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Number 1 defenceman to Edmonton

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Old
10-30-2012, 06:52 AM
  #26
topshelf15
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As for signing via FA ,100 million for 13 years or so should get you one,just draft one its just easier really

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Old
10-30-2012, 07:09 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
Given the way that Schultz, Marincin and Klefbom have played this year I would suspect that the Oilers are not in the market for a number 1 dman. This is not so much because any of these kids would be that guy but more so because the defense looks like it has the potential to be solid without giving up the price it would take to get any of the guys in this thread.
I get what you're saying, and I think most people agree that Edmonton does have good depth for their blueline longterm, and a couple of guys who look like they could potentially be solid #2 or #3 guys. But getting a true franchise D could go a long way.

Look at recent SC winners. They had:
-Doughty
-Chara
-Keith
-Gonchar (+ young Letang)
-Lidstrom
-Pronger/Niedermayer

Pittsburgh is the only team that has won the Cup recently without a true franchise D, and Gonchar is only slightly below that level. I also think it would be a stretch for any of Schultz, Klefbom, or Marincin to become as good as Gonchar. So unless one of them really surprises and becomes much better than expected, I don't think the Edm blueline looks like it'll be good enough to win a SC with.

Wingers simply aren't as important, and you have three of them (franchise wingers that is). If there was a trade to bring in a franchise D to Edmonton for a guy like Yakupov, I think it would make your team MUCH better. Because the offence core would still be great, with RNH + two franchise wingers, and adding a franchise guy to the blueline can make it one of the top bluelines in the league down the line as opposed to just mediocre.

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Old
10-30-2012, 07:12 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
I'm sure if you package MPS with Gagner, maybe throw in a 3rd round pick, St Louis would be happy to give you Alex Pietrangelo, or Pheonix would send you Yandle (if he meets your standards of #1D).
Didn't Maloney already turn this down? Rhetorical question.

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Old
10-30-2012, 07:27 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
Carlson for Yak or Ebs.
throw in Brouwer.

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Old
10-30-2012, 07:31 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
As for signing via FA ,100 million for 13 years or so should get you one,just draft one its just easier really
Maybe not next year.

If the NHL offer was accepted we could be looking at a cap in the $64M range next year. Here is the current situation that the usual suspects would face with $64M cap.

Code:
Boston 	$11M	8	Rask	
Minn	$13M 	7	Backstrom	
Van	$8M	10	Edler	
Cal	$16M	8	Iginla	
Philly	$12M	8		
SJ	$10M	9		
Chi	$7M	6		
Buf	$14M	9		
Wash	$19M	11		
Tor	$23M	10	Lupul	
La	$15M	10		
Mon	$4M	7		
Det 	$19M	8	Filpula	Howard
Pitt	$12M 	8		
NYR	$12M	7	Stepan	Redden?
The chart lists the present cap space, the number of players needed to be signed and any potentially key FA decisions. I have also removed the cap hit for Savard and Pronger, but did not adjust for bonuses as we don't know how they will be counted. In case of the NYR, they might also be on the hook for Redden.

This last offseason was the perfect storm for big named FA. The big jump in the cap created lots of spending room and in addition teams wanted to make moves before the newCBA was in place. The next couple of years could be very lean for FA's as there will be a very limited amount of money to spend.

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Old
10-30-2012, 07:43 AM
  #31
Fourier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
I get what you're saying, and I think most people agree that Edmonton does have good depth for their blueline longterm, and a couple of guys who look like they could potentially be solid #2 or #3 guys. But getting a true franchise D could go a long way.

Look at recent SC winners. They had:
-Doughty
-Chara
-Keith
-Gonchar (+ young Letang)
-Lidstrom
-Pronger/Niedermayer

Pittsburgh is the only team that has won the Cup recently without a true franchise D, and Gonchar is only slightly below that level. I also think it would be a stretch for any of Schultz, Klefbom, or Marincin to become as good as Gonchar. So unless one of them really surprises and becomes much better than expected, I don't think the Edm blueline looks like it'll be good enough to win a SC with.

Wingers simply aren't as important, and you have three of them (franchise wingers that is). If there was a trade to bring in a franchise D to Edmonton for a guy like Yakupov, I think it would make your team MUCH better. Because the offence core would still be great, with RNH + two franchise wingers, and adding a franchise guy to the blueline can make it one of the top bluelines in the league down the line as opposed to just mediocre.
At some point they may have to make that move. But this is not the time. The cost for a guy like Doughty would be immense. LA has no reason to move him. The same can be said of any franchise defenseman unless there are very special circumstances.

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Old
10-30-2012, 09:50 AM
  #32
Vladys Gumption
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
I'm sure if you package MPS with Gagner, maybe throw in a 3rd round pick, St Louis would be happy to give you Alex Pietrangelo, or Pheonix would send you Yandle (if he meets your standards of #1D).
It's ok guys, he meant to say that package would get you Petro's jock strap

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Old
10-30-2012, 10:28 AM
  #33
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Imagine the following situation: One of these uber awesome D-men people are talking about demand to be traded and they figure they'd consider moving to Edmonton. Yes, crazy idea. But play with that. That's pretty much the only time a team is going to be willing to give up a #1 d-man regardless of whichever city he's moving to.

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Old
10-30-2012, 10:31 AM
  #34
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Markov for your 2013 1st...

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Old
10-30-2012, 10:40 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsRock View Post
I think he meant that the Oiler fans were overvaluing the package. At least I hope thats what he meant.


Yandle
Karlsson
Pietrangelo
Doughty
McDonagh
Myers
Hedman
Bogosian
Subban
Larsson


Any one of those would cost the Oilers at least one of the big 4. Some will cost even more.
no way Larsson should cost one of the big 4, Oilers would be gettng fleeced

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Old
10-30-2012, 10:50 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by johnnyutah View Post
no way Larsson should cost one of the big 4, Oilers would be gettng fleeced
Larsson wont move unless the big4 is involved.. So talking about hypothetical values is pointless.

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Old
10-30-2012, 10:52 AM
  #37
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Jones aside, I think 2013's draft will see a run on forwards similar to 2010. Edmonton should be able to get a very good defenseman in the 10-20 range.

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Old
10-30-2012, 11:07 AM
  #38
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go back and draft Ryan Murray???

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Old
10-30-2012, 11:12 AM
  #39
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Jones aside, I think 2013's draft will see a run on forwards similar to 2010. Edmonton should be able to get a very good defenseman in the 10-20 range.
They will take the BPA but if they had a choice outside of possibly Jones I would bet the guy they would want would be one of the big centers in this years draft.

They need a kid like Lazar more than they need another prospect defenseman.

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Old
10-30-2012, 11:26 AM
  #40
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This wouldnt have been an issue if the Oilers would have used one of those three first rounders in 2007 on Subban.


Oilers will never learn. This team is destined to fail. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to pick first for three years straight, yet here, the Oilers are showing you specificly in this day and age what not to do if you do indeed pick first three years straight.

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10-30-2012, 11:35 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Martini View Post
This wouldnt have been an issue if the Oilers would have used one of those three first rounders in 2007 on Subban.


Oilers will never learn. This team is destined to fail. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to pick first for three years straight, yet here, the Oilers are showing you specificly in this day and age what not to do if you do indeed pick first three years straight.
Care to expalin this post, because as an Oiler fan I am not at all sure what this means.

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Old
10-30-2012, 11:54 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
I get what you're saying, and I think most people agree that Edmonton does have good depth for their blueline longterm, and a couple of guys who look like they could potentially be solid #2 or #3 guys. But getting a true franchise D could go a long way.

Look at recent SC winners. They had:
-Doughty
-Chara
-Keith
-Gonchar (+ young Letang)
-Lidstrom
-Pronger/Niedermayer

Pittsburgh is the only team that has won the Cup recently without a true franchise D, and Gonchar is only slightly below that level. I also think it would be a stretch for any of Schultz, Klefbom, or Marincin to become as good as Gonchar. So unless one of them really surprises and becomes much better than expected, I don't think the Edm blueline looks like it'll be good enough to win a SC with.

Wingers simply aren't as important, and you have three of them (franchise wingers that is). If there was a trade to bring in a franchise D to Edmonton for a guy like Yakupov, I think it would make your team MUCH better. Because the offence core would still be great, with RNH + two franchise wingers, and adding a franchise guy to the blueline can make it one of the top bluelines in the league down the line as opposed to just mediocre.
I think that's exactly what will happen, but not until we have a clearer picture of things. Better to keep all of our wingers than trade Yakupov and become the best of the bunch while Eberle and Hall spend 40 games a season in the IR or not meet expectations. By the time we're ready to compete one of these big name young Dmen might be a pending FA and pricing themselves off their current team, or we could get someone through other means.

Basically, we're still too far away from competing to make a panic move that we could regret down the road.

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Old
10-30-2012, 11:57 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Markov for your 2013 1st...
He is a #1 Dman... on the all-IR team.

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Old
10-30-2012, 11:57 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
Care to expalin this post, because as an Oiler fan I am not at all sure what this means.


That the Oilers screwed up and should've drafted Subban?

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Old
10-30-2012, 12:06 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
Care to expalin this post, because as an Oiler fan I am not at all sure what this means.
Well, lets try and compare them to the Blackhawks, a team that was also accussed of tanking to accumultae draft picks.

The Hawks had three high, top five picks in a short span, one of which was a bust (Barker) and two who were pretty good. Now, the Oilers have had the first pick in the draft three years in a row. Three forwards when the Oilers most pressing need is on defense. Now, did they over rate Yak to the extent of taking depth instead of need? In my opinion, yes, but thats my opinion. Best availible player doesnt work when you could have traded down a couple spots and took a player who would also grow with the core already in place, the same core that is already young and has no problem scoring goals.

Now the Hawks pretty much said when Tallon messed up right after the lock out with failure free agent signings, that they were gonna be bad for a couple years, and traded away every player he had and accumilated a horrendous amount of draft picks and developed players such as Duncan Keith, who were already in the system and created so much depth in terms of prospects that it became a strength. I dont see the Oilers doing this. I see them being happy that they have picked first in the draft for three straight years and thats it. And even then, outside of drafting first overall, they have had some questionable picks outside of stealing Eberle in 2007, when they could have taken Subban when they had three first round picks, and 2009 when there was a bevy of defensive talent who would look good instead of MPS. I, as a casual observer, are not in no way impressed by any draft pick the Oilers have made outside of their three year run as the worst team in the league, but again, thats just me. I also think a couple of those picks, Hall especially, are questionable because Hall is injury prone and Seguin might be a better player in the long run.

Long story short, you draft balance over anything in the NHL in this day of a salary cap if you actually want to put out a competitive team. The Oilers have what looks like alot of mistakes and I wonder if they need a Dale Tallon type to do in there and right the ship with a tweak or two when the obvious is actually seen by somebody who doesnt have his heart on his Oilers shirt sleeve. But in my opinion, this team is closer to picking first for a fourth straight year then making the playoffs, and the only person to blame for that is the GM.

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Old
10-30-2012, 12:16 PM
  #46
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They will take the BPA but if they had a choice outside of possibly Jones I would bet the guy they would want would be one of the big centers in this years draft.

They need a kid like Lazar more than they need another prospect defenseman.
You're crazy if you think that.The Oilers' defence is the weakest position currently.Steve Tambellini has to draft defence this year .

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Old
10-30-2012, 12:20 PM
  #47
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You're crazy if you think that.The Oilers' defence is the weakest position currently.Steve Tambellini has to draft defence this year .

He better. Her should have passed on Yakupov but thats another story

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Old
10-30-2012, 12:21 PM
  #48
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That the Oilers screwed up and should've drafted Subban?
hindsight 20/20...

The oil took the bpa. Nothing wrong with that.

All teams passed on PK atleast once... GJ habs on a great pick at 2nd round.

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Old
10-30-2012, 12:22 PM
  #49
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Pietrangelo is worth MPS, Gagner, and the next 2 edm first round picks
MOAR

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Old
10-30-2012, 12:25 PM
  #50
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The Oilers biggest weakness is defense BECAUSE of drafting the kids they have in the last few years, if you go back and reverse Hall for Larsson or Murray the landscape changes but not necessarily for the better.

This thread will be predictable, to get a top d-man you need to trade one of the big 4. People will argue that's overpayment, can get one for a lesser package, etc., and by the end of it it will turn into a "you need to learn how to draft because you keep passing on D".

For me personally, I have no idea what type of d-man we could get for a package like Gagner, Paajarvi, and a 2nd, but I am fairly certain they won't be trading any of Ebs, Hall, RNH, Yak, or Schultz, so I guess they will likely take the best defenseman they can get and try to improve.

The good thing is this defense can be improved with any legit #2-3 guy because we simply have not been very good over the last few years.

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