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Old
10-31-2012, 07:02 AM
  #126
Dreakmur
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With one of the few playmaking winger, it only makes sense that we'll seelect goalscoring center Mike Bullard.

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10-31-2012, 07:44 AM
  #127
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Here now, we should really have the clock stopped over night. My turn to pick came when I was asleep. When I last checked this last night I figured I'd be okay to wait and pick until this morning.

In any event I select with my 4th round pick, Right Winger Fred Glover.



Though he didn't make much of an impact in the NHL Glover was a tremendous player in the AHL. He retired with 1337 points in 1201 career games played.

Next has been pmed.

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10-31-2012, 08:01 AM
  #128
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Kent Douglas, D


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10-31-2012, 08:56 AM
  #129
Mike Farkas
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I was thinking about both Bullard and Douglas. With Bullard, I know him to be a very selfish, one-dimensional player, who just seemed to be able to do whatever he wanted on a team submerged in losses. Though, his peak goal-scoring has to be among the best left. One thing that surprised me about Bullard is that he actually had a desire to play, which you wouldn't have really guessed. He played in Germany for a long time in their top league into his 40's...

Douglas was my sure pick for the 2nd round, until I realized his All-Star game appearances were just because he was a Maple Leaf and then I saw all the bad press he got...I've never seen a player yet with such bad press! Still a novice to the whole thing, but I was surprised and it steered me away from picking him because I thought it would come out in an assassination thread or playoff series...

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10-31-2012, 09:12 AM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
I was thinking about both Bullard and Douglas. With Bullard, I know him to be a very selfish, one-dimensional player, who just seemed to be able to do whatever he wanted on a team submerged in losses. Though, his peak goal-scoring has to be among the best left. One thing that surprised me about Bullard is that he actually had a desire to play, which you wouldn't have really guessed. He played in Germany for a long time in their top league into his 40's...

Douglas was my sure pick for the 2nd round, until I realized his All-Star game appearances were just because he was a Maple Leaf and then I saw all the bad press he got...I've never seen a player yet with such bad press! Still a novice to the whole thing, but I was surprised and it steered me away from picking him because I thought it would come out in an assassination thread or playoff series...
I see Kent Douglas as a defenseman version of Grant Warwick. Obviously Warwick's accolades are much more impressive and is more valuable on an all-time scale, but Douglas still earned a reputation for being a ruthless defensive defender with an offensive upside, while being an absolute force in the AHL.

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10-31-2012, 09:15 AM
  #131
Mike Farkas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
I see Kent Douglas as a defenseman version of Grant Warwick. Obviously Warwick's accolades are much more impressive and is more valuable on an all-time scale, but Douglas still earned a reputation for being a ruthless defensive defender with an offensive upside, while being an absolute force in the AHL.
Yeah, most certainly. He seems to have been regarded pretty well when he was good - if that makes any sense. More so than a lot of others (thus his high selection and consideration). That was kind of a dimly-painted portrait of him in my original post, but it wasn't done with malice. It was legitimate surprise. But if someone can find a player without flaws at this level, I guess they'd win, huh?

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10-31-2012, 09:41 AM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
I didn't like it when I first read it, but when I looked up his usage, Beauchemin has been heavily relied upon by some good teams. His TOI looks so good because he was paired with Pronger/Niedmermayer for the majority of his career. He got that much time because he was their partner, not necessarily because he is a 25 minute a night(#1) defenseman. It's still a solid pick though.
I thought he played with those guys most often, too, in which case I'd 100% agree that his TOI is not truly indicative of his ability. (except Dreakmur is saying otherwise, so I'm not sure now) Plus, his minutes in Toronto were indicative of a bad team. IMO, He has ranged from a low end #1, to a mid-grade #2 in his career, which is still nice. It's the low career GP thanks to his late start that are kinda holding him back.

He's underrated though. I took him quite late last year and no one really seemed to care about the pick either way. I, of course, thought it was great.

As for Pronger/Niedermayer, since the minutes of these three players added up to about 81, and Pronger/Niedermayer were not partners, doesn't this mean Beauchemin had to be playing about half of his ES time (at least) with one of them?

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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
The Belleville Bulls use their skipped pick to select a fast two-way player who was a clutch scorer and was actually 4th all-time in goals after the 1899 season:

C - Billy Barlow

With their other pick the Bulls will select a physical defensive defenseman who was a coaches favourite:

D - Lyle Odelein
Both good picks, I think.

Odelein is exhibit A for "tough guys who can legitimately play" at this level. I hadn't brought him up to Dreakmur yet, but I was about to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Here now, we should really have the clock stopped over night. My turn to pick came when I was asleep. When I last checked this last night I figured I'd be okay to wait and pick until this morning.

In any event I select with my 4th round pick, Right Winger Fred Glover.



Though he didn't make much of an impact in the NHL Glover was a tremendous player in the AHL. He retired with 1337 points in 1201 career games played.

Next has been pmed.
Tough guy to judge. But if you're gonna take a tough guy to judge, may as well make it a winger, where the options dry up much faster than they do at center.

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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Kent Douglas, D

I was just about to bring him up to Dreakmur. Great year as a rookie. Hard to judge the rest of his career, as he was either caught in a numbers game with the dynasty Leafs or played/partied his way into the minors a couple times (or a combination of both) but when expansion hit, he was a 26-27 minute player with the Wings. Who, admittedly, were not a good team.

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10-31-2012, 09:53 AM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
I was thinking about both Bullard and Douglas. With Bullard, I know him to be a very selfish, one-dimensional player, who just seemed to be able to do whatever he wanted on a team submerged in losses. Though, his peak goal-scoring has to be among the best left. One thing that surprised me about Bullard is that he actually had a desire to play, which you wouldn't have really guessed. He played in Germany for a long time in their top league into his 40's...
Yep, Bullard is not good defensively at all, from what we can gather. I wouldn't say he was entirely one-dimensional though... he was tough too. You're right about his goal scoring peak, but I should just add that the assists were there too, and his point scoring peak, which is more important, was also likely the best available.

We saw Bullard as being in the top of that tier of other centers coming into this draft. We were content waiting to see who was left in rounds 4-6 from that group because they were all pretty similar in all-time value. But then we had the chance to grab Prospal, and since they complement eachother well we wanted to jump at Bullard even though a few more guys in that tier (guys I only like about 95% as much as Bullard) are still bound to be available a few more rounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
I see Kent Douglas as a defenseman version of Grant Warwick. Obviously Warwick's accolades are much more impressive and is more valuable on an all-time scale, but Douglas still earned a reputation for being a ruthless defensive defender with an offensive upside, while being an absolute force in the AHL.
Can you expand on the Grant Warwick thing? I'm not understanding.

Also, with Douglas, I agree with MF that it's hard to get a good read on him. He was often in Punch's doghouse but that doesn't necessarily make one a bad player. Also, you say he was defensive, but with finishes of 3rd, 9th, 9th, 11th, 11th in points, he has a good offensive resume for the era too. if he was that all-around, why didn't he stick more?

Comparing him to Dewsbury, I think I have to say I like him better at least. Dewsbury's got similar offensive finishes - 5, 6, 8, 8, 14 - but didn't last quite as long, in a less competitive era, on teams with much lesser competition on the blueline. And wasn't as dominant in the AHL (in other words, Douglas - like Arbour and Hillman - played like he didn't belong there, Dewsbury didn't dominate like that)

So far I think the O6 defensemen drafted look like this:

Godfrey (should be a late MLD pick)
(gap deliberate)
Douglas (a good top pairing AAA defenseman - I think)
Dewsbury/Eddolls/Fogolin (OK #2 guys in the AAA)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
But if someone can find a player without flaws at this level, I guess they'd win, huh?


That's the way she goes!

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10-31-2012, 10:10 AM
  #134
seventieslord
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Round 3 comments:

John Cullen: In terms of six peak seasons, he was right there in the Bullard/Jokinen/Olczyk/etc tier for me heading into this. He has less backing it up beyond those years, but there are also good reasons for that.

Bob Lorimer: A good pick for a 2nd/3rd pairing guy. Could have likely waited a bit, but he's not going to hurt you either. He has one thing no one else at this level has - he was a #2 and #3 on two cup winners. But beyond that his career was unimpressive.

Richard Matvichuk: A solid 2nd pairing guy. A 21 minute guy for 800 games for mostly good teams. It's strange how quick he was finished though.

Joe Murphy: Not quite as prolific a scorer as the other great wingers who have been going, but not miles behind, either. There will be far worse wingers selected here to play on scoring lines by the time this is done.

Mike McEwen: If you wanted an offensive specialist, you got it! Played just 20.0 minutes a game for 700 games. But he did put up the points. Best percentages (among defensemen): 83, 79, 64, 64, 54, 52.

Antonin Stavjana: Tough guy to judge. No idea what he would have been in the NHL. Some good international experience though.

Billy Barlow: Look forward to learning more about him.

Earl Robinson: As mentioned, likely the most prolific pre-expansion scoring winger here.

Jason Pominville: As mentioned, an excellent pick; likely the best scoring winger left when he was taken. PK is a nice bonus.

Brad Stuart: A solid pick.

Mac Colville: Was not high on my list - at all - but should have been! I have him at 337 for best 6 percentage seasons, which made him the best remaining option for pre-expansion wingers after Robinson was taken, PLUS he has some glue guy skills. Solid pick that I really overlooked. I had him as a possible spare, since he can play D too. Whoops!


Last edited by seventieslord: 10-31-2012 at 10:21 AM.
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10-31-2012, 10:53 AM
  #135
Mike Farkas
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I'd post some of the newspaper articles I found while researching Douglas, but I don't want to look like I'm singling out a pick and attacking it...but there was some pretty "interesting" things said...they went into fractional points on his Calder win and one of the coaches or managers said he didn't deserve it, when he was talked about being traded the next year one of the managers said, "I don't want Toronto's rejects", he was noted for his conditioning issues...but then it also mentions that he was a student of the game that learned under Eddie Shore in the AHL and played really well there, and you guys discussed his point finishes among d-men and it sounds like he was a physical player that could play fine defense...

Personally, I started reading about him and actually typed his name into the "reply" window here to pick him...read more and erased it...read more and put him back...read more and erased him and just added his name to my "watchlist", meaning "I'm going to watch this guy get picked by someone else..."

Strange player...probably one of the predominant "yeah, but..." guys of that era...

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10-31-2012, 10:59 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Antonin Stavjana: Tough guy to judge. No idea what he would have been in the NHL. Some good international experience though.
Stavjana as an NHL would probably equal to someone like Don Sweeney or Bruce Driver.

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10-31-2012, 11:14 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I was just about to bring him up to Dreakmur. Great year as a rookie. Hard to judge the rest of his career, as he was either caught in a numbers game with the dynasty Leafs or played/partied his way into the minors a couple times (or a combination of both) but when expansion hit, he was a 26-27 minute player with the Wings. Who, admittedly, were not a good team.
If I knew he was available, he would have easily been at the top of my defenseman list coming into the draaft. I've taken him in the main draft before, so I just assumed he was long gone

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10-31-2012, 11:35 AM
  #138
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Can you expand on the Grant Warwick thing? I'm not understanding.
It's a fairly obscure comparison, I'm just saying they both had very good success in the AHL, in addition to having a reputable career in the NHL. Some in-depth research is necessary to get a better explanation on Douglas, to find out where he really stands on a larger scale.

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10-31-2012, 11:36 AM
  #139
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Stavjana as an NHL would probably equal to someone like Don Sweeney or Bruce Driver.
I'll filter that information appropriately, as you're probably higher on him than anyone here.

I've been going through his international tournaments to get a good read on him. 98 games is a pretty good total, and his international games spanned 2 seasons, which is also good. Some of those world championships, the list of defensemen to make those teams is not the least bit impressive. That is helped by the fact that he did play in two best-on-bests, but even those rosters are not that special. (Where's Petr Svoboda? You'd think he'd be a shoo-in for those rosters). I'm left mostly confused.

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10-31-2012, 12:25 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
I'd post some of the newspaper articles I found while researching Douglas, but I don't want to look like I'm singling out a pick and attacking it...but there was some pretty "interesting" things said...they went into fractional points on his Calder win and one of the coaches or managers said he didn't deserve it, when he was talked about being traded the next year one of the managers said, "I don't want Toronto's rejects", he was noted for his conditioning issues...but then it also mentions that he was a student of the game that learned under Eddie Shore in the AHL and played really well there, and you guys discussed his point finishes among d-men and it sounds like he was a physical player that could play fine defense...

Personally, I started reading about him and actually typed his name into the "reply" window here to pick him...read more and erased it...read more and put him back...read more and erased him and just added his name to my "watchlist", meaning "I'm going to watch this guy get picked by someone else..."

Strange player...probably one of the predominant "yeah, but..." guys of that era...
Hah I read that same article too. Lester Patrick definitely wasn't holding back.

I thought about Douglas a lot, but honestly what made me pass was overthinking his post-expansion record. He puts up a decent year in Detroit after they trade Hampson and a young Bert Marshall for him, but then they sell him to the minors for cash. Apparently his thirty points and defensive play were less valuable than cash and a roster spot? Or maybe that's unfair and the wheels just sharply fell off?

He's a great 'minor-leaguer' with the ups and downs, but at the very least he's got some staggering percentage scores for a defender to back up those AST votes and AHL accolades. It's not like Eddolls or Dewsbury are perfect either.

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10-31-2012, 01:05 PM
  #141
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Fort Saskatchewan selects D/C John Mayasich

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10-31-2012, 01:12 PM
  #142
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Fort Saskatchewan selects D/C John Mayasich
Thought you'd steal my spare from me early, hey?

I have always liked him but have been hesitant to make him a regular. I'm not sure if he quite has what it takes. But maybe he does. I hope you can sell him!

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10-31-2012, 01:20 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I thought he played with those guys most often, too, in which case I'd 100% agree that his TOI is not truly indicative of his ability. (except Dreakmur is saying otherwise, so I'm not sure now) Plus, his minutes in Toronto were indicative of a bad team. IMO, He has ranged from a low end #1, to a mid-grade #2 in his career, which is still nice. It's the low career GP thanks to his late start that are kinda holding him back.
I remember Beauchemin as primarily paired with Niedermayer on the Duck's top pairing at even strength. They usually got the tougher assignments.

Pronger was usually paired with an undrafted

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10-31-2012, 01:37 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Thought you'd steal my spare from me early, hey?

I have always liked him but have been hesitant to make him a regular. I'm not sure if he quite has what it takes. But maybe he does. I hope you can sell him!
I don't think it's fair that because he can play multiple positions he has to be a spare regardless of if it's the MLD or AAA level.

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10-31-2012, 01:38 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I'll filter that information appropriately, as you're probably higher on him than anyone here.

I've been going through his international tournaments to get a good read on him. 98 games is a pretty good total, and his international games spanned 2 seasons, which is also good. Some of those world championships, the list of defensemen to make those teams is not the least bit impressive. That is helped by the fact that he did play in two best-on-bests, but even those rosters are not that special. (Where's Petr Svoboda? You'd think he'd be a shoo-in for those rosters). I'm left mostly confused.
Actually Im not that high on him but I've seen him play plenty and he is underrated around here which is not an historians fault at all because there is very little information (atleast in english) about him.

I remember I was hoping that he would join the Flames though as their team would have been incredibly strong with him as a #5 after Macoun, Suter, Reinhart and Macinnis.

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10-31-2012, 01:43 PM
  #146
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The Steelers is proud to announce our fourth pick.

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He would become a constant 20 goals threat and played in 5 straight all star games from 1952 through 1956. He also became a well traveled NHLer as well, playing with the Bruins, Leafs, Hawks and Rangers back in the 6 team league.
Dave Creighton, C


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10-31-2012, 01:53 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
I don't think it's fair that because he can play multiple positions he has to be a spare regardless of if it's the MLD or AAA level.
That's not what I'm saying. The multipositionality gives him added value as a spare, but I'm just not 100% convinced his accomplishments at either position (or at both combined) warrant a spot as a regular. I'm not saying I'm 0% convinced either, mind you...

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Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
Actually Im not that high on him but I've seen him play plenty and he is underrated around here which is not an historians fault at all because there is very little information (atleast in english) about him.

I remember I was hoping that he would join the Flames though as their team would have been incredibly strong with him as a #5 after Macoun, Suter, Reinhart and Macinnis.
I figured you were higher on him than others since you were the only one to ever select him before; 200 picks earlier in last year's round of drafting.

Didn't mean it in any derisive way, but the truth about a player is often somewhere between where his biggest fans and biggest critics see him, and at least among this group of historians, you'd be the former.

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10-31-2012, 01:57 PM
  #148
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I figured you were higher on him than others since you were the only one to ever select him before; 200 picks earlier in last year's round of drafting.

Didn't mean it in any derisive way, but the truth about a player is often somewhere between where his biggest fans and biggest critics see him, and at least among this group of historians, you'd be the former.
He was actually more of Reds pick last time and if remember correctly he became very busy at the end on the MLD and never did bring any czech info on him.

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10-31-2012, 01:57 PM
  #149
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The Macon Whoopee select Hal Winkler, G


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10-31-2012, 02:11 PM
  #150
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The Barraccudas will select Alexander Semin, LW.


Last edited by seventieslord: 10-31-2012 at 02:35 PM. Reason: Mod edit: That's Semin. With an I.
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