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Was the Vancouver Canucks "wussiness" great over exaggerated?

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10-29-2012, 09:36 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Rocko604 View Post
If the Canucks didn't lose Hamhuis and the hit on Horton doesn't happen, it's a completely different series. Not saying the Canucks would have won, but those two circumstances benefited the Bruins greatly.

Losing Hamhuis was a huge to the Canucks, and the hit on Horton was like punching a guy who was already knocked out and about hit the canvas: You woke him up and made him angry.
Maybe...But the Canucks only scored 8 goals in 7 games. Maybe if Burrows is suspended for game 2 for his clear bite on Bergeron the Bruins win Game 2 and win the Cup in 5 games.

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10-29-2012, 09:42 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Rocko604 View Post
If the Canucks didn't lose Hamhuis and the hit on Horton doesn't happen, it's a completely different series. Not saying the Canucks would have won, but those two circumstances benefited the Bruins greatly.

Losing Hamhuis was a huge to the Canucks, and the hit on Horton was like punching a guy who was already knocked out and about hit the canvas: You woke him up and made him angry.
Bruins wore them down, they exposed them for what they were. Losing Horton wasn't a blow to the Canucks, it was a blow to the Bruins. But THAT Bruins team had a heart the size of earth and nothing was stopping them.

It was the most lopsided 7 game series ever played. It was never really close. The Canucks had 2 chances to close out the bruins and were outscored 9-2 in those games and were down 4-0 in both before they got a goal.

If not for some good goaltending by Luongo at home, it would have been much quicker.

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10-29-2012, 09:44 PM
  #103
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It's so hard to remove myself from the emotion of watching those games. It was such a great series, but had it gone the other way, I'm not sure I would have really felt the Canucks were the better team. Biases aside, I suspect that has to do with the Canucks being a bit different from hockey as I want to see hockey played. Does that necessarily translate to "wussiness?" I wouldn't say so. An annoying team? Yeah. Class acts on the ice? Not really. Wusses? Doubt it. If they were told to be tough, they'd have been tough. I think the goal was to have the refs handle it, not the players, because the PP was so important to their game.

I guess the real test would be having some of these lamented Canucks in a system like those of the Bruins or Kings and seeing how different of a game they'd play. No, the Sedins will never be Bruins Tough Guys, but if they were bears being poked, it probably goes a little differently. It's not that the Canucks are cultivating a culture of wussies, just that they're playing a game that relies on not being their own enforcers. Playoff refs will be very lenient if the players are handing things on their own, so it was key for the Canucks to not handle things well.

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10-29-2012, 09:47 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Justin St Pierre View Post
It's so hard to remove myself from the emotion of watching those games. It was such a great series, but had it gone the other way, I'm not sure I would have really felt the Canucks were the better team. Biases aside, I suspect that has to do with the Canucks being a bit different from hockey as I want to see hockey played. Does that necessarily translate to "wussiness?" I wouldn't say so. An annoying team? Yeah. Class acts on the ice? Not really. Wusses? Doubt it. If they were told to be tough, they'd have been tough. I think the goal was to have the refs handle it, not the players, because the PP was so important to their game.

I guess the real test would be having some of these lamented Canucks in a system like those of the Bruins or Kings and seeing how different of a game they'd play. No, the Sedins will never be Bruins Tough Guys, but if they were bears being poked, it probably goes a little differently. It's not that the Canucks are cultivating a culture of wussies, just that they're playing a game that relies on not being their own enforcers. Playoff refs will be very lenient if the players are handing things on their own, so it was key for the Canucks to not handle things well.
That's exactly what it is. That's how the got through the regular season, they are a PP team that needs help to win games.

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10-29-2012, 09:53 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
That's exactly what it is. That's how the got through the regular season, they are a PP team that needs help to win games.
I agree

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10-30-2012, 06:55 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko604 View Post
If the Canucks didn't lose Hamhuis and the hit on Horton doesn't happen, it's a completely different series. Not saying the Canucks would have won, but those two circumstances benefited the Bruins greatly.

Losing Hamhuis was a huge to the Canucks, and the hit on Horton was like punching a guy who was already knocked out and about hit the canvas: You woke him up and made him angry.
You have to add Kesler's injury to this mix. He had a huge regular season and was massive in the playoffs until he suffered his torn labrum in the last game of the Western Conference Finals. Afterwards he had but 1 assist for the entire series vs the B's.

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10-30-2012, 07:08 AM
  #107
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LOL at a bunch of fat out of shape cellar dwellers who call in sick to Dunkin Donuts with a case of the sniffles, calling any professional hckey player wusssies.

(and yes I'm middle aged, out of shape and could lose 10 pounds myself).

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10-30-2012, 07:09 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
You have to add Kesler's injury to this mix. He had a huge regular season and was massive in the playoffs until he suffered his torn labrum in the last game of the Western Conference Finals. Afterwards he had but 1 assist for the entire series vs the B's.
Yet when Bergy was clearly playing injured, Quaider out, Horton out, that wasn`t/isn`t valid reasons as to the B`s struggles this year against the Caps<< not saying you did this but many here are quick to point out reasons why other teams may not have been able to reach their goals and fall short yet when it`s the B`s who suffer big injuries it`s the ole "can`t use injuries as an excuse approach"

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10-30-2012, 07:12 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
That's exactly what it is. That's how the got through the regular season, they are a PP team that needs help to win games.
Similiar to the Lightning were/are, if the PP isn`t working or they aren`t getting PP chances, their irrelevant

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10-30-2012, 07:25 AM
  #110
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I'm not sure I understand the "need help" thing. Saying a team is too reliant on its pp is a legit criticism and probably does apply to that Canucks team.

However, (and I'm not talking specifically about that team now, just in general) it's not "needing help" to have officials call the rules of the game. If another team is breaking the rules by holding, obstructing, interferring, hooking, clutching and grabbing aren't THEY the ones who need help? I mean, they are relying on the refs to NOT call the rules as they are.

Call me crazy, but I'd rather see skilled players displaying their skill than unskilled players hugging guys who are better than them.

But back to the point of the OP: The B's won because their goalie was incredibly mentally tough and the Canucks goalie was the weakest minded goalie I've ever seen in a Stanley Cup final. That's not to discount the work that Bergeron et al did against the Sedins and Kesler's line, but put the goalies on opposite teams and the Canucks are champs.

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10-30-2012, 07:33 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I'm not sure I understand the "need help" thing. Saying a team is too reliant on its pp is a legit criticism and probably does apply to that Canucks team.

However, (and I'm not talking specifically about that team now, just in general) it's not "needing help" to have officials call the rules of the game. If another team is breaking the rules by holding, obstructing, interferring, hooking, clutching and grabbing aren't THEY the ones who need help? I mean, they are relying on the refs to NOT call the rules as they are.

Call me crazy, but I'd rather see skilled players displaying their skill than unskilled players hugging guys who are better than them.

But back to the point of the OP: The B's won because their goalie was incredibly mentally tough and the Canucks goalie was the weakest minded goalie I've ever seen in a Stanley Cup final. That's not to discount the work that Bergeron et al did against the Sedins and Kesler's line, but put the goalies on opposite teams and the Canucks are champs.
Good pts, I have to wonder as well how things would have shaped up if say the Bruins yes won their home games but not in the dominating fashion that they did??? Any way we cut it, Luongo`s play was about as poor as I`ve seen in a final from one goalie, the Flyers/Hawks final a few years ago produced the worst goaltending I`ve seen from both teams goalies but RL`s play had to have added to the Nucks will being broken.

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10-30-2012, 07:33 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
Yet when Bergy was clearly playing injured, Quaider out, Horton out, that wasn`t/isn`t valid reasons as to the B`s struggles this year against the Caps<< not saying you did this but many here are quick to point out reasons why other teams may not have been able to reach their goals and fall short yet when it`s the B`s who suffer big injuries it`s the ole "can`t use injuries as an excuse approach"
As Dr. Quincy noted, there isn't one of us who wouldn't have been totally incapacitated with what Kesler suffered, yet he soldiered on in the series. It proved him to be totally ineffectual and was a big reason why the Eunucks couldn't beat us.

And yes, it was Bergy's injury that was a factor in the B's falling vs the Caps last season, especially in the 7th game where he, our best face-off man, couldn't take more than 1 draw....Lucic and Marchand? Well, I surely would like to know what made them so ordinary in that series, especially given their reps as playoff studs.

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10-30-2012, 07:38 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
As Dr. Quincy noted, there isn't one of us who wouldn't have been totally incapacitated with what Kesler suffered, yet he soldiered on in the series. It proved him to be totally ineffectual and was a big reason why the Eunucks couldn't beat us.

And yes, it was Bergy's injury that was a factor in the B's falling vs the Caps last season, especially in the 7th game where he, our best face-off man, couldn't take more than 1 draw....Lucic and Marchand? Well, I surely would like to know what made them so ordinary in that series, especially given their reps as playoff studs.
I hear ya, but I`ve also watched far too many playoffs where I`ve seen Bruin players or otherwise just not have "it" when the playoffs arrive, whether it`s the fatigue, injury or an opponent who`s gameplan just stifles another teams approach. The Caps played constant Kitty by the door hockey and the B`s didn`t/couldn`t figure it out.

Was it frustrating?? Yep, but I never expect our boys to be able to dominate nor bring it all the time, it just isn`t reasonable. Watching the Nucks a bit last year in round one you could see them being suffocated by the Kings, those puck races that they would usually win they didn`t or couldn`t, not sure if the Kings had more will, or if the Nucks tank ran empty.

Most of us here will never know just how tough it is to be a player, march to then win the finals, then come back the next year, everyone gunning for ya. Not making an excuse, tis merely a reality, and why we just don`t see repeat runs to the Cup anymore these days

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10-30-2012, 08:14 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
I hear ya, but I`ve also watched far too many playoffs where I`ve seen Bruin players or otherwise just not have "it" when the playoffs arrive, whether it`s the fatigue, injury or an opponent who`s gameplan just stifles another teams approach. The Caps played constant Kitty by the door hockey and the B`s didn`t/couldn`t figure it out.

Was it frustrating?? Yep, but I never expect our boys to be able to dominate nor bring it all the time, it just isn`t reasonable. Watching the Nucks a bit last year in round one you could see them being suffocated by the Kings, those puck races that they would usually win they didn`t or couldn`t, not sure if the Kings had more will, or if the Nucks tank ran empty.

Most of us here will never know just how tough it is to be a player, march to then win the finals, then come back the next year, everyone gunning for ya. Not making an excuse, tis merely a reality, and why we just don`t see repeat runs to the Cup anymore these days
Watching the Caps infuriated me because they took well advantage of the NHL allowing the obstruction crap back in the game. The Bruins were not without guilt themselves but the Caps would've spent the entire series in the penalty box if the games were enforced like they had been in November or December. (It was late winter / early spring where I noticed things had changed).

Bergeron is one of the top 2 or 3 faceoff men in the NHL and it all came down to 1 OT goal, a game where he could barely hold his stick, nevermind being used at the faceoff circle. It may seem innocuous but the basic rule of thumb is this: possession is key, the other team can't score if they don't have the puck.

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10-30-2012, 08:17 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
I hear ya, but I`ve also watched far too many playoffs where I`ve seen Bruin players or otherwise just not have "it" when the playoffs arrive, whether it`s the fatigue, injury or an opponent who`s gameplan just stifles another teams approach. The Caps played constant Kitty by the door hockey and the B`s didn`t/couldn`t figure it out.

Was it frustrating?? Yep, but I never expect our boys to be able to dominate nor bring it all the time, it just isn`t reasonable. Watching the Nucks a bit last year in round one you could see them being suffocated by the Kings, those puck races that they would usually win they didn`t or couldn`t, not sure if the Kings had more will, or if the Nucks tank ran empty.

Most of us here will never know just how tough it is to be a player, march to then win the finals, then come back the next year, everyone gunning for ya. Not making an excuse, tis merely a reality, and why we just don`t see repeat runs to the Cup anymore these days
Up until last season, Marchand had excelled in the playoffs at every level he played. Last year was the first dud.... He didn't wake up until it was too late.

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10-30-2012, 08:55 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
LOL at a bunch of fat out of shape cellar dwellers who call in sick to Dunkin Donuts with a case of the sniffles, calling any professional hckey player wusssies.

(and yes I'm middle aged, out of shape and could lose 10 pounds myself).
I would never, and have never, complained about an injured player being a "wuss." They do indeed play through injuries that most people would find debilitating.

However, I will call a "wuss" any pro athlete who would stand like a mannequin and allow an obnoxious rat to repeatedly abuse him in a championship series game. As I've noted previously, I am a middle-aged woman and *I* would have smacked that little **** upside the head.

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10-30-2012, 08:57 AM
  #117
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Most 5th grade girls have a stronger backbone than that Vancouver team.

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10-30-2012, 10:03 AM
  #118
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Up until last season, Marchand had excelled in the playoffs at every level he played. Last year was the first dud.... He didn't wake up until it was too late.
Yep, hardly the first young NHL`er to do it. Not too concerned, didn`t like it at the time but I trust he won`t allow that to happen in back to back seasons, doesn`t mean he`ll do what he did during the cup run but...

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10-30-2012, 10:04 AM
  #119
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I would never, and have never, complained about an injured player being a "wuss." They do indeed play through injuries that most people would find debilitating.

However, I will call a "wuss" any pro athlete who would stand like a mannequin and allow an obnoxious rat to repeatedly abuse him in a championship series game. As I've noted previously, I am a middle-aged woman and *I* would have smacked that little **** upside the head.
No matter how many years from now, and what he accomplishes from here on out, point totals over a career etc....when speaking of him, virtually anyone/everyone will tell the "remember when Marchand abused him like a punching bag and he did nothing" line....not a great legacy to leave behind

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10-30-2012, 12:52 PM
  #120
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I hope to never read complaints when the Bruins end up short-handed because one of the Bruins retaliates to something. After all, not retaliating makes one a wussy.

I understand where people are coming from, but at the same time, I think the derogatory connotation of "wussy" is unnecessary. I see nothing wrong with the Canucks playing roles that maximize their game play and cater to their strengths. The Bruins do exactly the same thing, and it's somehow more honorable when the Bruins win because of it (as it resembles a tougher, more old-time hockey game) than when the Canucks do. Truthfully, they are doing the same thing: finding systems within the rules of the game to try to win it. Thankfully, the Canucks came up short, but not because they were "wussies." I think it's insulting to the Bruins to imply the Canucks were lesser or deficient. The Bruins, especially Tim Thomas, were just better in the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
LOL at a bunch of fat out of shape cellar dwellers who call in sick to Dunkin Donuts with a case of the sniffles, calling any professional hckey player wusssies.

(and yes I'm middle aged, out of shape and could lose 10 pounds myself).
Yeah. It's easy to say I'd fight back, but if I tried to take a swing while wearing skates, I'd fall over so hard.

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10-30-2012, 01:28 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
LOL at a bunch of fat out of shape cellar dwellers who call in sick to Dunkin Donuts with a case of the sniffles, calling any professional hckey player wusssies.

(and yes I'm middle aged, out of shape and could lose 10 pounds myself).
This argument is a pet peeve of mine.

It's all relative. Most fans also have no issue with saying fringe NHLers "suck" when said fringe NHLer could obviously skate circles around them. Were they wusses compared to the Bruins is the question.

Kinda like if I wasn't performing well at my job and screwed up a lot, someone is still in-bounds for saying I suck at it even if they couldn't do it half as well themselves.

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10-30-2012, 01:30 PM
  #122
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I'm agreeing with anyone who said that the Canucks lost when Hamhuis went down. We lost 25+ minutes a night of flawless defensive hockey, and those minutes were made up by guys who don't know how to play D - Alberts, Ehrhoff, Edler, Bieksa... Boston had an incredible forecheck, and the Canucks' offense-first (or defense-never) defensemen that remained got eaten alive.

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10-30-2012, 01:36 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I would never, and have never, complained about an injured player being a "wuss." They do indeed play through injuries that most people would find debilitating.

However, I will call a "wuss" any pro athlete who would stand like a mannequin and allow an obnoxious rat to repeatedly abuse him in a championship series game. As I've noted previously, I am a middle-aged woman and *I* would have smacked that little **** upside the head.
I guess I just played the game differently then you hypothetically would if you ever played. If a guy wants to take an undisciplined shot or 2 at me, and give my team pp? Cool. Go ahead. And "taking a punch" isn't being a wuss, in fact, it's the opposite.

When Peverly faked the slash at Holtby, and Holtby just stood there... who looked like the wuss?

It's not Sedin's fault the ref didn't call a penalty on an obvious penalty. Now, if you ask me, should some other player on the Canucks have then gone out and rammed Marchand's head into the ice? Sure, but that's a different thing.

Again, if a player wants to be totally undisciplined and take a shot you let him take it.

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10-30-2012, 01:46 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I guess I just played the game differently then you hypothetically would if you ever played. If a guy wants to take an undisciplined shot or 2 at me, and give my team pp? Cool. Go ahead. And "taking a punch" isn't being a wuss, in fact, it's the opposite.

When Peverly faked the slash at Holtby, and Holtby just stood there... who looked like the wuss?

It's not Sedin's fault the ref didn't call a penalty on an obvious penalty. Now, if you ask me, should some other player on the Canucks have then gone out and rammed Marchand's head into the ice? Sure, but that's a different thing.

Again, if a player wants to be totally undisciplined and take a shot you let him take it.
This. I don't fault Sedin at all, he's never going to be a tough guy, he shouldn't need to be and nothing good would happen to him if he tried to be. But the other 4 Canucks on the ice, pretty shameful to let that happen.

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10-30-2012, 01:50 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I guess I just played the game differently then you hypothetically would if you ever played. If a guy wants to take an undisciplined shot or 2 at me, and give my team pp? Cool. Go ahead. And "taking a punch" isn't being a wuss, in fact, it's the opposite.

When Peverly faked the slash at Holtby, and Holtby just stood there... who looked like the wuss?

It's not Sedin's fault the ref didn't call a penalty on an obvious penalty. Now, if you ask me, should some other player on the Canucks have then gone out and rammed Marchand's head into the ice? Sure, but that's a different thing.

Again, if a player wants to be totally undisciplined and take a shot you let him take it.
It was 5-2 with 90 seconds left in the 3rd when this incident happened. Not about a PP at that point, it was about making a statement and showing some backbone. Sedin did neither.

If the score/time left was different, I'd agree. It wasn't though, and Sedin got fully punked.

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