Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
Point is neither should be mentioned when talking about stacked D units.
Really? Polak was on the best defensive team last yr. Not saying he's a number one d-man or anything but he is better than most give him credit for. He would be a solid 2nd pair d-man on a stacked team. He would be now if he wasn't stuck behind Stl's right handed d depth.
None of that really has anything to do with the discussion. The argument was which players would you rather build around, and Murray is a fairly easy pick right now as a better option than Klefbom. Murray projects to be the better defenseman. Trying to argue that Klefbom, being a year older, might be the better of the two right now(which is debatable) doesn't really apply.
First off Klefbom is 2 months older than Murray so as far as development is concerned they are in the same year. The only thing that distinquishes them agewise is an artificial cutoff date set for the NHL draft. As such I think the fact that Klefbom did outplay Murray in a tournament of their peers is relevent to the discussion if your claim is that Murray is better. Similarly, the fact that Klefbom was now playing top pairing in the SEL is also a factor.
Projecting defensemen is not an exact science by any stretch. It seems to me that the jury should still be out on which of these two turns out better. You may feel the odds favour Murray, and that is fine. But I don't see a big gap between the two.
People here are also ignoring comments that have come out of the local Edmonton media suggesting that the Oilers felt close to the draft that Schultz was leaning towards them. It is also perhaps reasonable to assume that had they chosen Murray that this could have impacted that decision. Personally, I don't think it would, but it does seem clear that the Oilers went into the last draft not only high on some of their own picks but also liking their chances to sign Schultz.
Justin Schultz first to second pairing defenceman
Ladislav Smid second pairing defenceman
Jeff Petry second pairing defenceman
Oscar Klefbom second pairing defenceman
Martin Marincin second pairing defenceman
David Musil second to third pairing defenceman
Martin Gernat third pairing defenceman
That's fine, but basing your teams future on guys that could make the NHL in 5 years isn't gonna do much good for you (unless you intended to draft at the top a few more times)
That's fine, but basing your teams future on guys that could make the NHL in 5 years isn't gonna do much good for you (unless you intended to draft at the top a few more times)
Aside from possibly Gernat, which of these players is 5 years away from possibly making the NHL?
Look around CBJ's defensive corps. Tyutin is a pretty good all-around defenceman, Nikitin played awesome hockey last season either, both are seriously underrated on HF. FWIW their advanced stats are amazing. At a fair price, I'm sure Columbus will be listening for a trade that would likely make both team better.
The Detroit Lions took WRs because Matt Millen felt they were a few playmakers away from being a competitive team. If they had taken BPA picks (o-line, d-line) over the flashier WRs, they would have had the foundation for a great team.
LOL, no. They took Matt Millens percieved best player availible. Now, Millen obviously had been hit in the head one too many times, but the lure of glamour positions trumped anything when it came to picking in the first round in what is possibly the greatest failure in NFL draft history. If Millen wanted playmakers, as you say, there is a laundry list of completely defined definitions of playmakers he could have taken. He chose to focus on one position and one position only, similar to what the Oilers have done without worry about shoring up obvious needs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer
The Green Bay Packers took Aaron Rodgers in the first round when they already had future HOFer Brett Favre.
Wow, really? The same HOF'er who was starting to break down? I dont blame them for taking Rodgers who learned under Favre. This doesnt make sense at all and was GB being proactive in the truth that Favre was almost done, in their eyes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer
The New York Giants took JPP in the first round when they already had Tuck, Umenyiora, etc...
But not with the first pick overall, which is the one trump card that the Oilers have had for the last three years. I have no problem with a team going BPA when they are 15 picks in, but to have the luxury of picking first for three years in a row, you have to fill in the blanks and make it count. The jury is still out for the Oilers in that reguard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer
Good teams always take BPA at the top of the draft or trade down. The Oilers actually handled the three 1st overalls perfectly - take the BPA every time or trade out. You can disagree with it if you want, but most professional scouts had the players they picked ranked #1. As an Oiler fan, I have no problem whatsoever with they way they picked. In fact, if they had forgone BPA to pick for need, I would have been very angry.
I have always said they should have traded out of that pick, but thats just me. The Oilers will score a bunch of goals and have a bunch more scored on them. Thats my opinion until proven otherwise. They had the chance to take advantage of being so bad for so long they could have bilked a GM into giving up a kings randsom for the first overall last year and chose to add another scorer just for the sake of taking PBA. Thats LOL worthy to me, but time will prove whom is correct.
Haven't read through it yet, but I'm curious to see how many Coyotes fans are kidding themselves into thinking Yandle is worth one of Edmonton's forwards.
I'm sure if you package MPS with Gagner, maybe throw in a 3rd round pick, St Louis would be happy to give you Alex Pietrangelo, or Pheonix would send you Yandle (if he meets your standards of #1D).
You really know nothing, do you? Change MPS and Gagner to Schultz and Eberle, and St.Louis still says no.
Look around CBJ's defensive corps. Tyutin is a pretty good all-around defenceman, Nikitin played awesome hockey last season either, both are seriously underrated on HF. FWIW their advanced stats are amazing. At a fair price, I'm sure Columbus will be listening for a trade that would likely make both team better.
My 2 cents...
I see you two and raise you two:
1) As they are both very underrated even before one considers the "herp derp colombus lol" factor, it is unlikely anyone would even briefly consider them. (My prediction is that for the remainder of their careers here, much like other guys like Nash, Hejda, and Klesla and even Umberger at times, they're going to be "yeah columbus sucks but those guys are actually decent players" to fans in the Central Division and "lol colombus fail herp derp" to everybody else.)
2) We are acutely aware of what we have with that duo and have absolutely zero interest in breaking it up at any price that's within three or four standard deviations of "fair". Even with all the guys in the minors.
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Remember - when you're a hockey fan, it's not "reckless driving", it's "good forechecking".
"Viqsi, you are our sweet humanist..." --mt-svk on the CBJ boards
Thanks, Howson, for cleaning up MacLean's toxic waste. Welcome, Kekalainen; let's get good things built!
Smid was a +4, with 15 pts on a 29th place team. He played the tough minutes, and was on the ice against the best the opposing team had. Check out his Corsi before going any further. At least I didn't try to convince anyone that Smid is 1st pairing D. He is a very effective defensive D that is perfect in the 3/4 role.
In my opionion, OEL, and especially Yandle are extremely overrated. Please don't talk to me about 22-25 year old D's that haven't even made the NHL like Runblad or Polak.
Do you care to tell me your team. I want to hear it from you!
But yet you easily say Schultz will be in the NHL next year racking up points?? LOL
But yet you easily say Schultz will be in the NHL next year racking up points?? LOL
Oh, that's nothing. The real bonus that makes this guy ranting about "credibility" so uproariously funny is that Polak is 26 (outside of that claimed age range) and has played 304 NHL games. He's been a STL regular for four seasons now.
That took me about five seconds to look up. Tells you something about priorities when posting, doesn't it?
If us Jackets fans judged our blueliners and blueline prospects by the same standards as some of the embarassingly insane Oil fans here, then we'd be talking about us having the best blueline in the history of hockey in one or two years.
EDIT: Disclaimer: Please note the "some of" in re: certain Oil fans. I'm quite aware that there are many, many Oil fans of the non-insane variety.
That's fine, but basing your teams future on guys that could make the NHL in 5 years isn't gonna do much good for you (unless you intended to draft at the top a few more times)
Schultz and Klefbom will be NHL ready next year.
Musil and Marincin probably the following.
You are right in that Gernat is a project, but these guys aren't 5 years away, they are close.
I want to see if any other Edmonton fans agree with you.
As a completely biased Oil fan I'd say Klefbom has higher upside, is currently playing at a higher level (or was up until his injury), and despite being a draft year apart is only 2 months and 1 week older. I'd say Murray has better vision and positioning, but Klefbom has the bigger tool box. Size, physicality, shot, stick (in terms of reach/poke-check). Skating would be equal between the two IMO.
Pretty even, would be glad to have either one, and in the end it comes down to which style you prefer or fills your team needs. For CBJ, Murray is a better fit because he compliments JMFJ better. For the Oil, Klefbom will be a better compliment to Schultz than a guy like Murray (too soft of a pairing).
I'm sure this will cue screams of "just another Oiler fan overrating their prospects," but the current credentials for Klefbom stand up to the praise. We will see both at the WJC soon enough, which will serve as a fine platform to continue the debate.
do not let Blues or Coyotes fans see this post.
