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Best Defensive Forward Ever

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Old
12-17-2009, 02:52 PM
  #51
Leafs Forever
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Quote:
Its easy. The 3 best defensive players ever played for the Habs.

Bob Gainey
Guy Carbonneau
Henri Richard

/thread
Frankly, guys like Ramsay, Clarke, Provost, and Nighbor certainly protest this. Those 3 are certainly not certain as the top-3 all-time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
Well some guy named jack walker won his team the stanley cup by shutting down howie morenz in his prime. I think he has his case as the best ever.
And Walker too, of course. Good to see another Walker appreciator.

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Old
12-18-2009, 04:02 PM
  #52
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by Dark Shadows View Post
Westfall was better defensively
Good point. Westfall was one of the best defensive wingers of his time.

Clarke and Keon were the 2 best I saw.

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Old
12-18-2009, 05:50 PM
  #53
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Westfall, Keon and Provost, not necessarily in that order, were the three that I remember from the time that hockey really meant something to me.

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Old
12-19-2009, 09:22 AM
  #54
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Defensive Bruins:

Oh Yes, Ed Westfall was a Defensive force over many seasons, reliable, constant, effective....Derek was a "Disturber", a grating, disruptive Presence...His absence during the 72 Soviet series and the 74 Bruins/Flyers Final was keenly felt....

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Old
02-11-2010, 02:19 PM
  #55
begbeee
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I pick Sergei Fedorov.

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Old
02-14-2010, 05:08 PM
  #56
Chili
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Gainey was good enough defensively that Bowman would throw him back on defence if need be. Another player I always respected that I didn't see mentioned was Don Marcotte.

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Old
02-14-2010, 05:29 PM
  #57
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Somebody has to mention a King. How about no. 19?

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Old
02-15-2010, 06:36 AM
  #58
tony d
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Bob Gainey or Guy Carbonneau

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Old
02-15-2010, 09:04 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve141 View Post
During the 74-75 season Bobby Clarke played 80 games and was on ice for 19 even strength goals against. By comparison, last year's Selke winner Pavel Datsyuk was on ice for 50 even strength goals against.
Last season, I would of taken a 60 year old Bernie Parent over Osgood and Conklin any day of the week.

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Old
02-15-2010, 02:44 PM
  #60
JABEE
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Bobby Clarke

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Old
02-19-2010, 12:20 PM
  #61
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Jere Lehtinen

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Old
10-30-2012, 01:20 PM
  #62
mydogsparty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
IMO Jari Kurri, Bobby Clarke, Fedorov and Trottier were the only players to be elite offensively and defensively. Guys like sakic, yzerman, modano and forsberg played good defense but they dont compare.
Along with Clarke, Trottier, Fedorov & Kurri, what about Stan Mikita? His offense seems to fall in line with the four players mentioned but how about his defense? Does the fact that he changed his game from being a dirty player to a Lady Bing winner change how effective he was at the defensive end of the rink?

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Old
10-30-2012, 01:23 PM
  #63
King Forsberg
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Bobby Clarke gets my vote. He was matched against top lines and had to carry the offense as well so he wasn't in a position to just sit back and be in position for defense.

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Old
10-30-2012, 01:33 PM
  #64
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydogsparty View Post
Along with Clarke, Trottier, Fedorov & Kurri, what about Stan Mikita? His offense seems to fall in line with the four players mentioned but how about his defense? Does the fact that he changed his game from being a dirty player to a Lady Bing winner change how effective he was at the defensive end of the rink?
Where is the evidence that Mikita was elite defensively coming from anyway? Ultimate Hockey?

He put up his numbers playing for a run-and-gun team and couldn't contain Beliveau in the playoffs.

I'm sure he was strong defensively, but he I don't think he belongs in the conversation for best ever.

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Old
10-30-2012, 01:35 PM
  #65
livewell68
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If we were to pick the top 10, mine would be

1. Gainey
2. Carbonneau
3. Mikita
4. Clarke
5. Trottier
6. Fedorov
7. Lehtinen
8. Datsyuk
9. Modano
10. Yzerman

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Old
10-30-2012, 01:35 PM
  #66
TheDevilMadeMe
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As I say in other threads about this, my choices would be

Frank Nighbor
Bob Gainey
Bobby Clarke
Guy Carbonneau

in any order

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Old
10-30-2012, 01:42 PM
  #67
kmad
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Bobby Clarke. Gainey may have been more methodical and flawless without the puck, but Clarke's ability to create elite level offense and his vicious tendencies also had dampening effects on opposing forwards that Gainey couldn't match.

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Old
10-30-2012, 01:46 PM
  #68
struckbyaparkedcar
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Similarly to the Lehtinen question, how does Peca stack up? I knew he was elite,obviously, but I was surprised at how readily certain people used him to offset Sakic/Forsberg in various Roy/Hasek debates. Was he really *that* valuable?

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Old
10-30-2012, 01:48 PM
  #69
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Similarly to the Lehtinen question, how does Peca stack up? I knew he was elite,obviously, but I was surprised at how readily certain people used him to offset Sakic/Forsberg in various Roy/Hasek debates. Was he really *that* valuable?
I would have Peca right there with Lehtinen in terms of defense. Lehtinen won more Selkes because he was a better goal scorer (it's not supposed to matter, but we all know it does). I think Peca was the best combo of leadership and shutdown play since Carbonneau.

I'd probably have both Peca and Lehtinen in a second tier with about 10 or so other names, just under the 4 names I gave above.

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Old
10-30-2012, 01:56 PM
  #70
Kloparren
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Would Craig MacTavish make a list like this? I know he wasn't much of a scorer but heard he was good defensively.

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Old
10-30-2012, 02:30 PM
  #71
BM67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Where is the evidence that Mikita was elite defensively coming from anyway? Ultimate Hockey?

He put up his numbers playing for a run-and-gun team and couldn't contain Beliveau in the playoffs.

I'm sure he was strong defensively, but he I don't think he belongs in the conversation for best ever.
His defense was more of the keep them in there own end type, rather than the stop them in our end type. He is an all-time great face-off guy as well.

From Stan Mikita's book I Play To Win:

Quote:
The Scooter Line with Mohnsie was just as successful as it had been with Ab. We started playing together part way through the 1964-65 season and the next four seasons each of us scored twenty or more goals every year. You can go up and down the league and you won't find a line that did that four years in a row. We were able to do it because we worked together perfectly and because we forced the play. We weren't a checking line just trying to keep the opposition from scoring, but a forcing line. We made the plays and let the opposition worry about checking us; we kept them busy so they couldn't score.

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Old
10-30-2012, 02:37 PM
  #72
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BM67 View Post
His defense was more of the keep them in there own end type, rather than the stop them in our end type. He is an all-time great face-off guy as well.

From Stan Mikita's book I Play To Win:
Sounds like Peter Forsberg (plus elite faceoffs), not one of the top 10 defensive forwards of all time.

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Old
10-30-2012, 02:42 PM
  #73
thom
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Gainey in hall of fame and not Guy what a joke.In the late 70's tikanov the coach of russian team made a glowing remark about gainey and all media picked it up.Gainey was a good leader and played while hurt but is the most overated player.Look at stats very closely minutes played ect.

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Old
10-30-2012, 03:31 PM
  #74
mydogsparty
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What about Jean Ratelle. He wasn't a physical presence but he backchecked.

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Old
10-30-2012, 03:49 PM
  #75
thom
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No problem with jean or marcotte,clarke,charboneau,or the ramsey hunter was okay too.

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