So you're saying our great Marlie team which i keep hearing is loaded with prospects can't even produce 1 McClement type player .
Also how will these kids ever be able to establish themselves if they're never given a chance ?
What modicum of success have we had since Burke was hired ?
I keep hearing the Panthers are the deepest team in the league for prospects. They didn't have a single guy who could do what Madden, Bradley, Strachan, Cullen or Kennedy were signed to do? What gives? Florida must have a brutal prospect pool.....
More debunking from Burke's "delusional" detractors is needed, please.
I find it funny that once the whole "Marlies" argument was debunked... the Burke supporters just changed the argument all over again (surprise surprise) and said... "uh... yeah... well.. THEY WERE YOUNGER IN THE PLAYOFFS!!!!"
It really is getting out of hand.
First off, Tlusty was 19 that year.
Harrison was 24.
Newbury 25.
And everything else was wrong.
Everything.
So not only did you just flat out change the entire argument... you also altered facts and evidence.
I think you may have been looking at the 2009-2010 Marlies lineup.
More spinning to try to show Burke in a better light . Why does it matter where a player was drafted years ealier ? Weber was drafted in the 2nd round , does this mean DP is the better player because he was drafted in the 1st round ?
You are missing the point.
I'd rather have Burke targetting former 1st round picks than 4th or 5th rounders.
I keep hearing the Panthers are the deepest team in the league for prospects. They didn't have a single guy who could do what Madden, Bradley, Strachan, Cullen or Kennedy were signed to do? What gives? Florida must have a brutal prospect pool.....
they don't, they have a top 3 prospect in Huberdeau, arguably the best Goalie prospect in Markstrom and most of there other top picks like Kulikov, Gudbranson have graduated to the team already
HF is just fans..... I dont take their results seriously. And you are arguing 2 different things. Players who have graduated as prospects are now playing in the AHL..... so its not the same at all...
I bet the marlies would be more likely to beat edmontons farm without RNH hall and eberle...
I'm saying our current nhl team sucks, with all our stars in their prime (Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, Garbovski, etc). We finished 5th last.
Our farm team full of our prospects isn't even any better than the "bare cupboards" team Burke took over.
You do realize that 3 of the players that burke acquired literally became All Stars AFTER he acquired them right? And another one became an all rookie team player... After he acquired him.....
After four years of bottom 10 finishes?
He's added a few good players?
I SHOULD CERTAINLY ****ING HOPE SO!!!!!
Any gm in all of world history would have been able to add a few good players after four years of bottom 10 finishes.
Here's what I'm concerned about...
It's been four years...
7th last then, 5th last now.
10th in g/f then, 10th now.
30th in g/a then, 29th now.
Higher rated prospects rankings then than now.
Better Marlies team then than now.
I find it very funny that some fans are pimping the Marlies when Burke thinks so lowly of them that he had to go outside our organization to sign a nothing 3rd/4th ( McClement ) liner to try to fill a depth c/pk role .
You'd think with all this talent on the farm a least one player would be able to fill this role .
Means nothing. Burke will not put a young prospect in the role McClement will have.
And Mcclement is far from a "Nothing" 4th liner.
You don't send your best prospects to play 4th line checking-role minutes. Silly argument.
Last edited by RogerRoeper*: 10-30-2012 at 08:18 PM.
dont you get tired of repeating the same dribble over and over? 75% of the people on this board do not agree with your arguments
The 2007 thread about JFJ had just as much support for him.
You now, the same JFJ that everyone now blames for all of Burkes problems.
So if you think leaf fans support of Burke means he's a good GM, then to remain consistent, you HAVE TO also agree that JFJ was a fantastic GM.
Or you could remain inconsistent and say "When the majority of leaf fans agree with MY opinion, they're right. I ignore them otherwise".
they don't, they have a top 3 prospect in Huberdeau, arguably the best Goalie prospect in Markstrom and most of there other top picks like Kulikov, Gudbranson have graduated to the team already
Means nothing. Burke will not put a young prospect in the role McClement will have.
And Mcclement is far from a "Nothing" 4th liner.
Why , the team isn't competing for anything this year and many of our prospects don't project to be anything more than 3rd/4th liners anyway .
McClement is 29 and cracked 30 points once ( 06/07 ) and has a career high of 12 goals ( 08/09 ) so why does not make him anything more than a nothing 3rd/4th liner ?
Or did he suddenly become a much better player the second he became a Leaf ?
Why , the team isn't competing for anything this year and many of our prospects don't project to be anything more than 3rd/4th liners anyway .
McClement is 29 and cracked 30 points once ( 06/07 ) and has a career high of 12 goals ( 08/09 ) so why does not make him anything more than a nothing 3rd/4th liner ?
Or did he suddenly become a much better player the second he became a Leaf ?
I sure hope this team is competing for a playoff spot this year.
With Florida, I'll have to see it to believe it. They were picked as a future cup winnner a few years ago with Luongo, Weiss, Honton etc and they never saw the playofs once.
And they made the playoffs last year thanks to spending a lot of money on veterans who had career years and being in the weakest division in hockey.
Why , the team isn't competing for anything this year and many of our prospects don't project to be anything more than 3rd/4th liners anyway .
McClement is 29 and cracked 30 points once ( 06/07 ) and has a career high of 12 goals ( 08/09 ) so why does not make him anything more than a nothing 3rd/4th liner ?
Or did he suddenly become a much better player the second he became a Leaf ?
Why are you spouting stats for a defensive role player? And why would you want to see a good prospect get so little ice-time?
You can't judge defensive forwards on offensive stats.
Why are you spouting stats for a defensive role player? And why would you want to see a good prospect get so little ice-time?
You can't judge defensive forwards on offensive stats.
I'm spouting off stats so you can understand he's a nothing 3rd/4th liner who's spot should have been given to one our prospects . 3rd liners get mid teens on an avg so why do you consider that so little ice time or do you think unless we give a player 20 mins a game he should never be up with the big club ?
Even defensive forwards have to produce to a certain degree if they're going to play 3rd line minutes .
First off, Tlusty was 19 that year.
Harrison was 24.
Newbury 25.
And everything else was wrong.
Everything.
Tlusty - born: 1988-03-16. He is currently 24 years old. He would have been 20 years old when during the '07-'08 playoffs. Definately my mistake on this, correcting it in original post.
Harrison - born: 1982-05-07. He is currently 30 years old, and would have turned 26 4 years ago during the Marlies playoff drive.
Newbury - born: 1982-02-19. He is currently 30 years old, and would have been 26 4 years ago during the Marlies playoff drive.
Thank you for pointing out the mistake in Tlusty's age (correcting it in post right now). If you have any other errors you may have spotted, please let me know so I can correct it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer
I find it funny that once the whole "Marlies" argument was debunked... the Burke supporters just changed the argument all over again (surprise surprise) and said... "uh... yeah... well.. THEY WERE YOUNGER IN THE PLAYOFFS!!!!"
It really is getting out of hand.
<snip>
So not only did you just flat out change the entire argument... you also altered facts and evidence.
I didn't alter anything. The whole point was to compare the JFJ's prospect pool to Burke's prospect pool. You come up with the brilliant idea that this is best done when most of our prospects played less than half a season for the Marlies (injuries and / or playing for the Leafs). Do you not see why this is ridiculously biased?
Getting the playoffs results not only shows the true prospect pool depth, and key contributors more accurately (the Leafs were not utilizing any prospects for their championship run), but also shows who is able to step up their game when the games actually matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer
I think you may have been looking at the 2009-2010 Marlies lineup.
Tlusty - born: 1988-03-16. He is currently 24 years old. He would have been 20 years old when during the '07-'08 playoffs. Definately my mistake on this, correcting it in original post.
Harrison - born: 1982-05-07. He is currently 30 years old, and would have turned 26 4 years ago during the Marlies playoff drive.
Newbury - born: 1982-02-19. He is currently 30 years old, and would have been 26 4 years ago during the Marlies playoff drive.
Thank you for pointing out the mistake in Tlusty's age (correcting it in post right now). If you have any other errors you may have spotted, please let me know so I can correct it.
I didn't alter anything. The whole point was to compare the JFJ's prospect pool to Burke's prospect pool. You come up with the brilliant idea that this is best done when most of our prospects played less than half a season for the Marlies (injuries and / or playing for the Leafs). Do you not see why this is ridiculously biased?
Getting the playoffs results not only shows the true prospect pool depth, and key contributors more accurately (the Leafs were not utilizing any prospects for their championship run), but also shows who is able to step up their game when the games actually matter.
So first it was PROOF that Burke had excellent prospects because the marlies had such a great season.
When we show that Ferguson's also had an excellent season, it was no longer seen as proof of good prospects.
Even though the ages were pretty similar.
So now, in order to manipulate facts to make Burke appear as a good GM... leaf fans have said (and i paraphrase) "Ok, never mind regular season. Nevermind the 82 game sample size. That proved us wrong, so we now no longer consider that as good evidence. It was GREAT evidence when we thought we were right... but now that we're proven wrong, it doesn't count as good evidence anymore..."
"NOW, we're going to look at the like 15 game sample size of the playoffs. THEY WON ONE MORE ROUND and added a couple of younger players. That 15 game sample size (not he 82 games... nope.. not that) is what now PROVES our theory right."
Out of control.
This has gotten completely out of control.
It's amazing the lengths these guys are going to ignore the obvious clear as day facts.
