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Winter Classic has been cancelled.

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Old
10-29-2012, 11:04 PM
  #26
FissionFire
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Lockouts are a reality of sports when a CBA expires and both sides can't come to terms with a new one. MLB learned the hard way with the 1994 strike what happens when you let the players play under the old CBA while working on an agreement. Blaming the owners for the lockout is silly since it was a necessity created by both sides. Don Fehr would love nothing more than to really put the owners in a bad spot by striking in the middle of a season and forcing the playoffs to be cancelled just like he did in 1994. Everyone knows that's a tactic he'll employ, and that's why now in every sport when the CBA expires without a new agreement there is a lockout. It's simply standard procedure to prevent another disaster like the '94 strike.

Fehr has a long history of ****ing over fans, and I'd prefer no season at all to having the season suddenly stopped in January or February and the playoffs cancelled because of a strike.

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10-29-2012, 11:18 PM
  #27
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what a joke

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10-29-2012, 11:27 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
Lockouts are a reality of sports when a CBA expires and both sides can't come to terms with a new one. MLB learned the hard way with the 1994 strike what happens when you let the players play under the old CBA while working on an agreement. Blaming the owners for the lockout is silly since it was a necessity created by both sides. Don Fehr would love nothing more than to really put the owners in a bad spot by striking in the middle of a season and forcing the playoffs to be cancelled just like he did in 1994. Everyone knows that's a tactic he'll employ, and that's why now in every sport when the CBA expires without a new agreement there is a lockout. It's simply standard procedure to prevent another disaster like the '94 strike.

Fehr has a long history of ****ing over fans, and I'd prefer no season at all to having the season suddenly stopped in January or February and the playoffs cancelled because of a strike.
Lockouts are a reality if the owners choose them as a reality. Just like strikes are a reality if the unions choose to make them a reality.

This idea that a lockout is somehow unavoidable is complete and utter horsecrap and it speaks to the lack of leadership of Gary Bettman and the lack of trust the players have of Bettman and the owners.

Gary Bettman's track record as commissioner. 3 lockouts? And yet 18 teams are still losing money?

Fehr's allegiance isn't to the fans. There's no doubt about that.
But at the end of the day, Fehr has a record of competence.

Personally, I'll take option 2, where we start a season and RISK THE POSSIBILITY of losing the playoffs to a strike, over OPTION 1, where we are guaranteed a lockout.

The history of this league is that we've had one strike. And we didn't lose a single game.

To me, it's clear that lockouts are just run-of-the-mill operations for the owners.
As you suggest, they may be willing to go 2-years.

I hope they do. And I hope that next season we start to see the formulation of an alternative to the NHL.

And sure, that alternative won't pay as well as the NHL. And sure, the league won't be as good and won't be in all the cities and won't have the history.

But at this point, part of me wants to see the owners have their hundred million investments crumble to dust. I'm sick of all of them.

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10-29-2012, 11:36 PM
  #29
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The reality is prior to Fehr's 1994 stunt lockouts were rare. Owners and players would just play until a new deal was worked out. Fehr's stunt changed that culture completely and now no league is willing to risk a strike which is why lockouts have become unavoidable. Even the NFL had one during this last round of talks. It's the standard procedure now to prevent another 1994 situation. Owners only choose this reality now because Fehr showed all owners in all leagues what happens if you roll the dice and let the players dictate the rules of engagement in labor talks.

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10-29-2012, 11:42 PM
  #30
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Sorry CB but you point to the track records. Well Fehr has a 1 for 1 track record of going to strike when pretending he would play while trying to reach a deal. Nobody is going to let him do that again.

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10-30-2012, 12:19 AM
  #31
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I hope they do it here next year, and that they give people the option to hold on to their money and tickets for next year. I dont really wanna go through all that trouble to get tickets again.

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10-30-2012, 12:51 AM
  #32
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A lot of travel companies are going to lose their shirt on this. Remember reading a while back that a few companies figured they would go into bankruptcy if this happened.

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10-30-2012, 12:52 AM
  #33
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Sorry CB but you point to the track records. Well Fehr has a 1 for 1 track record of going to strike when pretending he would play while trying to reach a deal. Nobody is going to let him do that again.
Hahah.

Right.

So the lockout was caused by fear of Fehr. That's utter nonsense.

Baseball let Fehr do it again, didn't they?

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10-30-2012, 12:55 AM
  #34
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winter classic is the league's single biggest money making event of the season up until the playoffs and the players know this. scraping the winter classic will show the players that they aren't messing around.

it's also possible that since detroit is hosting the event and that illitch, who stands to gain the most from it, who is one of the most powerful figures on the board of governors. what better way to try to gain some leverage from the pa's standpoint than to hold one of the most powerful figures hostage.

it's the same thing with the new realignment plan in which detroit is one of the biggest beneficiaries of it and why the pa rejected it. once again holding illitch hostage.

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10-30-2012, 12:57 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
The reality is prior to Fehr's 1994 stunt lockouts were rare. Owners and players would just play until a new deal was worked out. Fehr's stunt changed that culture completely and now no league is willing to risk a strike which is why lockouts have become unavoidable. Even the NFL had one during this last round of talks. It's the standard procedure now to prevent another 1994 situation. Owners only choose this reality now because Fehr showed all owners in all leagues what happens if you roll the dice and let the players dictate the rules of engagement in labor talks.
There was nothing "stunt" about it.
That's just sort of biased language you're using.

There's lockout. And there's strike.

People act like it's some big deal to risk losing the playoffs after playing 80 percent of the regular season.

Well, it's a big risk to lose the whole freakin' season, too.


Here's all you need to know about the history of the NHL and the NHLPA

Total Games Lost
NHL Owners - 336 and counting + 1230 games + 468
NHL PA - 0

One side clearly, in my opinion, needs to be stopped, once and for all.

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10-30-2012, 12:58 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
A lot of travel companies are going to lose their shirt on this. Remember reading a while back that a few companies figured they would go into bankruptcy if this happened.
That's what happens when you rely on the NHL.

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10-30-2012, 01:02 AM
  #37
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Hahah.

Right.

So the lockout was caused by fear of Fehr. That's utter nonsense.

Baseball let Fehr do it again, didn't they?
Reading comprehension there CB, I was talking about the 94 MLB strike. It is the reason his comments about the we can play under the old deal were never taken seriously. We know he didn't make the decision to lockout the players but what he did in 94 forever changed how owners and leagues enter these discussions. By the way I hope the league puts together something that ends on July 1st. Should have learned that this year, allowing free agency was a stupid idea.

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10-30-2012, 01:14 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Reading comprehension there CB, I was talking about the 94 MLB strike. It is the reason his comments about the we can play under the old deal were never taken seriously. We know he didn't make the decision to lockout the players but what he did in 94 forever changed how owners and leagues enter these discussions. By the way I hope the league puts together something that ends on July 1st. Should have learned that this year, allowing free agency was a stupid idea.
Sounds like BOH Fehr-Mongering to me.
Shouldn't lecture me on "reading comprehension" RW19405.
Fehr continued to represent the MLB, did he not? Long after 1994. And didn't that league play without a contract?
Wasn't the entire 02 season played without a contract?

Isn't it kind of weird to suggest the NHL can't let a season start because of "FEHR!!!" when the league Fehr supposedly pulled his "stunt" on, let the players play at the end of the very next contract.

In fact, that's not even weird, really. It's sort of seems like propaganda.

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10-30-2012, 01:20 AM
  #39
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It should be noted, too, that Fehr went "nuclear" during negotiations when the owners were trying to win a "salary cap."

And the owners, rather than agree to the players' demands, decided to cancel the playoffs and world series, only to later cave on the PA's demands.

So it wasn't like Fehr went on strike to argue about 2,8 percent of HRR. he went on strike to prevent the owners from locking them out -- AS THE OWNERS DID in 1990.
Fehr likely knew the owners were going to lock them out and use scab players to start the season -- which they did.

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10-30-2012, 09:56 AM
  #40
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Here's a link to the e-mail that was sent out to ticket holders earlier this month concerning refunds:

Winter Classic Cancellation Policy

Policy from Red Wings' website

If the Winter Classic does get cancelled, then everything else associated with it will be cancelled as well. I am curious to see if Ticketmaster will be refunding the full amount (including order fees), or just the cost of the tickets. They are notorious about refunding ticket costs only, but I will be disputing the order fees with my credit card if they don't get refunded.
They're running things differently for season ticket holders and partial ticket holders. I am a partial and have not gotten any notification about returns. Only thing they did was stop my payments since I chose monthly payments.

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10-30-2012, 10:03 AM
  #41
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Wow, I felt extremly lucky to land tickets to both the WC and Alumni game as well as being forced to buy GLI tickets. NOW, I wasted time and energy in getting those tickets. REALLY disappointed right now. Makes me sick to my stomach as I was very excited like many for both. Not sure I give a crap about them coming back at all this year or even next.
That sucks...

Has their been any talk about them honoring the tickets if it's rescheduled next year? I can't believe they would screw people that bad.

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10-30-2012, 10:16 AM
  #42
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Where did you read that?
I think you're making that up. Or reading it from someone who is making it up.

The PA was in NYC all week waiting to talk tot he owners and the owners refused.
I'm not interested in finding the source. I may have remembered or interpreted it wrong. I don't care, it's not the point.

The general sentiment is that each side is trying to turn the fans against the other side. Each side is saying "WE are being proper polite negotiators and the other side is acting like babies". Well you know what, I don't care because the fans shouldn't be taking the PA's side, OR the League's side. The fans should have their own independent side, where we say "**** all the millionaires, give us back our hockey". We're working middle class and we're eager to throw money at the people who bring us our favorite form of entertainment, but when they start squabbling over who gets a bigger chunk of our paychecks I got nothin' more than 2 middle fingers to show them in reply.

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10-30-2012, 11:53 AM
  #43
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Pathetic.

I don't even know who to blame anymore. Admittedly, I haven't followed this whole process quite as closely as I maybe should have (too many other distractions in life right now), but man, the lack of progress at this point is nothing short of disgusting.

You'd think - you'd THINK - after 04-05, these idiots would've learned their lesson by now (both sides). Unbelievable.

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10-30-2012, 12:09 PM
  #44
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And the 40 bucks I paid to purchase two tickets to the WC...yeah, I want that back too. They are crooks if they don't refund that.

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10-30-2012, 01:51 PM
  #45
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This is sad and hilarious.

It's sad that the season is likely gone once the Winter Classic gets canceled. The owners obviously wanted a full season - we know that from their last proposal. So no full season plus no Winter Classic gives them nothing more than a shortened season with playoffs. All of their rhetoric to date makes that sound like a losing proposition for them. So we'll see if they pretty much throw in the towel on a shortened season.

The hilarious part is people basically cribbing from the owner's playbook on the big, bad Donald Fehr. Ken Holland gets ripped unmercifully on here but Gary Bettman, who has instituted three lockouts and signed off on two new CBAs that were apparently collossal failures, who has created the disastrous expansion of the league, and who basically took the sport off the radar of the casual sports fan, is rewarded by having hockey fans parrot his talking points.

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10-30-2012, 02:08 PM
  #46
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This is sad and hilarious.

It's sad that the season is likely gone once the Winter Classic gets canceled. The owners obviously wanted a full season - we know that from their last proposal. So no full season plus no Winter Classic gives them nothing more than a shortened season with playoffs. All of their rhetoric to date makes that sound like a losing proposition for them. So we'll see if they pretty much throw in the towel on a shortened season.

The hilarious part is people basically cribbing from the owner's playbook on the big, bad Donald Fehr. Ken Holland gets ripped unmercifully on here but Gary Bettman, who has instituted three lockouts and signed off on two new CBAs that were apparently collossal failures, who has created the disastrous expansion of the league, and who basically took the sport off the radar of the casual sports fan, is rewarded by having hockey fans parrot his talking points.
What I'd like to know is, where are all the people who boo Bettman at hockey games?
They;re not on HFboards. If HFboards went to hockey games, the fans would be throwing rose petals at Bettman

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10-30-2012, 07:38 PM
  #47
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They're running things differently for season ticket holders and partial ticket holders. I am a partial and have not gotten any notification about returns. Only thing they did was stop my payments since I chose monthly payments.
Actually, I think your refund policy is the same. If you remember, the Winter Classic had to be purchased separately from your ticket package as they weren't included as part of your season tickets.

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Old
11-02-2012, 01:03 PM
  #48
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A day late, but it got cancelled.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/85...gs-source-says


Hope the players like the KHL, because they are going to be there for a VERY LONG TIME.

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11-02-2012, 01:26 PM
  #49
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A day late, but it got cancelled.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/85...gs-source-says


Hope the players like the KHL, because they are going to be there for a VERY LONG TIME.
That's fine with me.

If the owners don't want to have a league, I can keep saving money.

No Cable. No NHL Network. No Center Ice. No tickets.
I'm finding I can get enough hockey fix from KHL highlights.

If the NHL owners don't want fans to watch NHL hockey, well, good for them. Seems like a strange way to run a business.

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11-02-2012, 01:33 PM
  #50
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That's fine with me.

If the owners don't want to have a league, I can keep saving money.

No Cable. No NHL Network. No Center Ice. No tickets.
I'm finding I can get enough hockey fix from KHL highlights.

If the NHL owners don't want fans to watch NHL hockey, well, good for them. Seems like a strange way to run a business.
Good for you, but the players are potentially losing a significant amount of their pay if the NHL folds. KHL and those other Euro leagues can't compete with the current NHL salaries and even the most recent CBA proposal by the owners.

Heck the majority of the league would not be able to find work. Sure the superstars would head over, but those 3rd/4th liners would eventually run out of roster spots.

The irony is they would reject a deal that pay's them more, but go to the KHL/Europe which pays them less and doesnt offer the same job security or "staying alive" security.

That ego has gotta be put aside when you are in a lose/lose even more situation.

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