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Ryan O'Reilly Vs Jaden Schwartz + Roman Polak

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Old
10-30-2012, 11:10 PM
  #26
letmesleep
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Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
You go with whomever you feel is the best player on either side.

Blues would rather keep Schwartz because they already have good 2-way players but don't currently have a 70+ healthy point producer which Schwartz might be.

Avs rather go with O'Reilly because he's the more proven of the two talents and it's an necessary risk.
Actually, if it was just Schwartz for O'Reilly, I think I'd make the deal. I just don't think the difference is worth Polak.

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10-30-2012, 11:21 PM
  #27
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Polak is severely underrated. He is just a damn good player and strong as an ox.

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Old
10-30-2012, 11:47 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by letmesleep View Post
Actually, if it was just Schwartz for O'Reilly, I think I'd make the deal. I just don't think the difference is worth Polak.
Agreed. If it was Schwartz for RoR straight up, I would make the deal as well.

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10-30-2012, 11:51 PM
  #29
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I can definitely see O'Reilly contend for the Selke year in and out in the future, the only problem is he plays on the same team as Landeskog who is almost as good as defensively but more hyped. Very surprised that he was named captain over O'Reilly but I guess it was because of contract talks

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10-30-2012, 11:52 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Zandar View Post
Jaden is a very good player but guys like Ryan win you cups.
Same with guys like Polak

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10-30-2012, 11:56 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by The Inglorious One View Post
Agreed. If it was Schwartz for RoR straight up, I would make the deal as well.
Undoubtedly. The Avs would be out of their minds though to trade someone like O'Reilly though for a prospect like Schwartz, no matter how good. I don't think there is any deal to be made here. Avs would not even accept the OP, and Blues fans clearly want to hang on to Polak and Schwartz.

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10-30-2012, 11:59 PM
  #32
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Agreed. If it was Schwartz for RoR straight up, I would make the deal as well.
That is aboustely terrible for us then.

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10-31-2012, 12:35 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Undoubtedly. The Avs would be out of their minds though to trade someone like O'Reilly though for a prospect like Schwartz, no matter how good. I don't think there is any deal to be made here. Avs would not even accept the OP, and Blues fans clearly want to hang on to Polak and Schwartz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
That is aboustely terrible for us then.
No there isn't a deal to be made here agreed. I wouldn't accept the deal for just Schwartz if I was the Avs either.

Is fun to think about fantasy deals like these though, especially when the value is decent.

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10-31-2012, 12:58 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by The Inglorious One View Post
No there isn't a deal to be made here agreed. I wouldn't accept the deal for just Schwartz if I was the Avs either.

Is fun to think about fantasy deals like these though, especially when the value is decent.
I was trying to be polite. The value from the Avs is not close at all. This fills zero needs and we have zero interest. There is nothing to discuss.

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10-31-2012, 01:03 AM
  #35
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10-31-2012, 01:06 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
I was trying to be polite. The value from the Avs is not close at all. This fills zero needs and we have zero interest. There is nothing to discuss.
Fair enough.

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10-31-2012, 06:08 AM
  #37
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Both teams are better of keeping their own players in this one, I like the return but Polak is important to our d and Jaden is looking like hell become a very solid NHLer. Imo we need a partner for Petro more than a center as Backes, Berglund, Steen, Sobotka/Nicol can handle the job just fine.

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10-31-2012, 06:30 AM
  #38
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One of the few trades I'd take as a Blues fan... Avs wouldn't do it tho

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10-31-2012, 06:56 AM
  #39
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Think of how you guys value Backes, now apply that value to O'Reilly. Do you trade Backes for Schwartz + Polak's equivalent on another team?

O'Reilly is steadily improving each year and I don't see it being a far cry to compare him to Backes in most aspects of their games (minus physicality, but we've got the two-headed monster of Lando + ROR, so Landeskog brings the pain).

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10-31-2012, 07:13 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Think of how you guys value Backes, now apply that value to O'Reilly. Do you trade Backes for Schwartz + Polak's equivalent on another team?

O'Reilly is steadily improving each year and I don't see it being a far cry to compare him to Backes in most aspects of their games (minus physicality, but we've got the two-headed monster of Lando + ROR, so Landeskog brings the pain).
Backes is our captain, and a consistent two way player for years. O'Reilly is a player who has had one good season, it's not exactly the same. I understand that O'Reilly is valuable to the avs, but not as much as Backes.

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10-31-2012, 07:27 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by fst6 View Post
Backes is our captain, and a consistent two way player for years. O'Reilly is a player who has had one good season, it's not exactly the same. I understand that O'Reilly is valuable to the avs, but not as much as Backes.
Our expectations of him in the future is much like how you see Backes now. O'Reilly is still much younger, but he's already demonstrated the ability to play defensive hockey at the level of Backes and shows much promise offensively.

To trade him for less would be foolish for us. I'm sure you can understand that viewpoint, just as if St. Louis let Backes go to Vancouver before he fully matured into the player he is today.

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10-31-2012, 08:03 AM
  #42
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When I posted this, all I cared about was value and I tried to take everything into consideration.

O'Reilly could very likely become a ''Backes'' type of guy but he's hasn't proven it on the long run yet so his value can't be considered at that same level.

Schwartz has some pretty good potential and a very high hockey IQ. Some are concerned with his size but I'm pretty confident this guy can put up 60+ points per year.

This is pretty much why I included Polak in there, as Schwartz, even though he has a higher ceiling in terms of production, isn't there yet and O'Reilly has soo many other intangibles.

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10-31-2012, 08:23 AM
  #43
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O'Reilly isn't as big or strong as Backes but is a better playmaker imo. The intensity, leadership, work ethic and all-around game is similar. I'd agree he needs a few more years before he can be compared to Backes though. I don't think any Avs fan would say O'Reilly is a better player than Backes right at this moment...Backes, when you take into account everything he brings, is an elite player. The arguement is simply that ROR is going to have that kind of value to our franchise moving forward.

That said, I'd say value wise, there's nothing wrong with this package even if 99.9% of us Avs fans would politely decline. In fact, who knows - JS could develop into such a dynamic player that 5 years from now, the Blues wouldn't even consider this. And Polak is an outstanding and underrated defensive defenseman. But we know we have a rare gem in ROR.

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10-31-2012, 08:26 AM
  #44
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I like this deal, but the Blues can't afford to trade defensemen right now. Can we hold for a year or two until Haakanpaa or Ponich is ready for that spot? Please?

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10-31-2012, 08:55 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Our expectations of him in the future is much like how you see Backes now. O'Reilly is still much younger, but he's already demonstrated the ability to play defensive hockey at the level of Backes and shows much promise offensively.

To trade him for less would be foolish for us. I'm sure you can understand that viewpoint, just as if St. Louis let Backes go to Vancouver before he fully matured into the player he is today.
Also, IMO O'Reilly's trade value goes down just because of the amount of centers in Colorado.

I'm not saying the original trade is something the avs should accept, it's just not as ridiculous as some fans are saying it is.

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10-31-2012, 09:13 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by fst6 View Post
Also, IMO O'Reilly's trade value goes down just because of the amount of centers in Colorado.

I'm not saying the original trade is something the avs should accept, it's just not as ridiculous as some fans are saying it is.
Was Staal's value lower because Pittsburgh had a lot of centers?

We're not trying to be ridiculous. This is pretty relaxed for Avs fans considering what we've been offered before. We're just not inclined to agree to a trade in which we feel we're taking on a lot of risk when we've got a known asset in O'Reilly that is progressing very well, has chemistry with our Captain and looks like a future Selke winner.

We're talking about a 21 year old 3rd year center that led the league in takeaways, takeaways to giveaways ratio, was 27th in faceoff percentage while being 10th in overall taken. He led our team in points and was pretty consistently a threat offensively for most of the season.

While I'm not telling you that objectively another team should pay for him as if he were at Backes' level, I'm telling you we shouldn't trade him for anything less because we'd probably lose the trade. Schwartz + Polak is a nice package, but there's really very little in the league that would interest us in trading O'Reilly. So it's not a slight on the Blues players involved, it's our overall opinion of O'Reilly that makes it an easy no for Avs fans.

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10-31-2012, 09:40 AM
  #47
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Value is there, O'Reilly is just one of those untouchables.

Schwartz is very important to our future with McDonald being near the end, and Polak is very under-appreciated around here, so even though O'Reilly would fit like a glove, it is still tough to go through with. If we at least had a decent replacement for Polak, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

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10-31-2012, 10:02 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Was Staal's value lower because Pittsburgh had a lot of centers?

We're not trying to be ridiculous. This is pretty relaxed for Avs fans considering what we've been offered before. We're just not inclined to agree to a trade in which we feel we're taking on a lot of risk when we've got a known asset in O'Reilly that is progressing very well, has chemistry with our Captain and looks like a future Selke winner.

We're talking about a 21 year old 3rd year center that led the league in takeaways, takeaways to giveaways ratio, was 27th in faceoff percentage while being 10th in overall taken. He led our team in points and was pretty consistently a threat offensively for most of the season.

While I'm not telling you that objectively another team should pay for him as if he were at Backes' level, I'm telling you we shouldn't trade him for anything less because we'd probably lose the trade. Schwartz + Polak is a nice package, but there's really very little in the league that would interest us in trading O'Reilly. So it's not a slight on the Blues players involved, it's our overall opinion of O'Reilly that makes it an easy no for Avs fans.
Yeah, I would say Staal would have brought in more had he been their top centre...

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Old
10-31-2012, 10:05 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by fst6 View Post
Yeah, I would say Staal would have brought in more had he been their top centre...
O'Reilly is 3rd on our depth chart.

Stastny - Duchene - O'Reilly - Mitchell

But just like Staal, received top 6 minutes due to his performance. Stastny is still the best center on our team.

Also, if I'm coming off rude I apologize. I'm just bored at work and looking for a good discussion to be honest.

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10-31-2012, 10:07 AM
  #50
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For discussion sake, what center is most available and what would it take?

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