entitlement on my behalf.. This is not an argument that I feel is worth responding to, or something that we should be debating, but I guess I will bite. Canadians', by and large, understand the game on a deeper level than a lot of fans in the US. I am not saying I understand the game more than YOU, or a lot of people on these boards, but I am saying that Hockey is a Canadian sport, there is no arguing with that. The sport means something to our national identity. There is absolutely no disputing that.
There is no correlation to where you are born and your knowledge of ANY topic so spare me as to where you were born. There are plenty of people in Canada that don't have the same opinion as you do. My Mom is Canadian so does that make me half hockey-smart?

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So, if you want to be Gary Bettmans butt-boy, be my guest. I think a lot of people think that a lot of his decisions, and the way he runs the league generally, has been a shade above incompetent. Because honestly, the real problem in all of this are those greedy players. You know, the ones who gave back 25% of their contracts the last time, agreed to a hard salary cap system, are willing to give up only concessions without anything in return, and are generally regarded as one of the nicer professional athletes in all of pro sports. But really, its all their fault. Right?
It isn't about being Bettman's butt boy. It isn't about Bettman at all for me. It is about not understanding the players position and their distortion of facts. Things like "honor the contracts the owners signed", saying the league won't budge from its position when the opposite is true and holding out for what exactly? I and many others have said about 100 times on here and nobody seems to want to acknowledge on the flipside, the players WILL come out of this worse financially. They are going to forfeit money they'll never get back. So what exactly are they trying to accomplish? Are the pioneers for future generations of pro hockey players?

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10-30-2012, 11:04 AM
  #838
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As to some sort of entitlement on my behalf.. This is not an argument that I feel is worth responding to, or something that we should be debating, but I guess I will bite. Canadians', by and large, understand the game on a deeper level than a lot of fans in the US. I am not saying I understand the game more than YOU, or a lot of people on these boards, but I am saying that Hockey is a Canadian sport, there is no arguing with that. The sport means something to our national identity. There is absolutely no disputing that.
Jesus ****ing Christ.

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10-30-2012, 11:30 AM
  #839
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It amuses me that there are still people out there who think thank Gary Bettman acts in some kind of vacuum without the approval of the NHL owners...
It amuses me that there are still people out there who think that if the NHL had grovelled back to ESPN for a ZERO dollar contract, that the NHL would be better off today, and that ESPN would somehow have done a better job than NBCSN.

ok, maybe only 1 person think this.

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10-30-2012, 12:31 PM
  #840
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There is also no reason to believe they would (have the contract with NBC). The FACT of the matter is the NHL made a bold move signing with a 3rd rate network that in turn built itself up to the point where they now will be competing with the big dogs in the same field on the backs of the NHL and it turned into a national TV deal that wasn't there after the lockout. You can say what coulda or woulda happened but the bottom line is we know what did happen and that has been a pretty good decision.



There is no correlation to where you are born and your knowledge of ANY topic so spare me as to where you were born. There are plenty of people in Canada that don't have the same opinion as you do. My Mom is Canadian so does that make me half hockey-smart?



It isn't about being Bettman's butt boy. It isn't about Bettman at all for me. It is about not understanding the players position and their distortion of facts. Things like "honor the contracts the owners signed", saying the league won't budge from its position when the opposite is true and holding out for what exactly? I and many others have said about 100 times on here and nobody seems to want to acknowledge on the flipside, the players WILL come out of this worse financially. They are going to forfeit money they'll never get back. So what exactly are they trying to accomplish? Are the pioneers for future generations of pro hockey players?
The NBC sports network is not, and will not be what ESPN is for a long,long,long time. They are an up and coming network, I will give you that, although I am sure there nightly ratings say otherwise at this point. Can you even remember the last time you watched that sports network, outside of watching an NHL game? I can't. I can remember, however, the last time I watched Sportscenter and ESPN, last night. They have a built in advantage that no other network can compete with. No disputing that. And it certaintly is not asinine or crazy to have the view that the NHL would probably be in a much stronger position among the casual US fan base if they were being shown 2-3 times per week on the ESPN networks, along with highlights of the nightly games being shown each night. Instead you have Linda Cohn and Steve Levy vocally opining every time they show an NHL highlight they are so rare. If you want to take the position that it is better to be the "big dog" on a second rate sports network, thats fine, but I REALLY think it is hard to justify that the NHL is benefitting more from such a partnership than if they were being broadcast into most sports fans homes in America almost every night.

As to the Canadian comment. Look, the broadcasters are better in Canada, the coverage is better in Canada, the game is a bigger deal in Canada, and most of the players in the NHL are Canadian. Now obviously there are going to be knowledgeable people in every country who understand the game. US, Europe, etc.. But I do not think it is wrong to say that Canadians, as a WHOLE, understand the game more than any other country. Sorry if that offends you (it shouldn't), but its the truth. Deal with it.

And finally, actually probably most importantly, this vague attack on the players and what is in their "best long term interests." I give you facts, the players are offering only concessions and asking nothing in return, and you return with what exactly? Can you please provide me with a rational argument as to why you think the NHL should be given EVERY concession in this negotiation. Who is really being unreasonable in all of this? I would be on your side if the Players wanted to continue the status quo, which by the way should not be considered an unreasonable position either, but they are not. They are willing to give in on pretty much every major issue. The problem is the NHL believes they are not giving in enough, and are trying to get MORE and MORE. The league has even made a fuss in the past about the players being allowed to play in the Olympics, because of its effects on their bottom line.

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10-30-2012, 12:52 PM
  #841
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I stopped taking you seriously when you said the players are only making concessions and giving up nothing in return. How is repeatedly guaranteeing themselves raises with their offers a concession? It's embarrassing when they claim they are looking out for the future interests when their proposals are much more detrimental to future UFAs than the NHL's most recent proposal is.

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10-30-2012, 01:08 PM
  #842
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My problem with these negotiations is since they aren't public, we don't know who to believe.

The owners proposal did reportedly ask for a lot of concessions from the players though Chazz

-12% pay cut
-UFA change
-loss of some arbitration rights


The players do have a legit beef here that they are the ones doing most if not all of the concessions.

Look back at the last lockout and the players did get some huge concessions to accept a cap and linkage.

This is ****ed because because both sides are blaming each other and sending mixed signals on things like HRR and the make whole provision.

This negotiations are too much like elections. Every one is full of **** and you don't know who to believe

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10-30-2012, 01:17 PM
  #843
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If something goes bad with the NHL, Gary Bettman gets all the blame. If something goes right with the NHL, he gets none of the credit.

As for the whole ESPN/OLN thing; does anyone really think that decision was solely made by Bettman? The owners probably wanted the OLN deal because it was more money. The extra revenue also resulted in a higher cap initially, which means the players got paid more because of the deal.

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10-30-2012, 01:22 PM
  #844
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The NBC sports network is not, and will not be what ESPN is for a long,long,long time. They are an up and coming network, I will give you that, although I am sure there nightly ratings say otherwise at this point. Can you even remember the last time you watched that sports network, outside of watching an NHL game? I can't. I can remember, however, the last time I watched Sportscenter and ESPN, last night.
I can, it was this kind of sort of big deal sporting event that happens like 4 years or so. Maybe you missed it in your fantasy world where everyone that's Canadian "gets" hockey, and where NBC is some tiny second fiddle channel... Understandable, it's not like the Summer Olympics are one of the biggest events in sports or anything (what exactly was ESPN broadcasting during this? Probably poker or the X-games or something.)

I mean you make it sound like NBC is some crappy local network and not the second biggest sports broadcaster after NBC. Which isn't the case at all. Your arguement, that you are passing off as fact, is little more than hypothetical scenarios and opinion. You continue to ignore more facts than you present in any of your reasoning and yet show up call all of us wrong and then provide no support to your claims.

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10-30-2012, 02:05 PM
  #845
HockeyCA
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Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
I can, it was this kind of sort of big deal sporting event that happens like 4 years or so. Maybe you missed it in your fantasy world where everyone that's Canadian "gets" hockey, and where NBC is some tiny second fiddle channel... Understandable, it's not like the Summer Olympics are one of the biggest events in sports or anything (what exactly was ESPN broadcasting during this? Probably poker or the X-games or something.)

I mean you make it sound like NBC is some crappy local network and not the second biggest sports broadcaster after NBC. Which isn't the case at all. Your arguement, that you are passing off as fact, is little more than hypothetical scenarios and opinion. You continue to ignore more facts than you present in any of your reasoning and yet show up call all of us wrong and then provide no support to your claims.
Your main argument is that you watched some Non-Primetime Olympics Coverage OVER 3 months ago? When was the last time you watched ESPN my good sir? Anyways, I think your missing my point. The point is not how bad Versus/OLN/NBC sports is, it is alright as a second tier sports network. It is the fact that Gary Bettman and the NHL decided it was in the leagues best interest to go to leave the biggest sports broadcaster to go there. Lets not forget it took close to 7 years for NBC sports to even exist. Before that we had the rediculously overrated and crappy versus network.

The NHL has decided that it is in the leagues best interest to be the "thing" on a second rate network. I fundamentally disagree with that. I think being a part of ESPN is the better way to go, and supplementing the Stanley Cup Playoffs on ABC which would rotate the NBA finals and the Stanley Cup on a nightly basis.

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10-30-2012, 02:09 PM
  #846
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Originally Posted by The Dingo View Post
My problem with these negotiations is since they aren't public, we don't know who to believe.

The owners proposal did reportedly ask for a lot of concessions from the players though Chazz

-12% pay cut
-UFA change
-loss of some arbitration rights


The players do have a legit beef here that they are the ones doing most if not all of the concessions.

Look back at the last lockout and the players did get some huge concessions to accept a cap and linkage.

This is ****ed because because both sides are blaming each other and sending mixed signals on things like HRR and the make whole provision.

This negotiations are too much like elections. Every one is full of **** and you don't know who to believe
This. I agree with everything you just said. No side is completely innocent in all of this.


Last edited by TP: 10-30-2012 at 03:39 PM. Reason: mod
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Old
10-30-2012, 02:25 PM
  #847
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I havent watched ESPN in a few years. I dont watch poker or cheerleading or strongest man contests. ESPN treated hockey like an alley cat. If there were some scraps maybe they would toss them out. ESPN made the choice to dump hockey. The NHL found a new channel that wanted them. If ESPN had offered half the money the OLN did the NHL would not have left. I for one am happy with NBCSN. They have dedicated programming and fairly good coverage. I would rather the NHL be on a station that wants/needs them then be the 19th choice on the station you get in hotel rooms

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10-30-2012, 02:31 PM
  #848
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ESPN opted out of their contract after the cancelled season, the NHL had no choice but to look for a network at the time. OLN/Versus outbid ESPN, and not only that, ESPN was going to put all of their games on the deuce (midweek), and show only the first 2 games of the final on ESPN. OLN/Versus offered $10M more per season, plus they would show games 3-7 of the cup final in prime-time. It made sense to change networks post-lockout.

ESPN tried to get the NHL back last year, but the NHL stuck with the network who showed faith in the NHL product after the lockout. ESPN basically bailed on the NHL when things went south, is that the kind of fair-weather partner you want for a network? Besides, even if the NHL got a contract with ESPN, the games wouldn't be on the network - they put them on ESPN2 or one of their alternates. The only time I ever watch ESPN is when they have their weekly football game. Every hockey fan knows that network has completely sucked for hockey after the NHL2Nite days.

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10-30-2012, 03:32 PM
  #849
KINGS17
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Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
The NBC sports network is not, and will not be what ESPN is for a long,long,long time. They are an up and coming network, I will give you that, although I am sure there nightly ratings say otherwise at this point. Can you even remember the last time you watched that sports network, outside of watching an NHL game? I can't. I can remember, however, the last time I watched Sportscenter and ESPN, last night. They have a built in advantage that no other network can compete with. No disputing that. And it certaintly is not asinine or crazy to have the view that the NHL would probably be in a much stronger position among the casual US fan base if they were being shown 2-3 times per week on the ESPN networks, along with highlights of the nightly games being shown each night. Instead you have Linda Cohn and Steve Levy vocally opining every time they show an NHL highlight they are so rare. If you want to take the position that it is better to be the "big dog" on a second rate sports network, thats fine, but I REALLY think it is hard to justify that the NHL is benefitting more from such a partnership than if they were being broadcast into most sports fans homes in America almost every night.

As to the Canadian comment. Look, the broadcasters are better in Canada, the coverage is better in Canada, the game is a bigger deal in Canada, and most of the players in the NHL are Canadian. Now obviously there are going to be knowledgeable people in every country who understand the game. US, Europe, etc.. But I do not think it is wrong to say that Canadians, as a WHOLE, understand the game more than any other country. Sorry if that offends you (it shouldn't), but its the truth. Deal with it.

And finally, actually probably most importantly, this vague attack on the players and what is in their "best long term interests." I give you facts, the players are offering only concessions and asking nothing in return, and you return with what exactly? Can you please provide me with a rational argument as to why you think the NHL should be given EVERY concession in this negotiation. Who is really being unreasonable in all of this? I would be on your side if the Players wanted to continue the status quo, which by the way should not be considered an unreasonable position either, but they are not. They are willing to give in on pretty much every major issue. The problem is the NHL believes they are not giving in enough, and are trying to get MORE and MORE. The league has even made a fuss in the past about the players being allowed to play in the Olympics, because of its effects on their bottom line.
Do I care? No, I know that the NBC Sports Network is going to have NHL games on it, especially all of the playoff games. I don't even think about ESPN unless I am looking for a pro or college football game.

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Old
10-30-2012, 04:43 PM
  #850
Butch 19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
Your main argument is that you watched some Non-Primetime Olympics Coverage OVER 3 months ago? When was the last time you watched ESPN my good sir? Anyways, I think your missing my point. The point is not how bad Versus/OLN/NBC sports is, it is alright as a second tier sports network. It is the fact that Gary Bettman and the NHL decided it was in the leagues best interest to go to leave the biggest sports broadcaster to go there. Lets not forget it took close to 7 years for NBC sports to even exist. Before that we had the rediculously overrated and crappy versus network.

The NHL has decided that it is in the leagues best interest to be the "thing" on a second rate network. I fundamentally disagree with that. I think being a part of ESPN is the better way to go, and supplementing the Stanley Cup Playoffs on ABC which would rotate the NBA finals and the Stanley Cup on a nightly basis.
And that crappy VERSUS network has treated the NHL better than ESPN ever did.

Now that we've had NBCSN for a few years and the product is getting better and ratings have jumped, you're getting nostalgic for ESPN...?

And OLN/VS may have been a 2nd tier network, but the instant they became NBCSN, they became a 1st tier player. But now, due to the NHLPA, they may get knocked down a few notches...

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