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Number 1 defenceman to Edmonton

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Old
10-30-2012, 12:32 PM
  #51
SDig14
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Also, it's simply terrible management to pass on the best player in a draft for need.

What if Yakupov goes on to dominate the league and ends up better than both Hall and Eberle?

Seems more logical to take the best player, let him develop for a couple years, and then make a move if you need a defenseman.

If he ends up the best Oiler in a few years you can trade someone else instead, you don't have that option if you just pass outright.

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10-30-2012, 12:45 PM
  #52
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I think that's exactly what will happen, but not until we have a clearer picture of things. Better to keep all of our wingers than trade Yakupov and become the best of the bunch while Eberle and Hall spend 40 games a season in the IR or not meet expectations. By the time we're ready to compete one of these big name young Dmen might be a pending FA and pricing themselves off their current team, or we could get someone through other means.

Basically, we're still too far away from competing to make a panic move that we could regret down the road.
I think that's a much more reasonable post than what I've seen from a lot of Oiler fans.

Usually it's

- We willl NEVER trade any of the big 4 for ANYTHING
and
- We don't need defence anyways, Schultz+Klefbom+Marincin = best blueline ever

/hyperbole, but you get what I mean.

I agree it could make sense to wait 1-2 years to get a better sense of exactly which wingers you want to keep, and also so you can try and target pending RFA Dman in the future (such as Weber from this year).

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Old
10-30-2012, 12:54 PM
  #53
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Well, lets try and compare them to the Blackhawks, a team that was also accussed of tanking to accumultae draft picks.

The Hawks had three high, top five picks in a short span, one of which was a bust (Barker) and two who were pretty good. Now, the Oilers have had the first pick in the draft three years in a row. Three forwards when the Oilers most pressing need is on defense. Now, did they over rate Yak to the extent of taking depth instead of need? In my opinion, yes, but thats my opinion. Best availible player doesnt work when you could have traded down a couple spots and took a player who would also grow with the core already in place, the same core that is already young and has no problem scoring goals.

Now the Hawks pretty much said when Tallon messed up right after the lock out with failure free agent signings, that they were gonna be bad for a couple years, and traded away every player he had and accumilated a horrendous amount of draft picks and developed players such as Duncan Keith, who were already in the system and created so much depth in terms of prospects that it became a strength. I dont see the Oilers doing this. I see them being happy that they have picked first in the draft for three straight years and thats it. And even then, outside of drafting first overall, they have had some questionable picks outside of stealing Eberle in 2007, when they could have taken Subban when they had three first round picks, and 2009 when there was a bevy of defensive talent who would look good instead of MPS. I, as a casual observer, are not in no way impressed by any draft pick the Oilers have made outside of their three year run as the worst team in the league, but again, thats just me. I also think a couple of those picks, Hall especially, are questionable because Hall is injury prone and Seguin might be a better player in the long run.

Long story short, you draft balance over anything in the NHL in this day of a salary cap if you actually want to put out a competitive team. The Oilers have what looks like alot of mistakes and I wonder if they need a Dale Tallon type to do in there and right the ship with a tweak or two when the obvious is actually seen by somebody who doesnt have his heart on his Oilers shirt sleeve. But in my opinion, this team is closer to picking first for a fourth straight year then making the playoffs, and the only person to blame for that is the GM.
Eberle was taken in 2008, the first year with our current scouting staff. 2007 was a bad draft (Plante and Nash were considered reaches at the time), but to fault us for passing on Subban is moronic. Hindsight is 20/20 and there were reasons he lasted into the 2nd round.

BPA is always the way to go (unless you consider the difference negligable). It's easier to turn an elite winger into an elite Dman via trade than to make a #2 guy into one because you drafted a lesser player Also, let's not compare a completed rebuild into one currently taking place. Of course the cup winning hawks team will look better than the rebuilding oilers.

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10-30-2012, 01:02 PM
  #54
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This wouldnt have been an issue if the Oilers would have used one of those three first rounders in 2007 on Subban.


Oilers will never learn. This team is destined to fail. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to pick first for three years straight, yet here, the Oilers are showing you specificly in this day and age what not to do if you do indeed pick first three years straight.
You must be one hell of a scout, because you would have gone against conventional wisdom when drafting #1, and not picked the best player on the board. Can you think of any other time where the #1 pick wasn't the best player on the board. WHAT A GENIUS YOU ARE!

-Although close, Hall was the consensus #1.
-RNH was clearly the most obvious #1 pick.
-Yak was again clearly the consensus #1 propect amongst scouts. I believe 29 of 30 scouts had him #1. The Leaf scout was the only one that didn't have him at #1...they had Reilly pegged as the best prospects.

I am completely happy with the way things have turned out for Edmonton, and if I didn't know better, I would think that most people on HF are envious, and somewhat jealous of our top end talent.

We don't need to overpay for a #1D. All we need now is some time for this team to grow up. We potentially have 3-4 top end D's in the system (Schultz, Klef, Marin, Gernat, Petry...etc). Don't need to overpay for someone like Boghosian, Yandle, Carlsson.

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10-30-2012, 01:03 PM
  #55
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The problem with the Oilers landing a 1D is the only pieces with enough value is the big 4. All of them have huge value but obviously wont be traded anytime soon. After then a huge drop off in valur happens, If I was a Gm I wouldnt have any other interests on that team except Schultz but a D for a D wouldnt make sense and he just chose to play there.

In short the only Oilers with high value are RNH, Hall, Eberle, Yakupov and Schultz. None which should or will be moved anytime soon.

I wouldnt care if the Oilers tanked again as long as they take D. The Leafs will probably be in the basement too and if the Oil take another forward they might become my most hated team.

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10-30-2012, 01:06 PM
  #56
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I'd rather just let our guys develop. We don't have a number one D man, but we have guys like Schultz and Klefbom to add to Petry, Smid and other Schultz, which in a honesty will be an above average D core in a few years.

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10-30-2012, 01:07 PM
  #57
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He is a #1 Dman... on the all-IR team.
They can probably get a good scouting report on Markov from Hemsky then, they probably rehab together all year long

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10-30-2012, 01:08 PM
  #58
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The problem with the Oilers landing a 1D is the only pieces with enough value is the big 4. All of them have huge value but obviously wont be traded anytime soon. After then a huge drop off in valur happens, If I was a Gm I wouldnt have any other interests on that team except Schultz but a D for a D wouldnt make sense and he just chose to play there.

In short the only Oilers with high value are RNH, Hall, Eberle, Yakupov and Schultz. None which should or will be moved anytime soon.

I wouldnt care if the Oilers tanked again as long as they take D. The Leafs will probably be in the basement too and if the Oil take another forward they might become my most hated team.
They will, once again, take the best player available.

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10-30-2012, 01:12 PM
  #59
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They will, once again, take the best player available.
The Leafs got a steal with Reilly. I think it's a toss up between him and Reinhart for best D man in the draft. If the Oilers didn't win the lottery I would have selected one of those two, definitely not Murray though. I'm really happy we got Yakupov because he is quite obviously the best player in the draft. I think top D men can be found with lower picks, which is what I'm hoping for in our D prospects. I hope out of all the standouts we have from the last few years one of them will be a home run.

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10-30-2012, 01:12 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
The problem with the Oilers landing a 1D is the only pieces with enough value is the big 4. All of them have huge value but obviously wont be traded anytime soon. After then a huge drop off in valur happens, If I was a Gm I wouldnt have any other interests on that team except Schultz but a D for a D wouldnt make sense and he just chose to play there.

In short the only Oilers with high value are RNH, Hall, Eberle, Yakupov and Schultz. None which should or will be moved anytime soon.

I wouldnt care if the Oilers tanked again as long as they take D. The Leafs will probably be in the basement too and if the Oil take another forward they might become my most hated team.
Well, I don't think any Oilers fan would dislike drafting Seth Jones, but I just don't see them being bad enough again this year to draft that high.

The additions of Yakupov and Schultz will help, a healthy Hall, and less games for Khabibulin should all improve this team, along with the fact that all of our best players will have had another year under their belt in the NHL.

My guess is they pick in the 6-12 range, but not sure that will be an area where the BPA is a defenseman, it may be another forward.

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10-30-2012, 01:13 PM
  #61
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I know Oil fans wouldn't be huge on him, but I have had the idea that Paul Martin is a perfect fit in EDM. He struggles on a team that has expectations to win the Cup, but is a guy who can help out a young core very well. He's a great character guy, too. I think he'd be a PERFECT fit in EDM and the cost wouldn't even be that great.

You can make fun of the guy all you want, but he's a leader off/on the ice. He helps young dmen and young players mature.

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10-30-2012, 01:13 PM
  #62
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If there isn't a season we'll probably get a pick in the mid to late first, so unfortunately Seth Jones isn't even a consideration for me.

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10-30-2012, 01:17 PM
  #63
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I know Oil fans wouldn't be huge on him, but I have had the idea that Paul Martin is a perfect fit in EDM. He struggles on a team that has expectations to win the Cup, but is a guy who can help out a young core very well. He's a great character guy, too. I think he'd be a PERFECT fit in EDM and the cost wouldn't even be that great.

You can make fun of the guy all you want, but he's a leader off/on the ice. He helps young dmen and young players mature.
Didn't he say something to the effect that he wouldn't sign with the NYI because they had a terrible arena? IIRC, Snow made a comment after that as well.

On a more serious note, this is the type of trade I expect them to make. It may not be Martin in the end, but a veteran who has played at an above average level in the past that adds skill, experience, and depth.

They will likely try to find a cheaper option similar to Martin, or maybe Martin himself, it's a possibility.

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10-30-2012, 01:26 PM
  #64
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The Leafs got a steal with Reilly. I think it's a toss up between him and Reinhart for best D man in the draft. If the Oilers didn't win the lottery I would have selected one of those two, definitely not Murray though. I'm really happy we got Yakupov because he is quite obviously the best player in the draft. I think top D men can be found with lower picks, which is what I'm hoping for in our D prospects. I hope out of all the standouts we have from the last few years one of them will be a home run.
I agree, Reilly is a great talent. However, there are so many factors in developing a prospect. The talent is so similar that it often comes down to who has the mental fortitude, and the confidence. A team has a great deal to do with the development of the talent.

For example, Edmonton used to be very bad at developing their talent. Likewise with Toronto. I see someone like L. Schenn & Kadri as most recent examples where the organization compleletly stripped these players of their confidence, resulting in these guys having subpar seasons. Schenn just couldn't recover...he had lost his confidence. There is a danger of them doing the same to Gardiner and Reilly. I hope they don't, but there's just too much pressure from the Toronto fans and media to have these guys step in immediately and contribute. People forget that some of these players are still teenagers.

I also saw similarities in the way Edmonton flubbed up with MPS. However, I do think Edmonton is doing a better job with other prospects such as Klef, Marin, Petry, Harti and Lander. They are taking their time with them.

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10-30-2012, 01:34 PM
  #65
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Well, I don't think any Oilers fan would dislike drafting Seth Jones, but I just don't see them being bad enough again this year to draft that high.

The additions of Yakupov and Schultz will help, a healthy Hall, and less games for Khabibulin should all improve this team, along with the fact that all of our best players will have had another year under their belt in the NHL.

My guess is they pick in the 6-12 range, but not sure that will be an area where the BPA is a defenseman, it may be another forward.
Pulock may be available around that area, he would be a good fit with the Oil.

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10-30-2012, 01:36 PM
  #66
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Well, lets try and compare them to the Blackhawks, a team that was also accussed of tanking to accumultae draft picks.

The Hawks had three high, top five picks in a short span, one of which was a bust (Barker) and two who were pretty good. Now, the Oilers have had the first pick in the draft three years in a row. Three forwards when the Oilers most pressing need is on defense. Now, did they over rate Yak to the extent of taking depth instead of need? In my opinion, yes, but thats my opinion. Best availible player doesnt work when you could have traded down a couple spots and took a player who would also grow with the core already in place, the same core that is already young and has no problem scoring goals.

Now the Hawks pretty much said when Tallon messed up right after the lock out with failure free agent signings, that they were gonna be bad for a couple years, and traded away every player he had and accumilated a horrendous amount of draft picks and developed players such as Duncan Keith, who were already in the system and created so much depth in terms of prospects that it became a strength. I dont see the Oilers doing this. I see them being happy that they have picked first in the draft for three straight years and thats it. And even then, outside of drafting first overall, they have had some questionable picks outside of stealing Eberle in 2007, when they could have taken Subban when they had three first round picks, and 2009 when there was a bevy of defensive talent who would look good instead of MPS. I, as a casual observer, are not in no way impressed by any draft pick the Oilers have made outside of their three year run as the worst team in the league, but again, thats just me. I also think a couple of those picks, Hall especially, are questionable because Hall is injury prone and Seguin might be a better player in the long run.

Long story short, you draft balance over anything in the NHL in this day of a salary cap if you actually want to put out a competitive team. The Oilers have what looks like alot of mistakes and I wonder if they need a Dale Tallon type to do in there and right the ship with a tweak or two when the obvious is actually seen by somebody who doesnt have his heart on his Oilers shirt sleeve. But in my opinion, this team is closer to picking first for a fourth straight year then making the playoffs, and the only person to blame for that is the GM.
Your whole post is a fail before you even get to the meat of it. You honestly dont think oiler fans on HF at all over the 2011-2012 season looked at trading down? When the offers were we dont care one of Yak or Murray is left you arent getting lots of value.

Yep just finished the rest of the post and it doesnt get any better

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10-30-2012, 01:38 PM
  #67
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Also, it's simply terrible management to pass on the best player in a draft for need.

What if Yakupov goes on to dominate the league and ends up better than both Hall and Eberle?

Seems more logical to take the best player, let him develop for a couple years, and then make a move if you need a defenseman.

If he ends up the best Oiler in a few years you can trade someone else instead, you don't have that option if you just pass outright.
Yea so we trade Yak now for a lesser dman or need to add to him. Versus he scores 30 goals in the NHL and now his value is way higher.

I dont get how posters can argue with a straight face about trading the big 4 before they have even all played together. Like its been 3 years of crap, no lets get impatient now and lose a trade. Thanks Ill take waiting out the lockout and then seeing what the season brings

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10-30-2012, 02:27 PM
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Also, it's simply terrible management to pass on the best player in a draft for need.
Not when the Oilers have had the pick of the litter for two years before. BPA is a chosen method for teams picking in the bottom half of the draft and works considering many of the best players have already been taken. There is no excuse for picking the BPA when there is an obvious weakness that needs to be addressed.
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What if Yakupov goes on to dominate the league and ends up better than both Hall and Eberle?
Then you trade one of those other players to fill the void on defense. Also, nobody knows what the future will hold or if Yak is a bust, and considering some of the questionable picks made, I would bank on what I had and build around that instead of hoping on yet another forward who will help the team score more goals when scoring goals isnt really an issue, stopping them is.
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Seems more logical to take the best player, let him develop for a couple years, and then make a move if you need a defenseman.
The Oilers dont have a couple years, they need to win now, as sad as that is. Three years picking first overall and they are closer to picking first again then actually making the playoffs isnt something to be proud of and I find it shocking that the GM there still has a job. Its disgraceful that a team that has a lineage of being reknown as one of the great franchises in the entire NHL has stooped to such levels of bad and nobody sees a rush to actually be respectful.
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If he ends up the best Oiler in a few years you can trade someone else instead, you don't have that option if you just pass outright.
How is it passing when you trade out of that pick and get more assets to help the team in general?

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10-30-2012, 02:32 PM
  #69
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You honestly dont think oiler fans on HF at all over the 2011-2012 season looked at trading down?
It honestly doesnt matter what Oiler fans on HF think in the big picture. What matters is actually making the Oilers better. I place all of the blame on a GM who has no clue on how to use the draft, and this is with three number one overall picks at his disposal, to rebuild a team.

This situation reminds me of the Detroit Lions taking three wide recievers three years in a row when there were more important positions that could have used an upgrade. Didnt work then and its questionable if this situation would work now and their excuse was they took the BPA.

Time will tell.

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10-30-2012, 02:48 PM
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You must be one hell of a scout, because you would have gone against conventional wisdom when drafting #1, and not picked the best player on the board. Can you think of any other time where the #1 pick wasn't the best player on the board. WHAT A GENIUS YOU ARE!
Traded down and got more assets and still a decent pick?
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-Although close, Hall was the consensus #1.
Debateable. Seguin has already passed him, imo, and plays a premium forward position. If he was taken instead, the Oilers could have taken Landeskog and the dynamic of the Oilers is changed for the better, imo, of course.
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-RNH was clearly the most obvious #1 pick.
Possibly, but I will wager Landeskog is a better pro.
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-Yak was again clearly the consensus #1 propect amongst scouts. I believe 29 of 30 scouts had him #1. The Leaf scout was the only one that didn't have him at #1...they had Reilly pegged as the best prospects.
Which means they could have returned a huge bevy of talent for him.
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I am completely happy with the way things have turned out for Edmonton, and if I didn't know better, I would think that most people on HF are envious, and somewhat jealous of our top end talent.
I dont think thats the case. I think many just want the Oilers to return to what they used to be instead of being the leagues laughing stock. How could anybody say they are envious or jealous of a team that has picked first overall three straight times? And even then, the fabled top end talent on the Oilers needs to develop further to actually be something to be jealous of?

Jealous of the potential? Nah. Every team in the league has players with potential. The Oilers players need to play up to that potential and so far they havent done anything but prove they can beat the tar out of the Blackhawks during the regular season when the Hawks are pretty much sleep walking thru the 60 minutes.
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We don't need to overpay for a #1D. All we need now is some time for this team to grow up. We potentially have 3-4 top end D's in the system (Schultz, Klef, Marin, Gernat, Petry...etc). Don't need to overpay for someone like Boghosian, Yandle, Carlsson.
The Oilers need a number one defenseman. And sadly if they want to be competitive, need to over pay to get one and when they do, I will bet Oiler fans will not like the end result of what they give up for one from what is actually out there. Karlsson surely isnt, and I guestion if Bogo is either.

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10-30-2012, 02:54 PM
  #71
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Martini, don't you think you're being a bit unfair? Edmonton is only just starting to turn things around. Let's see how they look a season or two from now(and beyond) before we start claiming they made the wrong choices.

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10-30-2012, 03:08 PM
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Martini, don't you think you're being a bit unfair? Edmonton is only just starting to turn things around. Let's see how they look a season or two from now(and beyond) before we start claiming they made the wrong choices.
Honestly? Yes and no. I dont see a turn around and only see a franchise stuck with a half empty glass and a front office which seems content that the glass is half full. I think the choices they made are questionable, but thats just my opinion.

And while I do see talent, to get the actual players needed to compete will take some of that talent away, which puts them back at square one. If they stay committed to a rebuild by drafting, sooner or later they will need to trade some of that away to get some vetrans in there who can teach those kids the one thing they have no clue how to do, and thats win at the NHL level.

I see a cluster****, thats all right now.

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10-30-2012, 03:12 PM
  #73
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Oilers are going to develop Schultz and Klefbom into their eventual top pairing. If they can get a veteran d-man to fill that role temporarily for a few years without breaking the bank they may look into that, but I don't see them being too desperate.

They have a potentially great core and they know it. They're not going to blow it up without letting the kids gel together first.

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10-30-2012, 03:17 PM
  #74
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Honestly? Yes and no. I dont see a turn around and only see a franchise stuck with a half empty glass and a front office which seems content that the glass is half full. I think the choices they made are questionable, but thats just my opinion.

And while I do see talent, to get the actual players needed to compete will take some of that talent away, which puts them back at square one. If they stay committed to a rebuild by drafting, sooner or later they will need to trade some of that away to get some vetrans in there who can teach those kids the one thing they have no clue how to do, and thats win at the NHL level.

I see a cluster****, thats all right now.
Fair enough. I just think it's premature to start grading them. There is no doubt the way they've gone about rebuilding is, well, going to raise a few eyebrows... and I agree with you that having talented kids isn't going to be enough. You can't just toss high draft picks into the NHL and expect it to turn a team around. Experience and maturity go a long way in the NHL. I just think we should wait and see what Edmonton does. They should at least see how the kids do, and then make adjustments accordingly.

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10-30-2012, 03:29 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Martini View Post
Traded down and got more assets and still a decent pick?

Debateable. Seguin has already passed him, imo, and plays a premium forward position. If he was taken instead, the Oilers could have taken Landeskog and the dynamic of the Oilers is changed for the better, imo, of course.

Possibly, but I will wager Landeskog is a better pro.

Which means they could have returned a huge bevy of talent for him.

I dont think thats the case. I think many just want the Oilers to return to what they used to be instead of being the leagues laughing stock. How could anybody say they are envious or jealous of a team that has picked first overall three straight times? And even then, the fabled top end talent on the Oilers needs to develop further to actually be something to be jealous of?

Jealous of the potential? Nah. Every team in the league has players with potential. The Oilers players need to play up to that potential and so far they havent done anything but prove they can beat the tar out of the Blackhawks during the regular season when the Hawks are pretty much sleep walking thru the 60 minutes.

The Oilers need a number one defenseman. And sadly if they want to be competitive, need to over pay to get one and when they do, I will bet Oiler fans will not like the end result of what they give up for one from what is actually out there. Karlsson surely isnt, and I guestion if Bogo is either.
Essentially, what you are telling me is that Seguin is the better player. Landeskogg is the better pro, and we made the wrong choice in picking Yak.

Listen dude, you've got to STOP TROLLING!!!! Your intentions are so obvious. Do you mind telling me why so much hatred towards one team? If you would have given the Oilers credit for making the right decision just 1 of the 3 times, I may have believed that you were sincere in your opinion. However, it is abundantly clear that your intention is to downplay the talent that the Oilers have amassed. Give them a couple of years, and they will be one of the top 4 teams in the league.

Are you sure you have no hidden agenda...I'm sure you want nothing but to see the Oilers succeed.

Envy, Envy, ENVY!!!

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